F
fix
Guest
Cannot you not admit animals do not have the ability to reason and never will?
- Status
D
Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Your argument appears to be that animals can not reason because they are not human which is rather arbitrary. To answer the question of “can the reason?” requires a discussion on reason itself as we have to define the term.
An example of the possibility of reason is that researcher managed to teach capuchin monkeys the concept of money not just the sue of it.
F
fix
Guest
Are you serious?
I think it is self evident. Animals cannot reason as humans. They never have and never will. Again self evident.
That is not evidence animals can reason in any advanced and human way.
G
Gaerteuth
Guest
What his point is is that you’re trying to say that rationality and souls are intertwined.
By your logic, a human vegetable doesn’t have a soul because it cannot be rational.
So unless you’re comfortable with the idea that human vegetables and birds are the same thing spiritually (which you would get metaphorically crucified for on this forum), your arguments are starting to lose their hold.
F
fix
Guest
I cannot believe I am arguing with sane people about the differences between humans and animals. Animals do not have immortal souls. Animals do not have rational souls. Animals do not have the dignity that humans have. Jesus did not die for animals.
What on earth is your point?
F
fix
Guest
Lets us go to the CCC for some help:
Of all visible creatures only man is “able to know and love his creator”.219 He is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake”,220 and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God’s own life. It was for this end that he was created, and this is the fundamental reason for his dignity
Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead.
In Sacred Scripture the term “soul” often refers to human life or the entire human person.230 But “soul” also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,231 that by which he is most especially in God’s image: “soul” signifies the spiritual principle in man.
Of all visible creatures only man is “able to know and love his creator”.219 He is “the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake”,220 and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God’s own life. It was for this end that he was created, and this is the fundamental reason for his dignity
Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead.
In Sacred Scripture the term “soul” often refers to human life or the entire human person.230 But “soul” also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,231 that by which he is most especially in God’s image: “soul” signifies the spiritual principle in man.
E
epan
Guest
Whatever gave you that idea? Even a crow can make a tool and solve a puzzle. Octopuses are well known as puzzle solvers. Primates, clearly reason. There are many examples. Personally, I have even seen a particularly intelligent Siamese cat solve a tactics problem when dealing with another cat.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Perhaps it would be best to look at animals and humans from the stadnpoint of what humans do well, like no other…
Metacognition
Self Reflective thinking
Humans can think about their thinking until they can’t do it anymore or get bored
animals cannot
Some animals can metacognate but in a limited fashion thus…
Humans can think…wow that thing over there sexually attracts me
Wow…that thing is like me…How do I feel about that?
Well let me think about that…should I or should I not?
Well, let me see if I do this, then that, if I do that then this…
Now let me imagine for an instant in the future as I look back at what I think now, knowing how I thought back when about that and now knowing what I want to do and should do…
well then…maybe not such a good idea…
animals cannot do that…
E
epan
Guest
OK, since you have apparently been in the mind of a monkey, tell us about it, now that you have shared your own thoughts. Apparently, you have some insight which not only defies the what is known about primates who have acquired language, but you also know exactly what animals think, which is unknown by anyone else.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
This indicates that you have read what has been posted and have reached some sort of agreement…
This is conjecture and fallacious and somewhat sarcastic indicating that you have read what was posted, thought about it, formed an opinion based on some experience and made a statement…
You want something in return for your communication that was previously noted and ask for insight that may or may not be an honest request based on the sarcasm however in the context of asking for sharing of something that is thought by someone else, in particularly mine noting that I had thoughts, as you say and you appear to have understood or registered them then you do want to hear more…
You note some information that you chose not to share in context that is difficult to understand since earlier you asked me to share my thoughts and you choose not to share yours. This does not indicate fair play. What this has to do with metacognition is not clear and only you know…
In light of what I just posted, what animal, can what I just did in responding to your post…
and by the way, here are some thoughts about metacognition for all to read…
sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090914172644.htm
faculty.philosophy.umd.edu/pcarruthers/Meta-cognition.pdf
web.williams.edu/Psychology/Faculty/Kornell/Publications/Kornell.2009a.pdf
Share with all what you believe that primate acquisition of knowledge has to do with metacognition and its relationship to homosexuality in the context of this thread.
F
fix
Guest
The obvious is so obvious.
F
fix
Guest
They cannot reason like humans and never will. Why all the obfuscation and pedantic parsing?
F
fix
Guest
That anyone would attempt to claim animals have an intellect and will like a human pretty much speaks for itself.Pedantic parsing is part of discernment that allows egress from obfuscation
- Status