Thomas's second way

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Bahman said:
You know very well that you are the person who decide. Unless you declare otherwise! Based on what cause? No cause. It is very you that make the decision and this shows that causality is false since it cannot explain all aspect of reality. Just show me how you could be free if causality is true. Hence any proof of God based on causality is false.
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I am free to write this right now or not write this right now. Efficient causality doesn’t explain all aspects of reality. You need to include at least the three other causes, namely, formal, material, and final.
 
Richca said:
I am free to write this right now or not write this right now. Efficient causality doesn’t explain all aspects of reality. You need to include at least the three other causes, namely, formal, material, and final.
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I was asking whether you can accommodate free will or consciousness in a causal picture?
 
Bahman said:
I was asking whether you can accommodate free will or consciousness in a causal picture?
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Yes, St Thomas taught that human beings have a free will and that the free will is a cause of free choices. Yet, the first cause of the free choices of creatures with free will is God, the creatures will is a second cause. Angels or humans cannot will anything without the causality of God who is the first efficient cause.
 
Richca said:
Yes, St Thomas taught that human beings have a free will and that the free will is a cause of free choices. Yet, the first cause of the free choices of creatures with free will is God, the creatures will is a second cause. Angels or humans cannot will anything without the causality of God who is the first efficient cause.
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Cause of free choice! Are you sure what you are talking about? There is no freedom left in a causal picture, namely one option is real and can be actualized.
 
Bahman said:
Cause of free choice! Are you sure what you are talking about? There is no freedom left in a causal picture, namely one option is real and can be actualized.
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Yes, human beings did not create their own free will, it is a gift from God who created their wills and everything else that they are and it is God who keeps them in existence every instant. Nor can humans exercise this power of will without God’s continual activity and influence. Without God, a creature would return back into non existence.
 
Richca said:
Yes, human beings did not create their own free will, it is a gift from God who created their wills and everything else that they are and it is God who keeps them in existence every instant. Nor can humans exercise this power of will without God’s continual activity and influence. Without God, a creature would return back into non existence.
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My question was how consciousness and free will could be real in a causal picture. Please read this (The Argument from Causal Exclusion).
 
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