Thoughts about Church and how it "feels"

[mtr01]

Fizendell:

I suppose the difference is in my expectations… and if expectations are not met, then there is disappointment, hence leading to self-doubt, that I am not chosen or called - that I’m just trying to find a way out of my guilt, shame, fear, add as many as make sense.

It has also been said that you get out of it what you put into it. So, one could say to me - Fiz - GO to church - QUIT worrying so much about what you might or might not feel and GO FIND OUT!

Ok, ok, so I already said that to myself. I do tend to analyze everything to pieces before moving on.

Anyone else get that pit in their stomach when it’s time to do something outside of your normal routine - especially considering spiritual matters??!!

Thanks!

=)
Fiz

As sort of a follow-up to Tantum Ergo’s post, I don’t think a “funny internal feeling” is a valid way to assess one’s faith. Karl Keating addressed this issue quite well in a recent e-letter:

MINDING THE MIND

In another book, the posthumously published and hard to find “Proving God,” Knox quotes someone who noted that “an unintellectual salvation means an unsaved intellect.” I like that construction.

When it comes to accepting their faith, some Catholics seem to act like Mormons. When Mormons come to your door, they give you a copy of the “Book of Mormon” and ask you to read it. They say you will receive assurance that it is “another testament of Jesus Christ,” and that assurance will come by way of what they call a “burning in the bosom.” Catholic apologist Arnold Lunn used to call this kind of thing “fif,” which stands for “funny internal feeling.” You will know the “Book of Mormon” is true because you will feel all aflutter inside.

**That’s the kind of test not a few Catholics give to their own faith. They know it is true because it makes them feel good. This is an abandonment of the use of the mind. Our faith objectively is true, but truth is known by the intellect, not the emotions. The emotions may motivate us to investigate the truth of something, but they cannot establish its truth. That is a task for the mind.
**
If our faith were proved by “fif,” then those saints who underwent a dark night of the soul–I have in mind such luminaries as John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila–could not be said to have accepted the faith as true. For substantial periods they had the opposite of a “burning in the bosom,” but they never chucked the faith because, despite the lack of emotional highs, they knew it to be true because their minds told them so.

All Catholics need to remember that the virtue of faith has to do with the mind, not with the emotions. [emphasis mine]

catholic.com/newsletters/kke_041123.asp

In the end, I wouldn’t put too much stock in the “warm fuzzies”, or lack thereof.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

I posted this in another thread but it applies to your question as well. Hope it helps

***Dear friend

You know I have noticed that in faith people are relying on ‘I am feeling’…‘I was thinking’ etc etc

Now we are thinking and feeling creatures but faith is beyond just thoughts and feelings. It is a knowing and acceptance of knowing. This knowing cannot be explained by feeling or by thinking.

We simply know and therefore believe, though our knowing has no explanation other than it resides as truth in our hearts.

Therefore whatever we are feeling ‘dry, sad, happy or uplifted ’ etc or whatever we are thinking ’ doubtful, confused, confirmed or resolute’ our faith must endure above or inspite of all of this, or indeed it would not be faith.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa***

 

[MParedon]

When I read the OP a certain thing popped straight into my mind. I once read a very eloquent post on another board that really helped me understand. I can’t find that post now, but I can explain the gist of it. I hope it might help.

Real Faith is when you hold on and believe even when there are no emotional movements of joy (or in this case the warm/fuzzies). It is still believing even when you feel that there is no point and it’s useless. That Faith is the strongest and what one should strive for.

As for what the Church feels about those that don’t attend church. Yes, they are lost, but we feel heartbreak for them and also strong hope that they will someday join us. Also we recognize that they don’t have access to all the Truth and we can’t blame them for what they don’t know.

As for being judgmental people in church, there will always be people like that everywhere, but the grand thing about the Catholic Church, is that Mass is about the focus of our worship of God. The whole Mass is immersing ourselves in worship and bringing all our sorrow, pain, fustration, joy, struggle, thanksgiving and offering it to Him. It isn’t about what we want to get (warm/fuzzies) from God, it’s about what we want to give to God (worship).
There isn’t room for chattering about if our pew neighbor didn’t make it to Mass or if we didn’t see them in the Confession line last week.
That is why there is silence in the Nave, not because Catholics are a cold people who don’t want to talk to each other, but because we want to be respectful to the people in prayer that desperatly need that silent time with God, that focus that they might not get anywhere else where there are T.V.s, dinners to be made, passing cars, etc…
Also one of the genius doctrines of the Church is that we believe that we don’t know if someone is damned. That decision is up to God alone, we can’t know.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

I posted this on another thread but I think it may apply to your question in this thread as well. I hope this helps in some way, I wish I could help you more.

***…

You know I have noticed that in faith people are relying on ‘I am feeling’…‘I was thinking’ etc etc

Now we are thinking and feeling creatures but faith is beyond just thoughts and feelings. It is a knowing and acceptance of knowing. This knowing cannot be explained by feeling or by thinking.

We simply know and therefore believe, though our knowing has no explanation other than it resides as truth in our hearts.

Therefore whatever we are feeling ‘dry, sad, happy or uplifted ’ etc or whatever we are thinking ’ doubtful, confused, confirmed or resolute’ our faith must endure above or inspite of all of this, or indeed it would not be faith.***

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

I am completely spiritually, emotionally and psychologically satisfied when I participate in the Mass, receive holy communion or go to confession etc.
I think that when you don’t have the all the sacraments especially the Mass and confession you tend to try and compensate for it. That is probably why many non catholics try to stir themselves up so they can feel something tangible. We have 5 senses and we need to use these in the practise of religion. Catholics use all 5 senses at the Mass, as with the other sacraments.
A sacrament is an outward sign of an inward grace.
As a Catholic you have the entire teachings of Christ as he meant them to be understood. In other Church’s you have 30%, 50% , 80% etc.
Catholics are sinners, but there are Saints too. The Saints are held up as role models to us all. Pay no attention to the Catholics who seem judgemental etc. They are sinners you know. Look to those who were great imitators of Christ. The Saints are like St Paul. They say, " It is no loger I that lives, but Christ lives in me".
Us less perfect Christians are still being transformed into another Christ. The chief means for achieving this are the sacraments, prayer, self denial and good works. Catholics are supposed to struggle to acquire the virtues. Unfortunately not enough do this.
So don’t worry if you or someone you know is less than perfect.
You don’t need to enjoy the faith to grow in faith. It’s especially pleasing to God when we persevere inspite of feeling lousy, unmotivated and even sometimes repugnance towards anything spiritual. By our perseverance at such times we advance greatly in virtue. I recommend reading the book of Job in the OT.

 

[Exporter]

Fizendell,
You said you were Baptised and you were Confirmed. What does that mean? It means that on your soul there is an Indelible Mark. This Mark tells all Spiritual Beings that you are Marked for Jesus Christ…it says that your soul belongs to Jesus. The Holy Spirit has tugged on your heart to come back to the True, One Holy Catholic Church. The Father , the Son and the Holy Spirit know you and wants you to come back to the Sacraments, to the Fullnes of the Holy Mother Church.

It is said that the Holy Spirit never yells, he whispers. He is whispering to you. You have a free will. You can liosten to the Holy Spirit or you can turn your back on the Church for silly human reasons.

You wrote,"My fear is that if I return to the Church for all the reasons I can think up during the quiet moments of life, that I’ll become that judgemental person again and gag - I’m outta there.

Does God keep calling me? Will He prevent me from becoming that kind of person again?

Sorry this got so long… thanks for reading this far and thanks for your feedback."

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All you have to do is pray that your bad habits will leave. PRAY! If you will throw away your soul for ever JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A BAD HABIT - Is downright stupid. I said that way to get your attention. Save you soul!