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teeboy
Guest
If the Bible is a portrayal of the Early Church, aren’t sacred tradition and the infallible doctrines of the Pope an indicator of the more recent Church?
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davidn87
Guest
Oh this’ll be fun…
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pablope
Guest
Where did you get this from? I would say it is a snapshot…but not a total picture.If the Bible is a portrayal of the Early Church, aren’t sacred tradition and the infallible doctrines of the Pope an indicator of the more recent Church?
Sacred Tradition is what was handed down to the Apostles…so ST was there from the beginning.
Did not Christ say…we must begin like a mustard seed and grow to a majestic big tree?
Would you expect the Church, as it grew…to continue to remain stagnant? Or as the Church grew, its direction and growth was guided by the HS, for as Christ said, the HS will guide the Church for all eternity.
But not individuals.
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fhansen
Guest
Well, no more than the doctrine of the Trinity is an indicator of a more recent Church, in this case circa 325.If the Bible is a portrayal of the Early Church, aren’t sacred tradition and the infallible doctrines of the Pope an indicator of the more recent Church?
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teeboy
Guest
So you disagree to agree.
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JM3
Guest
Premise is incorrect. The Bible is not a portrayal of the early Church, as evidenced by Gregory the Great.If the Bible is a portrayal of the Early Church, aren’t sacred tradition and the infallible doctrines of the Pope an indicator of the more recent Church?
newadvent.org/fathers/360209012.htm
First came the Magisterium, then came Sacred Tradition and, from these, the Bible.But the Lord’s prayer (orationem Dominicam) we say immediately after the prayer (mox post precem) for this reason, that it was the custom of the apostles to consecrate the host of oblation to (ad) that same prayer only.
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pablope
Guest
On what?So you disagree to agree.
For every writing that made in the Bible, there were 10 others that did not make it.
If you want to get whole picture, you should also read these writings and the writings of the Early Church Fathers.
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davidn87
Guest
So that verse where Jesus says “baptise them in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit” wasn’t in the Bible til 325?Well, no more than the doctrine of the Trinity is an indicator of a more recent Church, in this case circa 325.
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fhansen
Guest
Those verses that said that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all equally and fully God are not in the bible with sufficient clarity to prevent an enormous movement within Christianity which denied the deity of Jesus Christ.So that verse where Jesus says “baptise them in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit” wasn’t in the Bible til 325?
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davidn87
Guest
If anyone’s denying Jesus is God, then they’re not a Christian are they?
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teeboy
Guest
I don’t know much about the council to which you refer; however, this is a good point to drive home the importance of a human authority guided by the Holy Spirit.Those verses that said that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all equally and fully God are not in the bible with sufficient clarity to prevent an enormous movement within Christianity which denied the deity of Jesus Christ.
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teeboy
Guest
Be careful not to deny the Pope and the Catholic Church.If anyone’s denying Jesus is God, then they’re not a Christian are they?
We have so called christian radio stations locally that are out to only deny the Pope and the Catholic Church. I am glad to not be affiliated with stations that deny truth.
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davidn87
Guest
Where though does it say anything other than “on this rock…”? What about verses like Proverbs 11:14?
I’m not “denying” the Pope or the Church, I’m saying I don’t agree with everything it - or at least what some members - are saying.
I’m not “denying” the Pope or the Church, I’m saying I don’t agree with everything it - or at least what some members - are saying.
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fhansen
Guest
Yes. I’m just not sure how that relates to the OP.I don’t know much about the council to which you refer; however, this is a good point to drive home the importance of a human authority guided by the Holy Spirit.
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fhansen
Guest
To quote teeboy:Where though does it say anything other than “on this rock…”? What about verses like Proverbs 11:14?
I’m not “denying” the Pope or the Church, I’m saying I don’t agree with everything it - or at least what some members - are saying.
"… this is a good point to drive home the importance of a human authority guided by the Holy Spirit."
There are many things in scripture which are seemingly ambiguous or unclear-enough so that many well-intentioned people disagree significantly on its meaning.
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pablope
Guest
The Bible as you see know it today did not take its form till about AD382.So that verse where Jesus says “baptise them in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit” wasn’t in the Bible til 325?
However…those words of the Lord were in the hearts and minds of the Apostles…and those they appointed as their successors…this is called Sacred Tradition.
Remember what Jesus said prior to his Ascension…they would not remember or understand everything that was handed down till Pentecost.
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fhansen
Guest
According to Catholic and mainstream Protestant doctrine, yes, this is true. According to Arian and others, no.If anyone’s denying Jesus is God, then they’re not a Christian are they?
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