Those who always kneel for Holy Communion

[fix]

Mysty101:

I am not talking about acusing anyone–I am speaking of subjecting your will to the will of your shepherd. If there are provisions for kneeling, and you are able to get down & up without creating a ruckus, I have no problem with kneeling, but if you are creating a show of piety, kneeling in the aisle, possibly tripping someone, and you were instructed, you SHOULD follow the instructions of your Bishop.

I will follow the instructions in the GIRM, which was approved by the Holy See.

We agree. The Girm was approved to allow kneeling for those who desire it. I can’t say that some kneel to create a ruckus because I can’t read minds or hearts. We all want to obey and kneeling is in obedience to Christ and His Church.

 

[Mysty101]

fix:

We agree. The Girm was approved to allow kneeling for those who desire it. I can’t say that some kneel to create a ruckus because I can’t read minds or hearts. We all want to obey and kneeling is in obedience to Christ and His Church.

Where is this stated in the GIRM or its adaptations?

 

[fix]

Mysty101:

Where is this stated in the GIRM or its adaptations?

Rome has been asked to clarify the issue and you have read the response. Standing was given the green light, with the understanding, those who wanted to kneel could do so without being called abusers or disobedient. I really can’t see what your point is. Are you arguing with Rome?

 

[fix]

Mysty101:

I am quoting the GIRM

Kneeling is not an arbitray choice, like hand holding during the Our Father which is an authentic abuse in many minds, but the long standing tradition that Rome has said is not disobedient.

 

[fix]

As the authority by virtue of whose recognitio the norm in question has attained the force of law, this Dicastery is competent to specify the manner in which the norm is to be understood for the sake of a proper application. Having received more than a few letters regarding this matter from different locations in the United States of America, the Congregation wishes to ensure that its position on the matter is clear. To this end, it is perhaps useful to respond to your inquiry by repeating the content of a letter that the Congregation recently addressed to a Bishop in the United States of America from whose Diocese a number of pertinent letters had been received. The letter states: “…** while this Congregation gave the recognitio to the norm desired by the Bishops’ Conference of your country that people stand for Holy Communion, this was done on the condition that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds. Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion**”.

This Dicastery hopes that the citation given here will provide an adequate answer to your letter. At the same time, please be assured that the Congregation remains ready to be of assistance if you should need to contact it again.

With every prayerful good wish, I am

Sincerely yours in Christ,

 Mons. Mario Marini
Undersecretary

So the authentic interpreter of the legislation has stated that kneeling is not disobedient.

 

[Mysty101]

fix:

Rome has been asked to clarify the issue and you have read the response. Standing was given the green light, with the understanding, those who wanted to kneel could do so without being called abusers or disobedient. I really can’t see what your point is. Are you arguing with Rome?

No, I am arguing with your interpretation. and I repeat:

I am not talking about acusing anyone–I am speaking of subjecting your will to the will of your shepherd. If there are provisions for kneeling, and you are able to get down & up without creating a ruckus, I have no problem with kneeling, but if you are creating a show of piety, kneeling in the aisle, possibly tripping someone, and you were instructed, you SHOULD follow the instructions of your Bishop.

I will follow the instructions in the GIRM, which was approved by the Holy See.

 

[fix]

Mysty101:

No, I am arguing with your interpretation. and I repeat:

I do not know what to say. If someone is putting on a show that would be wrong, no matter the reason. I am not saying one should not follow the GIRM, but the GIRM needs to be interpreted and it has been. Kneeling is following the GIRM.

 

[StJeanneDArc]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Like the Orans Position during the Our Father. It was not approved and was going to be banned. The Bishops from the inner-cities stated that the African-American community has been doing this since early times in the US. So the Vatican left it alone. It is not mentioned in the GIRM.
Just because it is not mentioned, doesn’t quite mean that it is approved. Juggling is not mentioned. While some motions are mentioned, like crossing one’s head, lips and heart. One can be assured that this gesture is approved.

I grew up in New Orleans, which is majority Black (and contrary to popular perception, was in my lifetime always fairly integrated in the Churches). I don’t recall in the 70’s or 80’s ever seeing any Black people using the orans position, even on those few occassions that I attended Mass at a majority Black parish. In fact, I never saw this until I moved to Houston in the 90’s, and it was a shock. I initially thought it was a Texas thing.

 

[EddieArent]

Fix,
Unfortunitly it looks like Mysty is having a headhunt going for those who kneel. I don’t know why so many topics on this subject is tolerated.

 

[jlw]

EddieArent:

Fix,
Unfortunitly it looks like Mysty is having a headhunt going for those who kneel. I don’t know why so many topics on this subject is tolerated.

That’s my view, too. It seams she is not just defending standing (fine by me, really, Don’t agree, but fine nontheless) but also ANTI-kneeling, which is just wierd to me.

As to the repeat threads, I don’t mind it too much. If it gets attention, and provokes response, it will live another day. If all say “old news, people!”, then it will die.

 

[fix]

EddieArent:

Fix,
Unfortunitly it looks like Mysty is having a headhunt going for those who kneel. I don’t know why so many topics on this subject is tolerated.

I know. With so many liturgical abuses these days, why go after those that are not authentic abusers?

 

[krazykatlady]

EddieArent:

Fix,
Unfortunitly it looks like Mysty is having a headhunt going for those who kneel. I don’t know why so many topics on this subject is tolerated.

Yes. This subject has for some reason become an obsession. These threads ought to be mercifully locked.

 

[Mysty101]

krazykatlady:

Yes. This subject has for some reason become an obsession. These threads ought to be mercifully locked.

Hmmm—yet you are reading and responding.

 

[Mysty101]

fix:

I know. With so many liturgical abuses these days, why go after those that are not authentic abusers?

I am not "going after " anyone. I would say the same thing to anyone who decided they knew better than their Bishop.

 

[jlw]

Mysty101:

I am not "going after " anyone. I would say the same thing to anyone who decided they knew better than their Bishop.

Only the bishop that disallows me fron kneeling when recieving our Lord. That bishop I DO know better than.

If, afterwards, he wants to correct me, on how he prefers I recieve, I will most certainly take that up for advisement, and then find a parish and priest that looks on kneeling (which is allowed) before our Lord more favorably.

 

[TNT]

Ah, the TLM sounds better all the time, doesn’t it.
No GIRM version# 3.5068xxx. No GIRM warfare. No confusion on who distributes Communion. No confusion on whether a bow is profound enough. No confusion on hand or tongue. No confusion on drinking from common vessels during cold/flu periods. No confusion on bishop vs pastor. No confusion on standing or kneeling at communion. No confusion on the offertory words. No confusion on the hymns. No confusion on the intruments. No confusion on orans posture.** No confusion** on altar servers. No confusion on lectors. No confusion on standing after communion. No confusion on stand/sitting/kneeling at all. NO CONFUSION, period. All attention is on the Sacrifice of the Mass.
BUT, No confusion confuses the liberal mind, for he then has no crisis to manage.
Liturgy bureaucracies, national, diocesan, parish, become useless.
Serenity and order is confusion to a liberal.

That is why they love the NOM and hate the TLM…
The NOM is their eternal putty ball. It will never have a final order…EVER.

 

[Mysty101]

jlw:

Only the bishop that disallows me fron kneeling when recieving our Lord. That bishop I DO know better than.

If, afterwards, he wants to correct me, on how he prefers I recieve, I will most certainly take that up for advisement, and then find a parish and priest that looks on kneeling (which is allowed) before our Lord more favorably.

Or maybe a Bishop who thinks differently on some other issue? That’s called a cafeteria Catholic.

But I have no problem with finding a Parish which accommodates kneeling for reception of Holy Communion.

 

[Mysty101]

TNT:

Ah, the TLM sounds better all the time, doesn’t it.
No GIRM version# 3.5068xxx. No GIRM warfare. No confusion on who distributes Communion. No confusion on whether a bow is profound enough. No confusion on hand or tongue. No confusion on drinking from common vessels during cold/flu periods. No confusion on bishop vs pastor. No confusion on standing or kneeling at communion. No confusion on the offertory words. No confusion on the hymns. No confusion on the intruments. No confusion on orans posture.** No confusion** on altar servers. No confusion on lectors. No confusion on standing after communion. No confusion on stand/sitting/kneeling at all. NO CONFUSION, period. All attention is on the Sacrifice of the Mass.

Let’s see what happens when it gets as crowded as some NO Parishes. We have 8 overcrowded Masses every weekend. How many TLM? and how many standing through the whole Mass (because there aren’t enough seats)?

 

[Defensor_Fidei]

I posted this in the other thread:

Since the thirteenth century it was customary here and there to spread a cloth (held by two acolytes) for those communicants kneelings at the altar. Later on, in the sixteenth century this cloth began to be layed over a table or bench which had been placed before the communicants between the nave and the presbyterium. This was found very convenient for and orderly coming and going. Various synods now laid down prescriptions along these lines. However, in place of table or bench, solid rails of wood or stone gradually came into use, but they were calculated for kneeling and **hence were made lower-our communion rail, which since the seventeenth century ** has almost everywhere taken place of the former Screen.

When the faithful go to Communion we say nowadays: They approach the Lord’s Table. This had never meant the communion rail or any of it’s fore runners, but from the very begining it always meant only the altar table, the mensa Domini at which the Sacrament was confected, and from which it was distributed. Nevertheless, it still remains a splendid task for the church-architect so to arrange and align the structure mentions as to trace the comnnection with the holy table which we actually approach when we kneel at the Communion rail.

**That the Body of the Lord should be received kneeling is a custom which slowly and gradually gained the ascendancy in the West between the eleventh and sixteenth centuries.**SIZE=6]Prior to that it was the practice, as we have said, to stand while communicating.

(The Mass of the Roman Rite, Joseph Jungmann, 1951, Benzinger Brothers, page 375-376 volume II)

 

[Marie]

jlw:

Only the bishop that disallows me fron kneeling when recieving our Lord. That bishop I DO know better than.

If, afterwards, he wants to correct me, on how he prefers I recieve, I will most certainly take that up for advisement, and then find a parish and priest that looks on kneeling (which is allowed) before our Lord more favorably.

HMMM! While I quite like kneeling…I prefer obedience and humility to obstinent bashing and trashing a Bishop’s authority to decide.

Just a thought…perhap’s you need to pray on it more and gripe about it less. I realize it is hard for converts to get the hang of the grace of obedience. It’s hard for all of us…but it is a grace and a serious element of our Catholic faith, we take just as serious as postures.
Pax.
Marie