Those who kill in God's name?

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I always get reminded of this question everytime I hear a CNN program Ad where Christiane Amanpour says “… men of God and those who kill in God’s name…”, obviously refering to Muslims who do that.

What justification is there in Quran?
 
The Quran justifies killing in the name of Allah, to establish the religion of Allah, among other reasons. We see that in the OT, God allowed wars, but the intent was never conversion nor to establish Judaism nor to promote faith in their religion. The wars in the OT are descriptive, not prescriptive and were limited in geography and time and specific people in history and as God used the Israelites to punish some nations, He used other nations to punish the Israelite as well. In Islam wars are not limited by geography or nations nor are they descriptive of the past but are applicable against all people and times and places. As soon as Muhammad died, his followers starting raiding cities and killing people or converting them in the name of Allah in order to spread Islam , which is totally alien to both OT and NT.
 
Well, so do Christians, but we apparently ignore it… thank God.

Actually, I think there are a lot of religions out there who call for “killing for the sake of their God”. It sort of fuels the whole “picking and choosing scriptures to obey” theory. :rolleyes:

Sorry, I didn’t answer your question. :o I just had to reply, though.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
 
The Quran justifies killing in the name of Allah, to establish the religion of Allah, among other reasons. We see that in the OT, God allowed wars, but the intent was never conversion nor to establish Judaism nor to promote faith in their religion. The wars in the OT are descriptive, not prescriptive and were limited in geography and time and specific people in history and as God used the Israelites to punish some nations, He used other nations to punish the Israelite as well. In Islam wars are not limited by geography or nations nor are they descriptive of the past but are applicable against all people and times and places. As soon as Muhammad died, his followers starting raiding cities and killing people or converting them in the name of Allah in order to spread Islam , which is totally alien to both OT and NT.
Is this because many misinterpreted the concept of jihad?
 
forced conversions were also committed by “men of God” against Native Americans…and they were justified at that time.
 
Did they kill natives based on a given teaching?
I think it was based on the concept that heathens were lesser beings, a lowe form of life, thus it was okay to not only kill them, but enslave them and torture them. And this was true with indigenous people everywhere, not just in the Americas. There was also the idea that it might be necessary to destroy the body/life to save the soul - this can be seen in the inquisitions, witch burnings, persecutions of various sects, even the bloody events in England when the Catholics battled the Protestants and vice versa (see Bloody Mary Tudor, for example).
 
I think it was based on the concept that heathens were lesser beings, a lowe form of life, thus it was okay to not only kill them, but enslave them and torture them. And this was true with indigenous people everywhere, not just in the Americas. There was also the idea that it might be necessary to destroy the body/life to save the soul - this can be seen in the inquisitions, witch burnings, persecutions of various sects, even the bloody events in England when the Catholics battled the Protestants and vice versa (see Bloody Mary Tudor, for example).
“Bloody” Mary was largely a victim of bad press. She did execute approxomately 300 Protestants, actually fewer than the number of Ctholics executed by Elizabeth. Protestants came back into power after Mary’s death, and with the return of the Marian Exiles, many powerful people in England were Protestant. Furthermore, the Protestants were the owners of the printing houses, so when the Monarch, Parliament, and the press are all Protestant, the Catholics are going to get bad press.
 
I think it was based on the concept that heathens were lesser beings, a lowe form of life, thus it was okay to not only kill them, but enslave them and torture them. And this was true with indigenous people everywhere, not just in the Americas. There was also the idea that it might be necessary to destroy the body/life to save the soul - this can be seen in the inquisitions, witch burnings, persecutions of various sects, even the bloody events in England when the Catholics battled the Protestants and vice versa (see Bloody Mary Tudor, for example).
Do you have any references whether this ‘concept’ was actually part of official church teachings of any sort?
 
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Salaam/peace

What justification is there in Quran?
If Muslims kill any innocent person , punishment is hell fire .

related verses :

Whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind]

Al-Ma’idah 5:32

Surah 17. Isra’, The Night Journey, Children Of Israel

Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).

verse 33

God calls to the Abode of Peace and He guides whom He wills to a straight path. (Qur’an, 10:25)

God commands justice and doing good and giving to relatives. And He forbids indecency and doing wrong and tyranny. He warns you so that hopefully you will pay heed. (Qur’an, 16:90)

related links :

Does the Qur’an Teach Violence?

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544502
 
Salaam/peace

some more info :

Islam Denounces Terrorism by Harun Yahya

http://www.harunyahya.com/images_books/images_islamdenouncesterrorism/113.jpg

King Richard - the “Lion Heart” - ruthlessly executed 3000 Muslim civilians in the Castle of Acre, among whom were many women and children.

…The mutual intolerance of Catholics and Protestants in the 16th and 17th centuries still continues in some countries. The most innocent victims of these conflicts have always been the children.

…The Kingdom of Spain could not tolerate the existence of Muslims and Jews on the Spanish peninsula and inflicted great violence on both communities.

In many other European countries, Jews were oppressed just for being Jews (for instance they were imprisoned in ghettoes), and were sometimes the victims of mass slaughter (pogroms). Christians could not even get on with one another: the fighting between Protestants and Catholics in the 16th and 17th centuries turned Europe into a bloodbath. The 30-Years War between 1618 and 1648 was one result of this Catholic-Protestant conflict. As a result of that war, central Europe became a battleground, and in Germany alone, one-third of the population of 15 million people was killed.

…Professor Edward Said. Originally from a Jerusalem Christian family… In an interview in the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz he recommended the “Ottoman nation system” if a permanent peace is to be built in the Middle East. What he said was:

A Jewish minority can survive the way other minorities in the Arab world survived. …it worked rather well under the Ottoman Empire, with its millet system. What they had then seems a lot more humane than what we have now

harunyahya.com/terrorism6.php
 
…The Kingdom of Spain could not tolerate the existence of Muslims and Jews on the Spanish peninsula and inflicted great violence on both communities.

In many other European countries, Jews were oppressed just for being Jews (for instance they were imprisoned in ghettoes), and were sometimes the victims of mass slaughter (pogroms). Christians could not even get on with one another: the fighting between Protestants and Catholics in the 16th and 17th centuries turned Europe into a bloodbath. The 30-Years War between 1618 and 1648 was one result of this Catholic-Protestant conflict. As a result of that war, central Europe became a battleground, and in Germany alone, one-third of the population of 15 million people was killed.
Yes there were countless killings during the entire length of history among Christians, Jews, Mongols, Goths, Muslims, etc., although you did not mention the ones committed by Islamist expansion from Abassid to Suleiman to Ottoman. But that is not the intention of the OP, lest we will end up having pissing contest as to who killed more.
 
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

If Muslims kill any innocent person , punishment is hell fire .

related verses :

Whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind]
So if the killing is done under those exception, it is justified?
 
Islam teaches that prophet muhammed went to a cave and he got the verses of quran from angel Gabriel. Actually it was not angel Gabriel who gave the verses of Quran to Prophet. It was devil or satan in the form of angel.
In many parts of the quran, they are asked to kill. You see all the muslim nations. In most of them one person or millitary general kills the current ruler and becomes the president. See the history of Iraq, Iran, Saudi arabia.
Recently pope had said that Prophet has brought only war and sin in this world. nothing new. the middle east is completely affected by devil. You see the living conditions in saudi arabia. There is no entertainment allowed. women cannot go outside. So many restrictions.
According to Islam, a man can have 4 wives at a time. But prophet muhammed had 15 wives because of a special revelation from Allah. I am sure that Satan is behind Islam.
Read the novel “Saitanic verses” by Salman Rushdie. YOu will get the essence of Islam.
 
Is this because many misinterpreted the concept of jihad?
well if the wars of conquests can be called Jihad, i don’t see how Muhammad’s compagnions who started them could have missed its meaning.

I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (Bukhari ).

So Allah actually asks Muhammad and his followers to kill, a prescriptive command, and it is obviously Muslims who put the rule as to who is “innocent” and who is not.

In his book, “Jurisprudence in Muhammad’s Biography”, the Azhar scholar, Dr al-Buti says the following :

“The Holy War, as it is known in Islamic Jurisprudence, is basically an offensive war. This is the duty of Muslims in every age when the needed military power becomes available to them. This is the phase in which the meaning of Holy War has taken its final form. Thus the apostle of God said: ‘I was commanded to fight the people until they believe in God and his message …”’

He adds:

“The apostle of God started to send military detachments from among his followers to the various Arab tribes which were scattered in the Arab Peninsula to carry out the task of calling (these tribes) to accept Islam If they did not respond, they would kill them. That was during the 7th Higira year. The number of the detachments amounted to ten.”

And:

The concept of Holy War in Islam does not take into consideration whether (the war is) a defensive or an offensive war. Its goal is the exaltation of the Word of God and the construction of Islamic society and the establishment of God’s Kingdom on Earth regardless of the means. The means would be offensive warfare. In this case it is the apex, the most noble Holy War. It is legal to carry on a Holy War.”

"Defensive warfare in Islam is nothing but a phase of the Islamic mission which the prophet practiced. After that, it was followed by another phase; that is, calling all people to embrace Islam so that nothing less would be acceptable from atheists and those who associate other deities with God than that they embrace Islam. Also, nothing would be acceptable from the people of the Book except conversion to Islam or being subjugated to Muslim rule. In addition, there is the command to fight anyone who attempts to stand in its way. Now, after the domination of Islamic rule is in place, and its mission complete, it is meaningless (in regard to Holy War) to (talk about) defensive wars, as some of the researchers do. Otherwise, what does Muhammad’s statement mean (as it is related by the Bukhari), ‘They would not invade you, but you invade them ’?"

and he continues:

…“This is the concept which professional experts of thought attempt to conceal from the eyes of Muslims by claiming that anything that is related to a holy war in Islamic law is only based on defensive warfare to repel an attack”

“The Book of the Islamic State” by Taqiy al-Din al-Nabahan , he says:

Whenever it found that the nature of the existing system in these states was a barrier which prevented the spread of the mission, they saw it as inevitable that the system be removed. **So holy war continued as a means of spreading Islam. Thus by holy war, countries and regions were conquered. By holy war, kingdoms and states were removed and Islam ruled the nations and peoples…Therefore, carrying the Islamic mission is the basis on which the Islamic state was established, the Islamic army was founded, and holy war was ordained. All the conquests were achieved accordingly. Fulfilling the Islamic mission will restore the Islamic state to the Muslims."

Then he says:
The Islamic system is a universal system, thus it was natural that it would spread, and natural that countries would be conquered. Here the apostle is receiving from Muslims the pledge of ’aqaba the Second, making a pact with him to fight all people. Those Muslims were the core of the army of the Islamic state whose military task was to carry the Islamic mission. The apostle of God had designed the plan of conquest before his death, then after him, his successors undertook the responsibility of implementing this plan when they started conquering the countries. Later, the Islamic conquests followed successively on this basis. People’s resistance or rejection does not matter because the Islamic system is for all people in all countries

**

In Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya’s book this scholar tells the following:

“When the prophet migrated from Mecca to Medina, God ordered him to fight those who fought him only. Then when the chapter of Repentance was revealed, God commanded His prophet to fight anyone who did not become a Muslim from among the Arabs,** whether (that person) fought him or not**. He did not command him to take the poll-tax from infidels.”
 
I think that the issue is not if it is ok to kill in Allah’s name, but who is actually innocent and off limits.

It seems to me that Christian women and children may not be considered as innocent. Muslim women and children, of corse, are.

Afterall, being Christian is the only “sin” in Islam that puts you in hell forever.
 
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