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rwoehmke
Guest
The point is that a starving person taking food is NOT STEALING. He has a right in justice to take food.
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bilop
Guest
As I understand it, if one were starving, and someone has excess food, you have to ask them first for the food. If they unjustly deny you, and you have no other source of food, then you could steal without sin.
However, in the U.S., at this time, I find it hard to imagine this circumstance. Before one could steal without sin, one would have to exhaust the options of food stamps, soup kitchens, asking friends and family for help, begging, and asking the specific person you intend to steal from.
You can’t just steal because you are too “proud” to ask for help.
After reading many stories of “beggars” (really con men) in NY earning hundreds of dollars a day, every day, by begging, I can’t imagine that in any town or city in the U.S. you would not find one or two people a day who would buy you a small meal, by begging on the street.
God Bless
However, in the U.S., at this time, I find it hard to imagine this circumstance. Before one could steal without sin, one would have to exhaust the options of food stamps, soup kitchens, asking friends and family for help, begging, and asking the specific person you intend to steal from.
You can’t just steal because you are too “proud” to ask for help.
After reading many stories of “beggars” (really con men) in NY earning hundreds of dollars a day, every day, by begging, I can’t imagine that in any town or city in the U.S. you would not find one or two people a day who would buy you a small meal, by begging on the street.
God Bless
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I repeat:
Situational Ethics (“What I’m doing would normally be wrong, but **in this situation **it’s right.”) is a very tricky philosophy. I’ve never known anyone to apply Situational Ethics to a real-world situation and not find out that the most ethical thing was the thing that benefited themselves.
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rciadan
Guest
If you are taking it without thier consent, it is stealing. By your standard, where do you draw the line? If I decide I am really really destitute, then is it not stealing if I take money from someone? After all, it is easier just to steal say a purse if I am humgry and then I can go* buy* some food. I’m sorry, but the idea that one can justify sinning is wrong, pure and simple.
Let us make it personal. Someone breaks into your home and steals your food. You come home and find you home has been broken into and there is nothing but food gone. Are you going to say, “Oh, it’s OK, this was social justice at work.”, or will you call the police and report your home having been rodded?
Another example. I steal food because I am hungry. Why did I steal it and not ask for it? Is it because I am too proud to beg? OOPs, there is the sin of pride? Is it because I think it won’t be given if I ask? OOPs, I have just judged my fellow man and found him lacking in charity in my own mind.
If it is okay to steal if you are poor and hungry and that is “social justice,” then it should be okay to kill for the same reason, as in abortion. After all , the baby is going to make it harder to eat and to support those of us who are already here. If breaking one Commandment is fine under certain circumstances, why not the rest? Adultery can be “social justice” if one is starved for sex and your spouse won’t “give it up”! Hey, they should be able to see “social justice” at work and not even be angry. In fact, if they are angry, they are the ones destined fro hell, not the poor adulterer! After all, one must procreate, and if my wife can’t, then it is “social justice” to bed as many woman as possible so I can make a baby with at least one!
I am starving for the Holy Eucharist. It is life eternal.Without it I have no life within me. I am not in Communion with Rome. I have been excommunicated because I am married for the foruth time, never in the Church. I go to Mass and take the Eucharist anyhow. Hey, that is “social justice”! After all I was starving and God said I couldn’t have it, so I just stole it. That is “social justice!”
“Social Justice” is not a Doctine or Dogma, and is an error in thinking, as put forth in this thread.
C
cheeto1
Guest
, but without the smile. It makes me sad thatsomeone is hungry, and who can help?
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vern_humphrey
Guest
That is precisely the question. Stealing and looting is not the answer. Looting is an economic transaction where the strong get all they want, and the weak, infirm and elderly go without.
someone is hungry, and who can help?
In this country, no one needs to steal to in order to eat.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
There are two social actions by the Church. One is charity – that is addressing the Corporal Works of Mercy (feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, and so on.) The other is Social Justice.
Social Justice is fixing the problems so people don’t need charity. A good example of Social Justice would be to establish Catholic schools in areas where the public schools have failed.
Unfortunately, most of those who claim to be “working for Social Justice” don’t understand the concept and push for government charity, not true Social Justice.
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baltobetsy
Guest
This paragraph from the CCC indicates that if you can presume the consent of the owner, it is not stealing at all. It is also not reasonable to refuse food to a starving person.
2408 The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner. There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.
If you want to debate something, it should be what constitutes obvious and urgent necessity.
Betsy
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Mirdath
Guest
How I wish that were so, vern. It’s not everywhere, or all the time, but starvation occurs in the US all too often, especially when an area is going through a bad economic spell.
One thing to remember, is that when someone is severely malnourished, chances are they are not in their right minds anymore. While it remains wrong to steal, they may not be responsible for their actions at that point, and while I am not a Catholic, I have heard that in such a case, the burden of sin is lightened somewhat. The real shame is how many people have no compassion, and allow their fellow human beings to get to that state, when even a few weeks before, they were asked, and the person asking was working to support themselves, but could not make enough money to buy food.
When it happened to me, I slowly realized that I had to choose between paying my rent, or having enough to eat. Since the prospect of not having a roof over my head frightened me more, I chose to pay rent – I, too, had been told how “nobody starves in America!” so I thought somehow it’d all be okay if I just worked as much as I could. No, I could not get a second job, or a ‘better’ one; at that time, if a job opened up at a McDonalds in the area, at dawn there would be a line of applicants all down the street. I was barely eighteen, and had no idea how to go about getting economic assistance, and all the local groups I did manage to find were already strained to the limit. I did all I could do, and it wasn’t enough. By the time I was actually demoralized and hunger-crazed enough to steal food though, I could no longer walk to a store. I was very fortunate that there were a few friends that happened to visit me, and were moved enough to save my life.
So Christian or no, I again urge everyone to give of themselves when someone is in need. Not only will you gain potential brownie-points to heaven (or however that’s done), you will have a friend for life, and that person will likely take your example to heart and help others in need as well one day --including you should you ever be in trouble! That propagating wave of love and kindness in the world sounds more like a ‘heaven’ than any other version I have heard.
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rciadan
Guest
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