Thought Re: Athiests vs. Believers

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I got the idea for this comment while observing another thread. I’m not sure if this is an original observation of mine or if I read it somewhere (it’s probably not original but I don’t know the source so I can’t cite it), but I want to know how many of you agree with it: Atheists tend to be better than believers at adhering to a given moral code, but the moral code they adhere to is constantly changing unlike that of believers. Do you agree with this? Does this comment reflect better upon believers or atheists? Any comments in general on the statement?
 
Job42 said:
I got the idea for this comment while observing another thread. I’m not sure if this is an original observation of mine or if I read it somewhere (it’s probably not original but I don’t know the source so I can’t cite it), but I want to know how many of you agree with it: Atheists tend to be better than believers at adhering to a given moral code, but the moral code they adhere to is constantly changing unlike that of believers. Do you agree with this? Does this comment reflect better upon believers or atheists? Any comments in general on the statement?
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Haha this reminds me of:

“If you don’t behave as you believe, you will end by believing as you behave.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
 
Saying that atheists have a moral code is like calling a sieve a bucket.
 
This also applies:

“Too many people get credit for being good, when they are only being passive. They are too often praised for being broadminded when they are so broadminded they can never make up their minds about anything.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
 
Job42 said:
I got the idea for this comment while observing another thread. I’m not sure if this is an original observation of mine or if I read it somewhere (it’s probably not original but I don’t know the source so I can’t cite it), but I want to know how many of you agree with it: Atheists tend to be better than believers at adhering to a given moral code, but the moral code they adhere to is constantly changing unlike that of believers. Do you agree with this? Does this comment reflect better upon believers or atheists? Any comments in general on the statement?
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I cannot give you the original pillar on which you base your observation. While atheists may adhere to a “moral code” it most certainly cannot be said that they are better at it than theists. That is especially evident if you look at the Jews, amish, mormons and on and on…
What an odd assertion.🤷
 
Of course this is true. Christians, Catholics in particular, have a moral code set by a perfect God. An atheist’s beliefs are set by themselves. In other words, their morals are set almost entirely by their own moral standard, which I imagine would be pretty difficult to break.

Think of it this way. Every time we sin (venial or mortal) we have acted against our moral code. They don’t have the same standard. To many atheists, anything is permissible so long as it doesn’t physically harm anyone.
 
Many atheists parents are evangelicals or they were themselves at one time. That’s where they get their imaginary morals.

What morals exactly: don’t steal from me; don’t lie to me; don’t take my wife; don’t kill me?

They have morals they wish to inflict on others, but not any that will inconvenience them.
 
karebear92 said:
Of course this is true. Christians, Catholics in particular, have a moral code set by a perfect God. An atheist’s beliefs are set by themselves. In other words, their morals are set almost entirely by their own moral standard, which I imagine would be pretty difficult to break.

Think of it this way. Every time we sin (venial or mortal) we have acted against our moral code. They don’t have the same standard. To many atheists, anything is permissible so long as it doesn’t physically harm (them).
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Fixed that for you.
 
The attacks on atheists in this thread are uncharitable and unreasoned. There is no single attitude among atheists, any more than there is a single attitude among people who do not believe in astrology. Some have strong moral codes, some do not. Some live up to them, some do not. Some have moral codes which do not change, others change their views often.
 
Hokomai said:
The attacks on atheists in this thread are uncharitable and unreasoned. There is no single attitude among atheists, any more than there is a single attitude among people who do not believe in astrology. Some have strong moral codes, some do not. Some live up to them, some do not. Some have moral codes which do not change, others change their views often.
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I agree. I apologize if anything I said was offensive to anyone.
 
Hokomai said:
The attacks on atheists in this thread are uncharitable and unreasoned. There is no single attitude among atheists, any more than there is a single attitude among people who do not believe in astrology. Some have strong moral codes, some do not. Some live up to them, some do not. Some have moral codes which do not change, others change their views often.
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I did not intend (at least not consiously) for this to become a thread for bashing atheists. I wanted to learn something and see some opinions from both believers and nonbelievers of all stripes. I am sorry if I have offended and/or others have offended any of our brother and sister atheists. If the mods see fit to close the thread they may do so but I would still like the thread to continue as a healthy conversation thread if people are interested.
 
The problem here is that atheists are in fact quite unwilling to think through the logical conclusions of their beliefs, so they cannot be thought of as actually adhering to their own ethical system. Which is actually a good thing, all things considered.

The modern liberal consequentialist materialist/atheist, for instance, believes that, since there is no such thing as teleology, human nature, or the order of being, since the universe is just a giant chaos, that sex has absolutely zero significance – just a meaningless recreation with purely arbitrary and conventional value at best.

Yet they regard rape as the worst thing imaginable, to be stamped out regardless of the cost. Now how is this possible if sex is no more innately meaningful than a handshake? Shaking someone’s hand against their will is rude and maybe even venially sinful, but surely it’s not so big a deal that someone would need to go to prison for it, no?

Of course the prohibition on rape is not a logical consequence of modern principles but an unprincipled exception to them. And this kind of unprincipled exception is made because the only alternative is to admit that a world filled with rapists is exactly what a world run consistently on materialist/atheist/consequentialist principles would look like.
 
Hokomai said:
The attacks on atheists in this thread are uncharitable and unreasoned. There is no single attitude among atheists, any more than there is a single attitude among people who do not believe in astrology. Some have strong moral codes, some do not. Some live up to them, some do not. Some have moral codes which do not change, others change their views often.
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Just think. You have Christ to thank for your freedom not to believe. Before Christ you’d be drinking hemlock.
 
sw85 said:
The modern liberal consequentialist materialist/atheist, for instance, believes that, since there is no such thing as teleology, human nature, or the order of being, since the universe is just a giant chaos, that sex has absolutely zero significance – just a meaningless recreation with purely arbitrary and conventional value at best.

.
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Do you really believe that a significant number of atheists believe this? Have you met one?
 
Job42 said:
I got the idea for this comment while observing another thread. I’m not sure if this is an original observation of mine or if I read it somewhere (it’s probably not original but I don’t know the source so I can’t cite it), but I want to know how many of you agree with it: Atheists tend to be better than believers at adhering to a given moral code, but the moral code they adhere to is constantly changing unlike that of believers. Do you agree with this? Does this comment reflect better upon believers or atheists? Any comments in general on the statement?
Click to expand...
I don’t agree that a given atheist’s moral code is constantly changing, at least not by definition. People do change their minds on certain things, but not constantly.
 
Hokomai said:
Do you really believe that a significant number of atheists believe this? Have you met one?
Click to expand...
This is PRECISELY the reason traditional sexual values are attacked by those on the atheist/materialist/consequentialist left: because it’s “just sex.”

I recall reading a story recently about women in Sweden protesting the topless sunbathing ban at public swimming pools. Their argument? “They’re just breasts.”

There’s nothing significant about breasts, after all, they don’t mean anything. Just rolls of fat with nipples attached. Nothing wrong with masturbation, either; it’s just semen.

It doesn’t end with sex, either. Remember when PZ Meyers procured a consecrated host and pierced it with a rusty nail and threw it in the trash? He did so because it was “just a cracker.”

Reductive materialism is the primary ideological drive behind the entire modern project – refusal to recognize this IMMEDIATE fact, or to follow it through to its logical conclusion when it IS recognized, is the source of ALL of modernity’s intellectual and moral errors.

I am deeply and immediately suspicious of any liberal who claims NOT to believe it: for how else can you believe simultaneously that sex is a meaningful endeavor, a natural language, pointing to a specific and valid end – and then demand that society discard the context in which that endeavor finds its natural and fullest expression? You cannot – such a person is either deeply confused at best or intentionally lying.
 
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