Thought process of non Christians who use the New Testament

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we hope the whole world can come to love the Father and at the same time realize that nothing is lost in their Love for their Prophet as it is God we all Worship

who is this father of the bahai? what is his nature and what are his attributes? it is only right that people know the answer to these questions before they give their allegiance to this entity.

also, this quote cannot be addressed to christians because christianity is not based on its prophet. it is based on the Second Person of the Holy Trinity’s Incarnation.

finally, i do not think EVERYONE worships God. that idea seems more than a little naive.

to demonstrate this point let me ask a question, what God were the muslims worshipping when they beheaded thirty christians in libya?
 
eddie_too said:
we hope the whole world can come to love the Father and at the same time realize that nothing is lost in their Love for their Prophet as it is God we all Worship

who is this father of the bahai? what is his nature and what are his attributes? it is only right that people know the answer to these questions before they give their allegiance to this entity.

also, this quote cannot be addressed to christians because christianity is not based on its prophet. it is based on the Second Person of the Holy Trinity’s Incarnation.

finally, i do not think EVERYONE worships God. that idea seems more than a little naive.

to demonstrate this point let me ask a question, what God were the muslims worshipping when they beheaded thirty christians in libya?
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Dear Eddie I think in reality it is not hard to see what is of God and What is not.

Thou shall not Kill in Christianity. that shall not kill unless defending your life in Islam, then one can defend their life.

Thou will learn war no more in Baha’i Faith.

Doctrinal Issues between religions should not stop us loving each other for an in our Love for God.

Regards Tony
 
so, according to the bahai, people do not have a right to know what a bahai means when they use the word father?

that pretty much confirms my thoughts about bahai and bahaullah.
 
Dear Eddie I think in reality it is not hard to see what is of God and What is not.

i suggest your concept of reality is flawed. if it were not hard to see, why are there are tens of thousands of different religions with different teachings?

my prayer for you is that you leave your imaginary utopia and begin living in the real world.
 
christians worship Jesus of Nazareth, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, the Incarnate Word. i do pray that all people will join with me in doing this.

i have no idea who bahai worship or who bahaullah told them to worship. since the bahai refuse to discuss who they call father and what attributes the entity they call god possesses, it may be hard for me and them to come to an agreement on religion.

i do see however a certain mysticism(?) in the bahai religion. others might call it imaginary utopianism. however, the bahai idea that all people will magically align themselves with bahaullah is hard to place in reality.

the idea that bahaullah’s concept of all religions ignoring their beliefs, to unite under him, will in and of itself produce unity is pure fantasy.

the bahai have communicated nothing to tell us what bahaullah produced that might result in his vision of a unified and peaceful world. what is there about bahuallah or his writings that will turn people away from their traditional beliefs?
 
eddie_too said:
i have not read nothing of bahaullah or his teachings that leads me to believe that i need them for anything.

i have no idea why bahai idolize bahaullah. nothing the self-proclaimed bahai, whose writings i have read here, have written provides any reason for me to think bahaullah will give me more life than i have already received through Jesus.

if a person never encounters bahaullah or his writings, what do they lack?

and on a different topic, for what do the bahai hope?
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This is because you are reading snippets of His Writings with intent to defame and to prove that you are right and He is wrong.

I suggest you read a book called Nabils Narrative so you can appreciate what you are reading and that God may grant you sincerity of intent 🙂

.
 
eddie_too said:
who is this father of the bahai? what is his nature and what are his attributes? it is only right that people know the answer to these questions before they give their allegiance to this entity.
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Well you can name any attribute of the Son that you like and I will confirm for you that the Father has the same attribute.
to demonstrate this point let me ask a question, what God were the muslims worshipping when they beheaded thirty christians in libya?
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They were worshipping not a God, but an idol, the idol of religious extremism.

.
 
eddie_too said:
Dear Eddie I think in reality it is not hard to see what is of God and What is not.

i suggest your concept of reality is flawed. if it were not hard to see, why are there are tens of thousands of different religions with different teachings?

my prayer for you is that you leave your imaginary utopia and begin living in the real world.
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“The Real World” 😉

Where do you think that is Eddie?

Regards Tony
 
What are the criteria that non-Christian users of the NT adopt when deciding which bits are believable and which bits not?
 
Kaninchen said:
What are the criteria that non-Christian users of the NT adopt when deciding which bits are believable and which bits not?
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That it is all Believable. That all must be weighed against Science and Reason. That all Words of God contain significant Spiritual Truth that does Balance with Reason.

So things Like Christ returning on Clouds are not Material Clouds of Vapour that rise, but mean Clouds that obscure our vision of the Sun of Truth.

Stars falling from Heaven could be priests that prevent the people recognising Gods message, they could have been likened to the stars that reflect the Rays of the Suns of Truth… etc

Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
That it is all Believable. That all must be weighed against Science and Reason. That all Words of God contain significant Spiritual Truth that does Balance with Reason.

So things Like Christ returning on Clouds are not Material Clouds of Vapour that rise, but mean Clouds that obscure our vision of the Sun of Truth.

Stars falling from Heaven could be priests that prevent the people recognising Gods message, they could have been likened to the stars that reflect the Rays of the Suns of Truth… etc

Regards Tony
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I’m sorry but that’s all terribly vague to me - remember I’m from a religion that’s does tend to more about ‘doing stuff’ (orthopraxy) rather than ‘believing stuff’ so, when things get a bit mystical, I get lost rather easily.

Do you think the Jesus miracles happened, for example?
 
Kaninchen said:
I’m sorry but that’s all terribly vague to me - remember I’m from a religion that’s does tend to more about ‘doing stuff’ (orthopraxy) rather than ‘believing stuff’ so, when things get a bit mystical, I get lost rather easily.

Do you think the Jesus miracles happened, for example?
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Ha ha, Do you think Baha’is are not doing stuff 😉

God has given each and every person the capacity to know him and love him, how else can each of is be judged.

Remember it was a fisherman with no education who became one of the most Learned. No human learning is needed to know and love God. In saying that Education is a must and can raise man to Glorified hights as long as God is in The heart.

No doubt that Jesus performed Miracles as did Muhammad the Bab and Baha’u’llah. We are told the greatest is that of changing satanic hearts into God devoted Lovers. This was their purpose.

Material Miracles are not lasting proof and only good for those who witnessed them. If they are proof then you must accept all that have performed them.

Regards Tony
 
Remember it was a fisherman with no education who became one of the most Learned. No human learning is needed to know and love God. In saying that Education is a must and can raise man to Glorified hights as long as God is in The heart.

what fisherman would that be? all of the Lord’s twelve apostles received their education from God Himself who spent three years, virtually 24-7, teaching them. education does not get any better than that.
 
Stars falling from Heaven could be priests that prevent the people recognising Gods message, they could have been likened to the stars that reflect the Rays of the Suns of Truth… etc

or they could be not likened to stars. that is why so often what we find non-christians doing to sacred scripture is to give it meanings that are unrelated to its purpose.

this is the error in the non-christian use of the New Testament. they imagine what a verse could mean and then take that imagined meaning and use it as though it corresponds to every other verse in the NT. the non-christians have no idea of what the sacred authors were communicating. they have but glimpses of the meaning of the NT.

the non-christians do not necessarily do this intentionally. however, that does not change the fact that rejecting everything that has come from Jesus and replacing it with human interpretations from men who have no organic or concrete connection to Jesus can only result in confusion and misinformation.
 
eddie_too said:
Stars falling from Heaven could be priests that prevent the people recognising Gods message, they could have been likened to the stars that reflect the Rays of the Suns of Truth… etc

or they could be not likened to stars. that is why so often what we find non-christians doing to sacred scripture is to give it meanings that are unrelated to its purpose.

this is the error in the non-christian use of the New Testament. they imagine what a verse could mean and then take that imagined meaning and use it as though it corresponds to every other verse in the NT. the non-christians have no idea of what the sacred authors were communicating. they have but glimpses of the meaning of the NT.

the non-christians do not necessarily do this intentionally. however, that does not change the fact that rejecting everything that has come from Jesus and replacing it with human interpretations from men who have no organic or concrete connection to Jesus can only result in confusion and misinformation.
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Non Jews must all be wrong 😉

Regards Tony
 
**Non Jews must all be wrong

Regards Tony **

not those non-jews who followed the Jewish Messiah and His appointed jewish apostles.

those non-jews are exactly right.

it is the jewish messiah’s interpretations of the OT that form the foundation for the NT.

i realize this is new and confusing to some who have never really studied christianity and its teachings. especially those who have no idea of the coherence and completeness of the teachings of Jesus, the jewish Son of Mary, the perfect jewess.

it is kind of ridiculous to think you have made a profound point by imagining that the christian interpretations of the OT do not come directly from jews.
 
eddie_too said:
**Non Jews must all be wrong

Regards Tony **

not those non-jews who followed the Jewish Messiah and His appointed jewish apostles.

those non-jews are exactly right.

it is the jewish messiah’s interpretations of the OT that form the foundation for the NT.

i realize this is new and confusing to some who have never really studied christianity and its teachings. especially those who have no idea of the coherence and completeness of the teachings of Jesus, the jewish Son of Mary, the perfect jewess.

it is kind of ridiculous to think you have made a profound point by imagining that the christian interpretations of the OT do not come directly from jews.
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Ditto 😉 You have given a reply for the Muslims and Given a reply for the Baha’is 👍

Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
Ha ha, Do you think Baha’is are not doing stuff 😉
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It’s a question of the ‘doing stuff’ balance.

I’m sorry but it’s still seems awfully nebulous to me and please remember that you’re talking to somebody for whom the NT is neither scripture nor reportage so the whole intelligent fisherman business is pretty meaningless, for example.

Nevertheless, I’d still like to understand just where it is that you depart from Christians and their beliefs - what it is you do believe in the NT and just what it is that you don’t believe.
 
mohammed, bab and bahaullah were not jewish. how can they claim to be organically connected to judaism?

nor were they ever christian, which would give them an organic connection to judaism.

whereas christianity was founded by a jew and based on jewish teachings and history, mohammed founded islam based on meetings with an angel (no one can say for sure who sent the angel to him). as i have been taught, both bab and bahaullah claimed to be connected to mohammed and islam. i would be interested in knowing how they were connected to judaism or christianity, beyond a fleeting awareness that both had existed before them or mohammed.
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s a question of the ‘doing stuff’ balance.

I’m sorry but it’s still seems awfully nebulous to me and please remember that you’re talking to somebody for whom the NT is neither scripture nor reportage so the whole intelligent fisherman business is pretty meaningless, for example.

Nevertheless, I’d still like to understand just where it is that you depart from Christians and their beliefs - what it is you do believe in the NT and just what it is that you don’t believe.
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👍

MJ
 
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