Thought process of non Christians who use the New Testament

[Servant19]

I’m scared of Eric

Regards Tony

LOL

It’s a good thing!

I pray for Eric every day. He has probably the hardest job on the planet in here. All in all he does an exemplary job!



.

 

[Kaninchen]

Dear Kaninchen,

The Baha’i Faith has no problems in believing the historicity of the Bible, but stresses the need to understand that the purpose of the Bible is not for its historical value, but for it’s spiritual value.

Every word, every teaching, every parable has spiritual application in our lives, and gives us a direction on “what we should DO” in order to be in righteous relationship with G-d.

I think the value of the NT over the OT lies in it’s emphasis in seeing the “spirit” behind our actions, and how that can impact our soul and thereby our drawing us nearer to our Lord.

So, what the Christians call the ‘Bible’, you consider as a story book resource for spiritual insight?

By the way, I think the ‘spiritual’ side of the religious ‘garden’ can be the part full of the most vibrant colour and glorious blooms - the trouble is that, unless you are diligent with the hoe, it soon gets infested with weeds.

 

[Servant19]

So, what the Christians call the ‘Bible’, you consider as a story book resource for spiritual insight?

I didn’t quite say that, dear sister

I said it’s likely to be all true and an actual rebelling of historical events. But the purpose behind the Apostles writing it down for us all to read today holds “more” spiritual value than historical value, from a Baha’i perspective.

Spirit is the foundation of Baha’i theology.

By the way, I think the ‘spiritual’ side of the religious ‘garden’ can be the part full of the most vibrant colour and glorious blooms - the trouble is that, unless you are diligent with the hoe, it soon gets infested with weeds.

And that’s why new religions are born dear Kaninchen.

Looking at the world today, wouldn’t you say it’s in need of a good hoe?

Baha’is believe we are doing the hoeing, through the power invested in us by the Holy Spirit.

.

 

[Kaninchen]

I didn’t quite say that, dear sister

Sometimes one has to ask a question in several ways before one gets clearer answers - we’re a religion of Law, Servant19, it tends to make us all lawyers in one way or another.

I said it’s likely to be all true and an actual rebelling of historical events. But the purpose behind the Apostles writing it down for us all to read today holds “more” spiritual value than historical value, from a Baha’i perspective.

Predictably, that’s where the ‘house of cards’ I was talking about falls down.

Looking at the world today, wouldn’t you say it’s in need of a good hoe?

Baha’is believe we are doing the hoeing, through the power invested in us by the Holy Spirit.

Of course you do, I rarely write ‘throwaway lines’, by the way. There’s usually a purpose to it.

It’s been rather interesting talking to people who come from what might be described as the ‘other end’ of the monotheistic line.

 

[TonyBS]

By the way, I think the ‘spiritual’ side of the religious ‘garden’ can be the part full of the most vibrant colour and glorious blooms - the trouble is that, unless you are diligent with the hoe, it soon gets infested with weeds.

That is what Baha’u’llah has brought back to the Religious Table.

Worship is not accepted unless it results in deeds. Baha’u’llah has raised work to the level of Worship. If one undertakes His/Her occupation in the spirit of service to humanity, we can now spend the day in the prayer of work.

Regards Tony

 

[Kaninchen]

That is what Baha’u’llah has brought back to the Religious Table.

Worship is not accepted unless it results in deeds. Baha’u’llah has raised work to the level of Worship. If one undertakes His/Her occupation in the spirit of service to humanity, we can now spend the day in the prayer of work.

Regards Tony

Oh, orthopraxy is a grand thing, Tony, living in a religion of Law means you’re continually being reminded of what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.

 

[TonyBS]

Oh, orthopraxy is a grand thing, Tony, living in a religion of Law means you’re continually being reminded of what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.

We pray each day to keep God Unconstrained that we find our God Standing within with Laws.

Life is living Gods Laws by subduing self.

Regards Tony

 

[Kaninchen]

We pray each day to keep God Unconstrained that we find our God Standing within with Laws.

Life is living Gods Laws by subduing self.

There’s nothing like a good argument though - which isn’t really terribly self-subduing as an activity.

By the way, remember that we Jews don’t believe that people are, in some way, disadvantaged in God’s eyes for not believing as we do. I have no reason, nor desire, to change your mind about what you believe.

 

[Peter_J]

Well, I have to say that I rather enjoy these sorts of threads - in a sort of way.

That’s very…helpful.

MJ

For a Jew it’s a little like ‘taste of their own medicine time’.

I think the Baha’i:Christian :: Christian:Jewish analogy is the only thing that has kept me at all interested in this thread.

Of course, with that in mind a Christian can always say to a Baha’i what a Jew can say to a Christian: “Uh, yeah, I realize that your religion incorporates our Bible. Why does that make you think I would be interested in your religion?” (or whatever variations on that wording)

 

[TonyBS]

There’s nothing like a good argument though - which isn’t really terribly self-subduing as an activity.

By the way, remember that we Jews don’t believe that people are, in some way, disadvantaged in God’s eyes for not believing as we do. I have no reason, nor desire, to change your mind about what you believe.

And I yours or any one, as it is God that Gives to who so ever He chooses.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

I think the Baha’i:Christian :: Christian:Jewish analogy is the only thing that has kept me at all interested in this thread.

Of course, with that in mind a Christian can always say to a Baha’i what a Jew can say to a Christian: “Uh, yeah, I realize that your religion incorporates our Bible. Why does that make you think I would be interested in your religion?” (or whatever variations on that wording)

In that lays the progression of Religion.

Obviously enough chose that it was interesting enough!

Regards Tony

 

[eddie_too]

i have never been given one sound reason, from anyone, to believe that the bab and bahaullah were sent by almighty God.

i have asked for a sound reason, but it has never been provided.

the most obvious manner in which bahai use the new testament is to deny all of the interpretations of it that preceded bab.

i guess as long as everyone realizes this is the main technique used by the bahai for interpreting the new testament, harm will not be substantial.

the danger is for those who do not realize that the bahai interpretation of the new testament is in no way similar to the interpretations of the many christian sects.

the bahai completely abandon the teachings of the apostles and substitute imaginary meanings. this of course leads souls away from Jesus.

i pray do not let interlopers lead you away from the teachings of the apostles and the teachings of Jesus.

if God wanted someone to expand or expound upon the teachings of Jesus in an as yet unknown manner, God would never send that person to diminish, deny and change the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the teachings of His Apostles and their Successors. God would never do that to His children. Trust in Jesus.

 

[Kaninchen]

I think the Baha’i:Christian :: Christian:Jewish analogy is the only thing that has kept me at all interested in this thread.

Of course, with that in mind a Christian can always say to a Baha’i what a Jew can say to a Christian: “Uh, yeah, I realize that your religion incorporates our Bible. Why does that make you think I would be interested in your religion?” (or whatever variations on that wording)

As an outsider, I’d suggest that Christians tend to be very good at ‘intra-religious’ argument and, from time to time, in dealing with ‘non-believers’. Christians, however, have tended to have much less practice in ‘inter-religious’ argument where learning to see a religion through the eyes of its own believers is quite important if one is to avoid ‘talking at’ one another.

 

[Servant19]

i have never been given one sound reason, from anyone, to believe that the bab and bahaullah were sent by almighty God.

We have given you plenty, but it is not enough.

So let me ask you. What is it exactly that you are looking for??

What is the one “sound reason” that you want?

.

 

[drac16]

I use it to try to reach people. If I want to lead people to Islam [and I most certainly do], I have to make sure that I represent them fairly. The best way to learn about Christianity is to go learn from Christian sources. Just as I would want someone to be fair when researching Islam, I have to be consistent and go to Christian books-- not books written by the enemies of Christianity.

I don’t have to quote the New Testament to present what Islam says about Jesus, but it helps to understand its teachings.

 

[Servant19]

Sometimes one has to ask a question in several ways before one gets clearer answers - we’re a religion of Law, Servant19, it tends to make us all lawyers in one way or another.

Predictably, that’s where the ‘house of cards’ I was talking about falls down.

Of course you do, I rarely write ‘throwaway lines’, by the way. There’s usually a purpose to it.

It’s been rather interesting talking to people who come from what might be described as the ‘other end’ of the monotheistic line.

Hi sister Kaninchen,

Would you mind clarifying what exactly is this “house of cards” you mention?

My lawyer in me ( ) wants more clarify with precision please

Also what do you mean the “other end” of the monotheistic line?

.

 

[Kaninchen]

Hi sister Kaninchen,

Would you mind clarifying what exactly is this “house of cards” you mention?

Sorry, it was in a reply to Tony that I’d said:

I do tend to get a picture of a ‘house of cards’, with the Baha’i view of Christianity at the bottom then, on top of that, the Baha’i view of Islam as the next level and, on top, the Baha’i view of Baha’i.

Of course, you might add to a description of Judaism’s belief structure: “the Jewish view of Mesopotamian triple-goddess religion,” and you might well be right but it would be a theological whataboutery really.

Also what do you mean the “other end” of the monotheistic line?

That, of course, is a matter of perspective, I might have put it as the latest great interpreters of “what the Jews didn’t understand about God and stuff.”

 

[openmind77]

We have given you plenty, but it is not enough.

So let me ask you. What is it exactly that you are looking for??

What is the one “sound reason” that you want?

.

Mr Servant, maybe the answer is to not try so hard. If Bahaullah is indeed the ‘Return of the Christ’, the ‘Return of the Mahdi’, the ‘Glory of the Holy Spirit’, the ‘Glory of the Father’ or the ‘Father’ himself (I am not sure which), he will himself reach into our hearts and convince us of his authenticity. Your job maybe to just inform of us of about Bahaullah and leave the convincing to him.

Soon in the less than a couple of years, the Mahdi as well as the Christ will return and then this may not be that important.

 

[Servant19]

Mr Servant, maybe the answer is to not try so hard. If Bahaullah is indeed the ‘Return of the Christ’, the ‘Return of the Mahdi’, the ‘Glory of the Holy Spirit’, the ‘Glory of the Father’ or the ‘Father’ himself (I am not sure which), he will himself reach into our hearts and convince us of his authenticity. Your job maybe to just inform of us of about Bahaullah and leave the convincing to him.

Soon in the less than a couple of years, the Mahdi as well as the Christ will return and then this may not be that important.

Of course you are right, but the miracle of Baha’u’llah will not take place in any heart if prejudice and ignorance about Him exists.

My spiritually obligated role here is to eliminate prejudice fuelled from ignorance.

The rest, is of course, in Baha’u’llah’s All-Knowing hands



p.s you’ve been saying Christ will Return in a couple of years since I joined CAF 2 years ago now. At what point do you say “ok I should seriously consider Baha’u’llah”?

.

 

[Servant19]

Sorry, it was in a reply to Tony that I’d said:

I do tend to get a picture of a ‘house of cards’, with the Baha’i view of Christianity at the bottom then, on top of that, the Baha’i view of Islam as the next level and, on top, the Baha’i view of Baha’i.

Of course, you might add to a description of Judaism’s belief structure: “the Jewish view of Mesopotamian triple-goddess religion,” and you might well be right but it would be a theological whataboutery really.

That, of course, is a matter of perspective, I might have put it as the latest great interpreters of “what the Jews didn’t understand about God and stuff.”

Did Moses talk about how He would establish the unification of the human race?

.