Those who Abstain on Fridays

[puzzleannie]

I’m considering abstaining from meat on Fridays (not during Lent, but every Friday, all year), but I’d like to know a bit more about it really. I
…
Anyway, I’m curious to hear from those who already DO abstain. WHY do you do it (in your own words)? Do you do it all year or just for certain amounts of time? What is the history behind this particular practice (I kind of already know but humor me and explain it in your own words - sometimes things don’t click in my head until they’re explained in just that right way .

well you will just get personal experience and opinion here

we generally abstain from meat on Fridays of the year because we were brought up that way and, just as you tend to prefer the kind of food and cooking you had growing up, so with this. We also like fish, and DH is mostly vegetarian in any case.

The reason your RCIA people are a bit negative on this topic are for what I just described. A penitential practice done out of habit and/or personal preference has lost its penitential character.

the “devotion” is called “an act of penance” that is any action we do that gives up something pleasurable, or undertakes an action for someone else, with the specific intent to unite that tiny suffering to Christ’s in atonement for our sins. Yes Christ wiped away our sin but we recognize that gratitude for that act of love requires a response, and this is one response. It used to be mandated under pain of sin, and wiser heads realize a penance done solely for this reason is not very beneficial to spiritual growth or to the spirit of penance, so the discipline changed.

Now Friday is still a day of penance in recognition of Christ’s sacrifice on Good Friday, but the individual Christian is urged to pray and meditate on the passion (by praying the sorrowful mysteries of the rosary is one way, not the only way) and to shoose some act that reinforces that spirit of gratitude and union with Christ suffering. Acts of mercy toward the poor are especially helpful in this as it helps us see Christ in them.

 

[JimG]

It does come up over and over again, precisely because of what the bishops’ conference stated in its document Pastoral Statement on Penance and Abstinence

"24. Among the works of voluntary self-denial and personal penance which we especially commend to our people for the future observance of Friday, even though we hereby terminate the traditional law of abstinence binding under pain of sin, as the sole prescribed means of observing Friday, we give first place to abstinence from flesh meat. We do so in the hope that the Catholic community will ordinarily continue to abstain from meat by free choice as formerly we did in obedience to Church law.
(emphasis mine) The termination of the obligation is restated in par 25: "25 ……This said, we emphasize that our people are henceforth free from the obligation traditionally binding under pain of sin in what pertains to Friday abstinence, except as noted above for Lent.’

There is no doubt that, while recommending continuation of the previous Friday abstinence, they terminate the obligation. They do not clearly substitute another obligation binding under pain of sin. Indeed, it would seem remarkable if they removed the obligation from abstaining from meat, but imposed it with respect to some other unspecified penance.

So what happened after that document was promulgated? Many, probably most, Catholics ceased practicing abstinence from meat on Friday. Most did not substitute anything else. No one has told them they’re wrong, and the Vatican, as far as I know, has never told the bishops’ conference that they were wrong.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Had you thought of asking your Bishop?

.

Honestly no…I’m going to call up the Bishop about this? like he doesn’t have better things to do?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I have not taken the time to read the 50+ replies, but I thought I would add my 2 cents.

I was raised not to eat meat on Friday. Friday was fish night for as long as I can remember and I bet if I showed up unexpected on Friday night to my parents house, I would find them eatting fish. I didn’t even know that I could eat meat on Fridays outside of Lent until I was an adult and went to lunch with a Priest friend. He ordered a burger, and I was shocked. That is when he told me that the “no meat on Fridays” was only required during Lent…I felt so stupid. Since then, I have eatten meat on Fridays outside of lent happily as I hate fish and pretty much all seafood. **I do like crab and lobster but **that is it. During Lent I generally eat alot of eggs and grilled cheese sandwiches.

I LOVE crab and lobster…but I think that gets around the whole intent during Lent. Wouldn’t be much of a sacrifice. My grandma’s smelt…ya that was definetly a sacrafice. I would each tuna fish but DH doesn’t like it at all…I supposed I could just tell him to “offer it up”

 

[caeli0]

I’m considering abstaining from meat on Fridays (not during Lent, but every Friday, all year), but I’d like to know a bit more about it really. I have read the Catholicism for Dummies answer but it only piqued my curiousity instead of satisfying it. I also did a search on the forums but it seemed to be a lot of commentary with no real life experience thrown in (I’d like to hear from those who follow this particular ‘devotion’ - is that what it’s called?).

Anyway, I’m curious to hear from those who already DO abstain. WHY do you do it (in your own words)? Do you do it all year or just for certain amounts of time? What is the history behind this particular practice (I kind of already know but humor me and explain it in your own words - sometimes things don’t click in my head until they’re explained in just that right way )?

I don’t like doing ANYTHING unless I have a clear idea in mind WHY I’m doing it (as an example I refused to genuflect until it was explained to me exactly what it was and why it was originally done), but I definitely feel a strong tug to begin this particular practice.

I would ask my RCIA group but the last time this subject was brought up they made it VERY clear they look down on these sort of practices.

Our family started all year Friday abstinence about 8-10 years ago. One lent I just had a hard time remembering. I would have dinner half cooked, then remember and would have to break out the eggs, etc. For some reason I would always remember just before it was too late. It didn’t seem to matter that I had no problem the rest of the day.

I figured that I would just take care of that and it would be every Friday and we all do observe it throughout the day. If we have gained anything out of it, I would say “discipline”. I now plan Friday meal way ahead. I may not know what we are having tomorrow but I can tell you what we are having on Friday! Of course the Lenten menu is considerably simplified.

We have offered it up for the intentions of our family, whatever they may be at that time. Now, mostly, we just leave it up to our Lord to decide. He is the best judge of where our feeble attempts at any sacrifice will do the most good.

 

[5Loaves]

…Anyway, I’m curious to hear from those who already DO abstain. WHY do you do it (in your own words)? Do you do it all year or just for certain amounts of time? What is the history behind this particular practice (I kind of already know but humor me and explain it in your own words - sometimes things don’t click in my head until they’re explained in just that right way )?

…I would ask my RCIA group but the last time this subject was brought up they made it VERY clear they look down on these sort of practices.

I follow the practice of my Eastern Catholic parish which is to fast (abstain) Wednesdays and Fridays, on Wednesday in remembrance of the betrayal of Christ and on Fridays in remembrance of His crucifixion and death, with a few exceptions (we just had a fast free week last week). This Sunday we will eat meat for the last time, and next Sunday dairy and eggs for the last time until Pascha/Easter. We have three other extended periods of fasting (abstaining from meat, eggs, daily, wine, olive oil) during the liturgical year.

I began exploring this praxis about 3 years ago and have grown in my understanding of it. The more deeply I’ve come to understand the fast the more meaning it has for me. I can say it has absolutely changed my relationship to Holy Eucharist… we break the fasts with Eucharist and the fast is both preparation and anticipation for Holy Eucharist.

I highly recommend the 10 minute interview Catherine Alexander has on Youtube with Father Moses of Holy Resurrection Romanian Catholic Monastery in Newberry Springs, CA about fasting in the church year. Although he is speaking as an Eastern Catholic monk to an EC audience I think any Latin Catholic can be much enriched in their understanding of fasting by listening to the interview. By clicking on the ". (more info) " link you can see the questions Catherine asks during the interview. Midway through the interview, around minute 5:00 she asks “6) Another special consideration which I know you have a particular interest in is fasting with children. What advice do you have for parents?” which is I think good for all Catholics to consider.

I’m sorry your RCIA conveys a discouraging position on fasting. It may be that those in the RCIA team have had little catechesis themselves on fasting, and feasting, in the Latin Church, and therefor had little or no meaningful experience with this. There is a very rich tradition for this of course but it has been lost in many places. On the other hand there are cultures within the Latin Church which very much keep these practices.

Some other resources to look at are Joanna Bogle’s EWTN series Feasts and Seasons which usually airs at the given seasons. It looks like they will begin airing it Wed 3/9/11 in the US. (They also will begin showing the Light of the East series that evening “their study of the rich traditions found in the Byzantine Catholic Church with a look at the holy season of Lent.”).

In addition to the book Joanna Bogle has by the same name as the TV series Feasts and Seasons other books you might explore are:
The Catholic Parent Book of Feasts: Celebrating the Church Year With Your Family
Building Catholic Family Traditions
Splendor in the Ordinary: Your Home as a Holy Place
Father Leo Patalinghug’s Grace Before Meals cookbooks and EWTN TV series, as well as his blog which will soon focus again on Great Lent.
I see used copies of all of these available through Amazon. You can also look at the table of contents for each of these books there on Amazon.

These are other resources to support this fuller way of living the orthodox Christian life. There may be other people in your RCIA who would enjoy exploring at a deeper level being fully Catholic 24/7 if only they had resources to help them discover more of this.

 

[jmcrae]

Honestly no…I’m going to call up the Bishop about this? like he doesn’t have better things to do?

Actually, his most important job is Catechist (teacher) of the Diocese - answering people’s questions is his top priority. He would be thrilled if more people would come to him with their questions, because that’s what he’s paid for.

 

[spunjalebi]

Are we supposed to be vegan for Lent or all the time? Where does it say that we’re supposed to fast from dairy and meat??

 

[jmcrae]

Are we supposed to be vegan for Lent or all the time? Where does it say that we’re supposed to fast from dairy and meat??

We are supposed to abstain from meat every Friday of Lent - abstaining from dairy is a discipline of the Eastern Rites of the Church, but does not apply to the Latin (Western) Rite.

Throughout the rest of the year, you can choose a different penance for Fridays; you don’t have to abstain from meat - although if you don’t choose a different penance then you should do so. We don’t have the option of doing nothing.

 

[5Loaves]

We are supposed to abstain from meat every Friday of Lent - abstaining from dairy is a discipline of the Eastern Rites of the Church, but does not apply to the Latin (Western) Rite.

Throughout the rest of the year, you can choose a different penance for Fridays; you don’t have to abstain from meat - although if you don’t choose a different penance then you should do so. We don’t have the option of doing nothing.

And to clarify for spunjalebi OP’s question was

…I’m curious to hear from those who already DO abstain. WHY do you do it (in your own words)? Do you do it all year or just for certain amounts of time?..

OP didn’t ask for the fasting requirements, which you and others have also correctly provided. I think that the link JimG provided above to the US Bishops Pastoral Statement on Penance and Abstinence provides very useful teaching on the fasting praxis of the Latin Church.

 

[Marie5890]

I want to thank all of you who contributed to this thread. I too am leaning towards not just abstaining during Lent, but all year round to be a reminder for me. Like everyone, I find the day to day things of life can be a real distraction to my sincere desire of being a disciple of Our Lord. Discipleship means a great deal.

I also hope to be able to pray the Stations of the Cross during the Fridays in Lent. For me that devotion is a real “escape” for a few moments from the hectic modern day life.

Thank you again

 

[jmcrae]

And to clarify for spunjalebi OP’s question was OP didn’t ask for the fasting requirements, which you and others have also correctly provided.

I was actually answering another question that had come up during the discussion. I didn’t mean to be repetitive wrt Jim’s excellent post, but I think the person just wanted something in plain language.

I answered the original question earlier, on Page 1 of the thread.

 

[spunjalebi]

I also abstain from eating meat on Fridays outside of Lent, by the way. I have just never heard of abstaining from all dairy every day during Lent, in addition with meat.

 

[jmcrae]

I also abstain from eating meat on Fridays outside of Lent, by the way. I have just never heard of abstaining from all dairy every day during Lent, in addition with meat.

Yeah, that’s an Eastern thing - fortunately. I don’t know how I’d survive without my cheese and yogurt, especially when not eating meat.

 

[caeli0]

Actually, his most important job is Catechist (teacher) of the Diocese - answering people’s questions is his top priority. He would be thrilled if more people would come to him with their questions, because that’s what he’s paid for.

Is that why their priestly subjects tend to break out in a cold sweat everytime someone from their parish writes a letter?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Actually, his most important job is Catechist (teacher) of the Diocese - answering people’s questions is his top priority. He would be thrilled if more people would come to him with their questions, because that’s what he’s paid for.

Shoot…my priest doesn’t even have enough time to answer all my questions…but the bishop has time for a phone call from everyone? If that’s the case…maybe you should suggest the OP call her bishop?

 

[jmcrae]

Shoot…my priest doesn’t even have enough time to answer all my questions…but the bishop has time for a phone call from everyone? If that’s the case…maybe you should suggest the OP call her bishop?

That’s what I do whenever I have a serious question, and so far, he’s never not had time for me. So, yeah, if she hasn’t called him yet, she should.

 

[CMatt25]

I don’t understand why there is a focus on age. It starts to become a point of legalism if something like that is paid too much attention.

I never have understood either. So then I ask why in the bulletin coming out this weekend (already online) at the territorial parish for Catholics in my locale does it state:

Fast Ash Wed and Good Fri. Ages 18 thru age 59. 1 full meal allowed and 2 smaller meals which together do not equal one full meal. Milk and juice allowed inbetween.

Abstain age 14 and up. No meat Ash Wed and Good Fri and all Fri of Lent.

Does thru age 59 mean until age 59 and 1 day or until age 60?

And I’ve always questioned if the fasting rules defining a fast as one full meal and 2 smaller ones with those liquids allowed was truly fasting.

And as others have alluded to, if being allowed to feast on lobster and scallops (my personal seafood of choice) was all that great a sacrifice.

Why even have such an elaborate set of rules?

 

[NikitaRhea]

Actually the part about one full meal and two smaller meals. I think if I am correct it is either one full meal or two smaller meals (that do not equal one full meal). As for the deal with age, I believe if I am correct in what my godmother told me, it is due to the age groups that can tolerate the fasting with hurting their health. I do 59 years might the average age of the oldest you can go without hurting your health. But, do not hold me to it.

God Bless,
Nikita

 

[CMatt25]

Actually the part about one full meal and two smaller meals. I think if I am correct it is either one full meal or two smaller meals (that do not equal one full meal). As for the deal with age, I believe if I am correct in what my godmother told me, it is due to the age groups that can tolerate the fasting with hurting their health. I do 59 years might the average age of the oldest you can go without hurting your health. But, do not hold me to it.

God Bless,
Nikita

Thanks Nikita. Ok perhaps I misinterpreted it. What it says is “One full meal is allowed. Two other meals may be taken but together they should not equal another full meal. Eating between meals is not permitted, but liquids, including milk and juices, are allowed.”

So I suppose that can be taken either way. One full meal and 2 others. Or one full meal **or **2 others in place of the full one. In an “Outlines of the Catholic Faith” I have it says “Only one full meal a day is allowed. 2 other small meals are allowed.”

The “Outlines” booklet I admit is rather old though as back then the fast rule was for between ages 21 and 59 before it was changed to 18. Copyright for it is 1980 and I’m not sure when 18 yr olds received the right to vote in the US. Before 1980 I know. But maybe the Church changed the rule to reflect secular adulthood or something. I have no idea.

God bless you as well.