Thought Sin?

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Ascalon

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I know that bad thoughts are… bad. And so I ask God to help me not have bad thoughts. But sometimes… I feel a bad thought coming on… and I say “stop” to myself. Well, sometimes saying “stop” to myself worsens the thoughts that we’re coming to me… and overcome my mental shield. These new worsened bad thoughts are really, really, bad.

Now, these thoughts I have (the really bad ones)… I don’t want to think them. But it seems my mind is playing tricks on me and they come anyways. I don’t make them come… they just do. I do not enjoy them when they come, in fact I try and get them out as quickly as possible.

Am I held accountable for having these thoughts? I’m not sure what the public reaction is going to be here… you may think I’m a demon or you may think I’m obsessing over nothing. If you believe the latter, I ask you this: Why do they keep coming, and how do I stop them? If the first, then… what do I do?

Thanks for all the help. Please don’t be too harsh on me… thanks.

(To end on a positive note, I’m not possessed or anything! I think…)
 
Sometimes people who have a well developed conscious are pretty good about not doing bad things, yet thoughts are the hardest to conquer. Don’t be too hard on yourself. You are choosing to dismiss bad thoughts. Staying close to God through the Sacraments and prayer help enormously. Remember, to commit a mortal sin, you must do something that is seriously wrong, you must know it is wrong, and you must choose to do it anyway. It doesn’t sound like you are choosing to dwell on your bad thoughts. You are trying to dismiss them. In Confession I confess my bad thoughts. At every Mass we confess to God and to all our brothers and sisters that we have sinned in our thoughts and in our words, in what we have done and in what we have failed to do. We all do this. Talk to a priest about it.
 
Intrusive bad thoughts are just that: They pop in. They’re not rationally summoned. It’s pretty easy to dismiss them, since it’s impossible to think two things simultaneously. Substitute a good or neutral thought for the bad thought when things like this pop up. Say a very short prayer (such as Jesus, have mercy on me, or any reverent short thought that comes to mind, and repeat it until the spontaneous bad thought goes away.) You’re doing your level best to dismiss them, or work around them, and there is merit in resisting temptation. In other words, don’t entertain the bad thoughts, and certainly, don’t let them entertain you!
 
PRAY PRAY PRAY!!

There’s a great prayer I found in Fulton Sheen’s prayer book. (Get one or another prayer book!)

O Lord, my God, depart not from me. O my God, have regard to help me; for diverse evil thoughts and great fears have risen up against me, afflicting my soul. How shall I pass them without hurt? How shall I break through them?

[BIBLEDRB]Isaias 14:2[/BIBLEDRB]

I will open the gates of the prison, and reveal to thee hidden secrets.

Do, Lord, as Thou sayest, and let all these wicked thoughts flee from Thy face.

This is my hope and my only comfort, to fly to Thee in all tribulations, to confide in Thee, to call on Thee from my heart, and patiently to look for Thy consolation.
 
Ascalon said:
I know that bad thoughts are… bad. And so I ask God to help me not have bad thoughts. But sometimes… I feel a bad thought coming on… and I say “stop” to myself. Well, sometimes saying “stop” to myself worsens the thoughts that we’re coming to me… and overcome my mental shield. These new worsened bad thoughts are really, really, bad.

Now, these thoughts I have (the really bad ones)… I don’t want to think them. But it seems my mind is playing tricks on me and they come anyways. I don’t make them come… they just do. I do not enjoy them when they come, in fact I try and get them out as quickly as possible.

Am I held accountable for having these thoughts? I’m not sure what the public reaction is going to be here… you may think I’m a demon or you may think I’m obsessing over nothing. If you believe the latter, I ask you this: Why do they keep coming, and how do I stop them? If the first, then… what do I do?

Thanks for all the help. Please don’t be too harsh on me… thanks.

(To end on a positive note, I’m not possessed or anything! I think…)
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My guess is that you are a young person. You are aware that something is not right. You do not like it and want it changed. This awareness will lead you to the awareness of your need for God and God’s help. We are all broken. We all need fixing. Now you know that about yourself in these thoughts, but you are no different than anyone else. God loves you.

You are on a journey to God and the only way to avoid the perils which you recognize in bad thoughts is to call to Him and cling to Him. Always be mindful of the communion you have with your maker who loves you. You are never alone or apart from Him unless you choose to be.

There is not a saint in heaven who has not cried out to God for help. He is a help to the helpless. There is no time like the present to start crying. You have His promise to hear you.
 
Why try what I do when plagued with sinful thoughts or memories: I quickly say to myself “Get away from me satan” followed by a quick “Have mercy on me Lord, a sinner.” It usually works, but every so often when satan is persistant, I say a quick, silent Hail Mary and ask for her help. That always works.
 
George_Stegmeir said:
Why try what I do when plagued with sinful thoughts or memories: I quickly say to myself “Get away from me satan” followed by a quick “Have mercy on me Lord, a sinner.” It usually works, but every so often when satan is persistant, I say a quick, silent Hail Mary and ask for her help. That always works.
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Even recognising when thoughts start to get wierd is a grace.
 
(from previous posts of mine…you may find some helpful things)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned…

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters…for instance studying moral theology…but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem…but that is another question)

What should we do with* unwanted* sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them etc…

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them…and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid…but often they come uninvited)

First…Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life)
Another help…is the distinction between “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

(and these can happen to all of us by the way…)

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice is to say “yes” or “no”.

So relax about “unwanted thoughts”…sometimes they just come…you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc…but you can always say “no thank you” or just ignore the call and go about your business
 
Just to confirm…

Let’s say I’m having a bad thought. As soon as it comes I detect it and mark it off as bad. I try to defend myself knowing it’s bad. Yet it persists, even though I know it’s wrong. I continue to fight it.

From what I’ve been told, the above is not the best way to fight off the thought. But still, is it a sin?

Thanks… sorry if I’m making anyone repeat themselves or something.
 
What do you think, you only know the thought and how long you’ve had it, I’m taking its the same thought?
 
Ascalon said:
Just to confirm…

Let’s say I’m having a bad thought. As soon as it comes I detect it and mark it off as bad. I try to defend myself knowing it’s bad. Yet it persists, even though I know it’s wrong. I continue to fight it.

From what I’ve been told, the above is not the best way to fight off the thought. But still, is it a sin?

Thanks… sorry if I’m making anyone repeat themselves or something.
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See above long post 🙂
 
Ascalon said:
I know that bad thoughts are… bad. And so I ask God to help me not have bad thoughts. But sometimes… I feel a bad thought coming on… and I say “stop” to myself. Well, sometimes saying “stop” to myself worsens the thoughts that we’re coming to me… and overcome my mental shield. These new worsened bad thoughts are really, really, bad.

Now, these thoughts I have (the really bad ones)… I don’t want to think them. But it seems my mind is playing tricks on me and they come anyways. I don’t make them come… they just do. I do not enjoy them when they come, in fact I try and get them out as quickly as possible.

Am I held accountable for having these thoughts? I’m not sure what the public reaction is going to be here… you may think I’m a demon or you may think I’m obsessing over nothing. If you believe the latter, I ask you this: Why do they keep coming, and how do I stop them? If the first, then… what do I do?

Thanks for all the help. Please don’t be too harsh on me… thanks.

(To end on a positive note, I’m not possessed or anything! I think…)
Click to expand...
There are all kinds of temptations, but sexual ones are the most frequent.

Sexual temptations are a part of normal living. Jesus has spared some people from
them, one of them being St. Faustina, where he told her she would no longer be
bothered with them. She relates that from that moment she wasn’t. However, the
normal course of events is that we are, from time to time, going to be subjected
to those temptations. The next question is how to deal with them.

Prayer = God’s strength(grace).

Conclusion, without prayer, and sometimes lots of it, spells failure, impossibility.
A normal person that dodges prayer will not have the strength and endurance to
resist. No prayer, no purity. Noone can afford the luxury of not praying every
day. The real temptation is to SKIP prayers because of time, the late hour, busy,
lazy, tired, and plain “I just don’t feel like it”. Give in to those thoughts, and it is
the end of story. Prayer is ABSOLUTELY essential each and every day.

Rosary = great prayer.

If prayed well as possible, the rosary will work wonders. You have Mary’s own word
for it. There is a whole list of promises attached to the Rosary. And effective way
to pray is the way Mary suggests. There are other prayers that are quite good, but
off hand I don’t know of any as strong as this one.

Miraculous Medal = sign of Mary’s protection

This too was given to us by Mary as a sign of her protection and help. It is so simple
to get, and be blessed, and then wear. “Great graces” were promised for those who trust
her for them and pray to her. Whenever tempted, hold the medal, and ask Mary for one
of those “great graces” and she will never refuse you if you believe she will keep her
very own words. She also requested that it be given to everyone to wear.

So in conclusion, do all these things faithfully, and the miracle of purity and integrity becomes yours.

“When one does not love prayer, it is morally impossible for him to resist his passions.”
St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori
on prayer
ourladyswarriors.org/prayer/mustpray.htm
 
Ascalon said:
I know that bad thoughts are… bad. And so I ask God to help me not have bad thoughts. But sometimes… I feel a bad thought coming on… and I say “stop” to myself. Well, sometimes saying “stop” to myself worsens the thoughts that we’re coming to me… and overcome my mental shield. These new worsened bad thoughts are really, really, bad.

Now, these thoughts I have (the really bad ones)… I don’t want to think them. But it seems my mind is playing tricks on me and they come anyways. I don’t make them come… they just do. I do not enjoy them when they come, in fact I try and get them out as quickly as possible.

Am I held accountable for having these thoughts? I’m not sure what the public reaction is going to be here… you may think I’m a demon or you may think I’m obsessing over nothing. If you believe the latter, I ask you this: Why do they keep coming, and how do I stop them? If the first, then… what do I do?

Thanks for all the help. Please don’t be too harsh on me… thanks.

(To end on a positive note, I’m not possessed or anything! I think…)
Click to expand...
Ascalon,

A thought alone is not a sin.

What is a sin is the will which ENTERTAINS the thought – which it makes a home for it in the mind.

If you are struggling to avoid sexual thoughts yet they pop into your head anyway, that is not really a sin – just an unfortunate situation.
 
Well if its sexual , its normal for a young man to have thoughts like this often, and you are aware of it and apparently working on it, so not knowing what you mean really as long as your trying to get rid of the thoughts I would say not, you working on your temptations.
Now other people probably have a different opinion. but if you sit there and daydream on these thoughts then probably yes, but sounds like your trying not to think of them.
 
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