Those Homosexual Animals

[CopticChristian]

Why are you so obsessed with homosexuality, and ways to change homosexuals? Do you have a homosexual relative or something?

Yeah, homosexuals can probably be changed. You can manipulate anyone to think differently. I’m pretty sure that if there was a therapy to turn people into coprophiles, there’d be a success rate.

At any rate, homosexuality doesn’t exist in the animal kingdom like it seems in people. I don’t believe you find animals that are exclusively homosexual, unlike people who can be. Then again, you also get people that consider themselves bisexual.

Regular,

Why do you assume anyone is obsessed, and why are you even posting…

I don’t even know why I’m posting here.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

I was just curious, is all. You do talk about homosexuality an awful lot. Most of your threads are about that topic, and you read books/papers regarding homosexuality on a regular basis, it seems.

 

[DexUK]

Dex,

You glossed over the note that much of instinct is learned.

There is no proof that Homosexuality is instinctive, so even if you prove we don’t choose our instincts, and you cannot, then you then have to prove that Homosexuality is instinctive and you cannot.

Do we choose our instincts? Good luck…

Is heterosexuality an instinct or a choice then?

 

[SweetLambs]

Most homosexual animals do not only seek males- they will happily mate with females as well. It’s an incredibly rare one that will only seek out males. In rams, usually those regularly exhibiting this type of behavior are those that were reared with minimal contact with ewes- typically these were housed in all male groups. Most rams have a very high libido. It’s also common play-dominance behavior to mount each other, but not mate.

In certain species, like goats and cattle, the females will mount each other when they are in heat. But females themselves do not really exhibit homosexual behavior.

I’ve noticed that these rams who are commonly attempting to mate with rams are simply the ones with very high libido- when presented with ewes, they will eagerly switch. If a ram will not attempt to mate with either rams or ewes, well, he’s probably going to get culled since no ewes are going to get bred.

I think that is a pretty stupid reason to try to justify the behavior in humans. Animal behavior is fascinating, but it’s not what we base our behavior on. Otherwise, we’d lick the fetal membranes off our offspring when newly delivered, men would try to kill each other over a female, and we’d be ruminating or otherwise catching and eating our prey raw.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

BZ,

Perhaps they may want to consider mounting someones leg, a fire hydrant or a garbage can as well.

Strawman. The argument that homosexuality is natural is almost always used in response to the argument that homosexuality is unnatural, and not in the situation you’ve proposed. Very rarely is it used to completely justify homosexuality.

 

[DexUK]

men would try to kill each other over a female

Well, to be fair, that’s not exactly unknown…

 

[CopticChristian]

I was just curious, is all. You do talk about homosexuality an awful lot. Most of your threads are about that topic, and you read books/papers regarding homosexuality on a regular basis, it seems.

Regular,

I bounce between Non-catholic, Moral Theology, Social Justice, Apologetics and a few others and jump in when I see threads that I have Catholic (name removed by moderator)ut for clarity.

Why are you even posting?

 

[CopticChristian]

Strawman. The argument that homosexuality is natural is almost always used in response to the argument that homosexuality is unnatural, and not in the situation you’ve proposed. Very rarely is it used to completely justify homosexuality.

Regular,

It is an attempt to establish a point on the curve and a point of logic to cause acceptance.

It occurs in the animal kingdom. It is natural.

Ok, now that I accept that, then what else must I accept as it regards humans…

 

[bzkoss236]

Regular,

It is an attempt to establish a point on the curve and a point of logic to cause acceptance.

It occurs in the animal kingdom. It is natural.

Ok, now that I accept that, then what else must I accept as it regards humans…

Basically, we are stating something that we know is a silly argument to show the others how silly it is to say that “because it happens in nature it is natural.”

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Regular,

I bounce between Non-catholic, Moral Theology, Social Justice, Apologetics and a few others and jump in when I see threads that I have Catholic (name removed by moderator)ut for clarity.

I never said homosexuality was your only interest. Rather, I said you seem to have a particular interest in it. I was just asking why that is. I wasn’t trying to suggest anything, but I wondered if you had a homosexual relative as it would explain your interest in the subject.

Why are you even posting?

A mixture of reasons. Boredom, partly, but also because, as sad as it may seem, I do believe posting on here has improved me as a person. Most of my friends and family either share my views or, if they differ, don’t discuss it much. Posting on here has not only made me much more tolerant of different opinions (I used to get annoyed when reading/hearing opinions I strongly disagreed with) but has also made me pro-life (though I didn’t have a strong opinion prior to coming on here anyway), and changed my views on ‘gay rights’.

Regular,

It is an attempt to establish a point on the curve and a point of logic to cause acceptance.

It occurs in the animal kingdom. It is natural.

Ok, now that I accept that, then what else must I accept as it regards humans…

Yes, it is natural, but natural doesn’t necessarily mean it’s moral. Like I said, it’s very rarely used to cause acceptance.

Basically, we are stating something that we know is a silly argument to show the others how silly it is to say that “because it happens in nature it is natural.”

Yes. By most people’s definition, that is true.

Natural - Existing in or caused by nature.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Homosexuality is not natural, it is learned.

If we’re talking about monkeys, then a monkey that engaged in homosexual acts probably had an effeminate monkey father, or an overbearing monkey mother. For other homosexual monkeys, it is likely that they came from a broken home… they were probably raised by their monkey mother while the father was off cavorting with other monkeys.

It is also possible that the monkeys were inappropriately touched at some point in their early development, perhaps by an uncle or some other close family member with a perverted mind. This is why the traditional monkey family must be preserved. Monkey annulment is being handed out willy nilly right now. This is certainly not as the Lord intended.

 

[CopticChristian]

I never said homosexuality was your only interest. Rather, I said you seem to have a particular interest in it. I was just asking why that is. I wasn’t trying to suggest anything, but I wondered if you had a homosexual relative as it would explain your interest in the subject.

A mixture of reasons. Boredom, partly, but also because, as sad as it may seem, I do believe posting on here has improved me as a person. Most of my friends and family either share my views or, if they differ, don’t discuss it much. Posting on here has not only made me much more tolerant of different opinions (I used to get annoyed when reading/hearing opinions I strongly disagreed with) but has also made me pro-life (though I didn’t have a strong opinion prior to coming on here anyway), and changed my views on ‘gay rights’.

Yes, it is natural, but natural doesn’t necessarily mean it’s moral. Like I said, it’s very rarely used to cause acceptance.

Yes. By most people’s definition, that is true.

Natural - Existing in or caused by nature.

Regular,

Look at some of the threads on Homosexuality

Should we Kill gays?

Which Homosexuals are incurable?

and there have been others…

This is a Catholic forum, I see these questions as denigrating and when you read the postings they go way south without any reason…

My threads are an attempt to coordinate thinking and discussion within the context of the thinking of the Church and what is known and not known…

I do not see you concerned about those aforementioned threads…

Why are you even posting?

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Regular,

Look at some of the threads on Homosexuality

Should we Kill gays?

Which Homosexuals are incurable?

and there have been others…

This is a Catholic forum, I see these questions as denigrating and when you read the postings they go way south without any reason…

My threads are an attempt to coordinate thinking and discussion within the context of the thinking of the Church and what is known and not known…

I do not see you concerned about those aforementioned threads…

Wow, mate, it was just a simple question. If you don’t want to answer, fine. No need to get all defensive. It’s just that it’s obvious from the threads you make that you follow and read up on the papers that organisations such as NARTH publish, and that you also read books published by similar authors in your spare time. You’re clearly more interested in the subject of homosexuality and things such as reparative therapy than most people. It doesn’t concern me at all.

Why are you even posting?

I told you. If you’re asking why I posted in this particular thread, it’s because I saw the name of the thread and who posted it, clicked the link, read the original post, then asked a question that I now regret asking.

 

[CopticChristian]

Wow, mate, it was just a simple question. If you don’t want to answer, fine. No need to get all defensive. It’s just that it’s obvious from the threads you make that you follow and read up on the papers that organisations such as NARTH publish, and that you also read books published by similar authors in your spare time. You’re clearly more interested in the subject of homosexuality and things such as reparative therapy than most people. It doesn’t concern me at all.

I told you. If you’re asking why I posted in this particular thread, it’s because I saw the name of the thread and who posted it, clicked the link, read the original post, then asked a question that I now regret asking.

Regular,

Perhaps if more people had interest in more things there would be less understanding.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Regular,

Perhaps if more people had interest in more things there would be less understanding.

I do believe there was a typo at some point in that sentence, so I’ll assume you meant to state that there would be more understanding of things, not less. Anyway, it’s not wrong or necessarily weird to be interested in homosexuality (or the psychology of it, anyway). I just wondered why you were so interested in it.

 

[CopticChristian]

I do believe there was a typo at some point in that sentence, so I’ll assume you meant to state that there would be more understanding of things, not less. Anyway, it’s not wrong or necessarily weird to be interested in homosexuality (or the psychology of it, anyway). I just wondered why you were so interested in it.

Regular,

So, since you are posting here and you don’t why you are posting here, as a Regular Athiest…let me ask you this…concerning Reparative Therapy…

Reparative therapy has been referred to in some circles as pray the gay away, religous as it is based on natural law…

Would you say that Reparative Therapy is religious in nature and religion has no place in the practice of medicine and treatment of individuals in any way…?

 

[mymamamary]

You assume the argument is used to justify imitating animal behaviour.

I have never heard anyone make this case (“the monkeys do it, so should we”). Generally this argument is used to counter the argument that homosexuality is unnatural.

**It can go both ways. Hence why nature shouldn’t be used to affirm or discourage anything. Reason and Logic is what is called for. **

 

[edwest2]

Animals do not have human cognition.

Peace,
Ed

 

[CopticChristian]

Animals do not have human cognition.

Peace,
Ed

Ed,

This is true. What makes humans different is that they have the ability to perform…

Self Reflective thinking…metacognition…

While it is true that animals do not have human cognition, some animals do develop some self reflective thinking and some metacognition however at best it is similar to Adolescent thinking…we don’t use adolescents as our measuring stick for behavior.

 

[edwest2]

Ed,

This is true. What makes humans different is that they have the ability to perform…

Self Reflective thinking…metacognition…

While it is true that animals do not have human cognition, some animals do develop some self reflective thinking and some metacognition however at best it is similar to Adolescent thinking…we don’t use adolescents as our measuring stick for behavior.

And when animals, from dogs to bears, assault or maul humans, we don’t put them in jail.

Peace,
Ed