Those Homosexual Animals

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CopticChristian said:
New,

All people are born…when they are 6 months old, no one would refer to them as homosexual that I know of…so when this is determined is up in the air.
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Read my post again…carefully. What I mean is that all people are born to a biological mother and a biological father; All people includes homosexual people. That is my point, nothing more, nothing less. 🙂
Ridgerunner said:
Let me make a small correction here. There actually is a biological purpose to what, to us, may APPEAR to be homosexual activity among animals that has nothing to do with population pressures.

I have raised thousands of animals, mostly cattle (though other herd animals do the same thing). Cattle frequently do what is commonly referred to as 'bulling". Females will mount other females that are in heat. The behavior immediately attracts the attention of the herd bull or bulls who are instinctively programmed to react to that visual and go breed the mounted animal. Bulls, you see, don’t keep track. They breed on the basis of visual cues like “bulling” and on scent. Based on the movement alone, they think they have a rival bull trying to breed their herd and go tend to their duty.

So it’s likely that some animal behaviors that some think are “homosexual” are actually part of the complex of biological cues that lead to normal breeding among animals.

As I said, I have raised thousands of animals in my time and have never seen anything that appeared to be “homosexual” behavior in the human sense. Never.
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As a veterinarian, I’ll confirm your observations and conclusions. 👍
DrTaffy said:
Again, the only relevance of this is that the argument that homosexuality is ‘unnatural’ fails, amongst other reasons, because homosexuality occurs in nature, which for most people rules out it’s being unnatural.
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Again, you’re taking an act between two animals of the same sex and calling it homosexuality. It isn’t the equivalent of homosexuality in people; many male animals would breed with a knothole in the fence if steered in that direction. The assertion that “homosexuality occurs in nature” is simplistic and unfounded.

All acts of “animal sex” are driven by an instinct to reproduce, not as simply pleasurable. Yep, they get it wrong on rare occasions, but “homosexuality” implies that in the case of the one being “bred”, that they desire such an act. Not the case; they tolerate it.
 
Newbie2 said:
That is my point, nothing more, nothing less. 🙂

As a veterinarian, I’ll confirm your observations and conclusions. 👍

Again, you’re taking an act between two animals of the same sex and calling it homosexuality. It isn’t the equivalent of homosexuality in people; many male animals would breed with a knothole in the fence if steered in that direction. The assertion that “homosexuality occurs in nature” is simplistic and unfounded.

All acts of “animal sex” are driven by an instinct to reproduce, not as simply pleasurable. Yep, they get it wrong on rare occasions, but “homosexuality” implies that in the case of the one being “bred”, that they desire such an act. Not the case; they tolerate it.
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New,

I did…and I understand…
Read my post again…carefully. What I mean is that all people are born to a biological mother and a biological father; All people includes homosexual people.
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I ask you to understand this,

All homosexuals are born to heterosexual parents.

This statement lacks clarity. Someone reading this in context or out of context may surmise other than that statement.

All homosexuals are born to heterosexual parents. When that homosexual person is born the heterosexual parents love that child not knowing that the child is a homosexual.

All homosexuals are born to heterosexual parents. When that child is born the heterosexual parents love that child that is a homosexual child.

All homosexauls are born to heterosexual parents. When that child is born the heterosexual parents love that child even when the child grows up and declares itself to be homosexual.

When you make mention of heterosexual parents in the same sentence as homosexual it leaves the mind to conjour up different meanings.

Try this.

A person that identifies as homosexual was born to parents that were in all likelyhood heterosexual.

This statement does not in any way suggest that the child was born homosexual.

Do you understand?
 
You didn’t read carefully enough. Try again.

Hint, the key is the smilie.

It is tongue-in-cheek. 😃
 
Fun fact: Humans are animals.

I know, thats a scary concept for Catholics, isn’t it?
 
Gaerteuth said:
Fun fact: Humans are animals.

I know, thats a scary concept for Catholics, isn’t it?
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Well, that depends on which Catholic you believe you are trying to scare. You and others may be familiar with books like…

So Human an Animal…

and other’s like it…

I like to think of myself as a creature, having been created and in that vain we are very much like animals…with the exception that as a human animal we have the ability to…

Self Reflective think
Metacognition

and animals in the lower forms do not. They function at best at an adolescent level of thinking and that is why you see animals…

eating their feces
spitting at others
forming harems
not united in marriage
acting homosexual
killing their young
killing their spouse

so humans have the ability to reason, self reflect and metacognate that differentiates us from lower forms although there are some humans that want us to resort to animal behavior like those that promote the notion of homosexuality being natural, believing that epigenitics proves the fallacy of Essentialism=Born that way…that is not true.😃
 
Gaerteuth said:
Fun fact: Humans are animals.

I know, thats a scary concept for Catholics, isn’t it?
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And the reason atheists keep saying bestial marriage is a whacky concept is ironic, they keep reiterating “but marriage is only between two humans!”

Well, which is it?
 
CopticChristian said:
so humans have the ability to reason, self reflect and metacognate that differentiates us from lower forms although there are some humans that want us to resort to animal behavior like those that promote the notion of homosexuality being natural, believing that epigenitics proves the fallacy of Essentialism=Born that way…that is not true.😃
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Why do you think humans are so good and smart? We are smart animals. That doesn’t make us any less of an animal- I mean there are birds that know how to solve complex puzzles at the 8 year old child level. You’re just being arrogant about your own species.

And how exactly is “Born that way” a fallacy?
 
PetrusRomanus said:
And the reason atheists keep saying bestial marriage is a whacky concept is ironic, they keep reiterating “but marriage is only between two humans!”

Well, which is it?
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That’s a disgusting twist of what they’re saying.

Humans are a -species- of animal.

If you demonstrated that you know how species work- don’t get me wrong- you would know that they’re referring to the human race.

Dogs are animals. Cats are animals. That doesn’t mean the two are the same species. It means they’re of the same kingdom.

Go educate yourself more about zoology before you make such a crass and misinformed statement.
 
Gaerteuth said:
Why do you think humans are so good and smart? We are smart animals. That doesn’t make us any less of an animal- I mean there are birds that know how to solve complex puzzles at the 8 year old child level. You’re just being arrogant about your own species.

And how exactly is “Born that way” a fallacy?
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Are you serious? Name one bird that has written poetry, designed a philosophical proof, worshiped God.
 
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Gaerteuth:
Why do you think humans are so good and smart? We are smart animals. That doesn’t make us any less of an animal- I mean there are birds that know how to solve complex puzzles at the 8 year old child level. You’re just being arrogant about your own species.
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I am uninclined to promote and use behavior of an 8 year old as the model of behavior. Adolescent behavior is the best we can expect from animals and that would include homosexual behavior. We adults, with children, do not look to adolescents to model our behavior, we correct adolescent behavior.
And how exactly is “Born that way” a fallacy?
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Essentialism=Born That Way has not yet been proven to be true and if not proven to be true then it remains a fallacy, not true, is that exact enough for you?
 
No gay gene has been found.

What has been found is early childhood trauma, absent father, and feminizing mothers all contribute. Thus a male does not fully express his masculinity. Conversion therapy helps those that desire to maximize their masculine expression to do so. We need to quit the PC attitude and put some research dollars into helping this occur to those who want it.
 
buffalo said:
No gay gene has been found.

What has been found is early childhood trauma, absent father, and feminizing mothers all contribute. Thus a male does not fully express his masculinity. Conversion therapy helps those that desire to maximize their masculine expression to do so. We need to quit the PC attitude and put some research dollars into helping this occur to those who want it.
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Essentialism=Born That Way=Fallacy…and clinging to theories rather than fact causes this to remain fantasy…as seen here for those that cling to Epigentics that is only theory not fact…

mygenes.co.nz/epigenetics.htm
Is epigenetics a critical factor in homosexuality?
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N.E.Whitehead, Ph.D
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December 2012
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A paper by epigenetic researchers (Rice, W.R., Friberg, U. Gavrilets, 2012) has been generally reported as being a new explanation of homosexuality. My conclusion, in accordance with that of the authors, is that this is a theory only.
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Their theory, reflected in the title of their paper, Homosexuality as a consequence of epigenetically canalized sexual development, is that prenatal epigenetics causes a “canalization” (chanelling) to heterosexuality and also to homosexuality. This is a misleading title for the paper because it predominantly discusses what they believe to be a strong epigenetic influence on sexual differentiation in the genitalia of the two sexes. From this basis they theorise epigenetics must also have a predominant role in homosexuality.
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As pointed out in My Genes Made Me Do It! Chapter 1, known congenital malformations which are epigenetic in origin occur much less frequently in the population than homosexuality. If the prevalence of these malformations is typical of epigenetic processes, this is a numerical argument that same sex attraction is not primarily caused by prenatal epigenetics.
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If it is unlikely that epigenetic influences are predominant in the development of physically
dimorphic gender features, i.e., male and female genitalia, then sexual orientation –a much more subtle feature of sexuality – is likely to be even less affected by epigenetics.
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The paper brings together a wide range of knowledge from many fields, and establishes a possible role for epigenetics. But firm results are needed from eager researchers in those fields before it can be said that epigenetics has anywhere near a predominant role in male/female differentiation, let alone sexual orientation. In my view this paper risks joining the many other efforts to show a powerful biological causality in homosexuality, all of which have failed.
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Nice try, but no cigar…:hey_bud:
 
Natural law, as founded by Saint Thomas Aquinas, only applies to beings capable of reason. So while there is no grievance against animals who participate in those type of activities, humans should not follow suit.

However, being gay is not a sin by itself. Pope John Paul II said that they are to be treated as all otheras are. It is only a problem when actions are committed upon the thoughts.
 
Joko2599 said:
Natural law, as founded by Saint Thomas Aquinas, only applies to beings capable of reason. So while there is no grievance against animals who participate in those type of activities, humans should not follow suit.

However, being gay is not a sin by itself. Pope John Paul II said that they are to be treated as all otheras are. It is only a problem when actions are committed upon the thoughts.
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People today reading an interpreting documents and statements from Popes and other men often say that “we must remember the context of the time and what influenced such statements.”

I suspect–if my novice education in biology serves me correct in biological problem solving–that a century or more from now Catholics will be forced to defend those comments about homosexuality by stating, “You must remember that period widely believed in the heritability of homosexuality.”

The current Church comments about homosexuality are political comments in “the art of what is possible” to reconcile the widely held view of the genetic determinism of homosexuality. And I doubt anyone can persuasively argue otherwise.

Some in the life sciences have sought to explain why some adults are pedophiles in what they are sexually attracted to. Not surprisingly, some have hypothesized the genetically deterministic trait of this too.

I’m not sure how “spiritual” I find the Church teaching on homosexuality if it is simply one ad hoc after another to protect a rule. The teaching seems little on emphasis of grace and doubtful or schizophrenic about the existence of free will. It has not completely denied free will but has inched closer to that as its theologians often not trained in the life science, cower to the popular beliefs of determinism.

I like your first paragraph though and learned something philosophical I did not know.
 
fix said:
Are you serious? Name one bird that has written poetry, designed a philosophical proof, worshiped God.
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Humans are smart animals.

Birds are dumb animals.

Both are animals.

Get it?
 
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