Thoughts about fear and joy

[CradleJourney]

I would like some feedback (with kindness please ) about whether my thinking about fear and joy are in line with Catholic theology. I do not remember where I originally got these two thoughts from, but have been thinking / experiencing them on and off over a period of time and they seem to be truth to me, but I’d like some outside thoughts as well.

Regarding fear - it is not of God, nor part of God’s work in our lives, and a sign that I’m turning away from Him rather than towards Him.
I am not referring to the “fear” of God - the realization of how small and insignificant we are compared to His infinite goodness and mightiness if that makes sense.
Rather, I’m referring to fear/anxiety about the stuff of daily life - things to do with money, children, etc. I have had personal experience with the paralyzing fear of making a mistake - and thus being unable to do anything to work towards a solution for a problem. Or being so worried about something it’s all you can think about. It’s this kind of fear/anxiety that I’m referring to.

Regarding joy - That joy is the surest sign of God’s presence.
In this case I’m not referring to happiness or simple contentment, but the overwhelming sensation that fills you so full that in that moment, you can’t even think or analyze but only exist. Something you look back on in wonder and awe. A few moments when everything is just perfectly “right”. For me this has occurred a few rare but precious times - during a rafting trip, at an Easter Vigil mass, the birth of a child - I’m sure it’s different for everyone. I’ve been fortunate to know happiness, but this is something far, far beyond that - and not something that seems can be planned or anticipated (in my experience).

So my thought is that if both of the above are true, I can use them as guide posts - working to ever so slowly bring my path from one filled often with fear towards peace and hopefully - joy.

On the other hand, I admit my theological upbringing has been quite lacking and thought it might be prudent to get some outside opinions.

 

[underacloud]

Joy and peace are both considered fruits of the Holy Spirit. So yes, on a general level you seem to be on the right track.

Of course, may saints have written about what it is in life that is meant to bring us joy. We must be careful to not let the things of this world distract us from the true source of all joy - God Himself. In all things, we must direct our joy and thanksgiving towards God.

Peace - or living withouth fear - is a real challenge. We all worry about money, about our families, etc. We need to be responsible in these things, but always trusting in God.

Here is what, in brief, the catechism says are the fruits of the Holy Spirit, so you can add the rest of these as guide posts too:

1832 The fruits of the Spirit are perfections that the Holy Spirit forms in us as the first fruits of eternal glory. The tradition of the Church lists twelve of them: “charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity.”

 

[Eric_Hyom]

So many things in life are beyond our control, it seems to me that the only thing we can strive to control; is our reactions to life’s worries and problems.

Some years ago I had a mole removed, that might be cancerous, a month later there was a phone call from the doctor, he urgently wanted to see me, it was non Hodgkin Lymphoma, our best friend had died from this cancer. I have never once prayed for healing, my prayers have always been; for the wisdom, strength, peace and serenity to do God’s will, regardless as to what the cancer has in store for me. Over the next few months, there were more tests and more waiting for results.

I can only say, I have never once had a moment’s worry about cancer, on the contrary, I have experienced profound moments of peace and calm, beyond my understanding.

I have been a Street Pastor for the last six years, we go out in the streets until 3 -4 in the morning, we come into contact with drunks, anger, troubled people, drugs, and some wonderful people. We pray to do God’s will before we go out, there was one occasion we witnessed a dozen people fighting around 2 am after the pubs had closed. As we approached; I saw a man punched to the ground, a man was being kicked whilst on the floor, a woman was punched in the face; more people arrived trying to provoke more fighting; we walked in the middle of all this turmoil and somehow it calmed down. We stopped with them for twenty minutes; and it ended with lots of people shaking our hands.

I was the youngest pastor there at the tender age of 62, the other two were ladies in their seventies were ladies in their seventies… I can only say that whilst in the middle of all this anger, I experienced a peace and serenity that was beyond my understanding.

Lord, grant me the peace and serenity to live with the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can.
And the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[Petaro]

I would like some feedback (with kindness please ) about whether my thinking about fear and joy are in line with Catholic theology. I do not remember where I originally got these two thoughts from, but have been thinking / experiencing them on and off over a period of time and they seem to be truth to me, but I’d like some outside thoughts as well.

Regarding fear - it is not of God, nor part of God’s work in our lives, and a sign that I’m turning away from Him rather than towards Him.
I am not referring to the “fear” of God - the realization of how small and insignificant we are compared to His infinite goodness and mightiness if that makes sense.
Rather, I’m referring to fear/anxiety about the stuff of daily life - things to do with money, children, etc. I have had personal experience with the paralyzing fear of making a mistake - and thus being unable to do anything to work towards a solution for a problem. Or being so worried about something it’s all you can think about. It’s this kind of fear/anxiety that I’m referring to.

Regarding joy - That joy is the surest sign of God’s presence.
In this case I’m not referring to happiness or simple contentment, but the overwhelming sensation that fills you so full that in that moment, you can’t even think or analyze but only exist. Something you look back on in wonder and awe. A few moments when everything is just perfectly “right”. For me this has occurred a few rare but precious times - during a rafting trip, at an Easter Vigil mass, the birth of a child - I’m sure it’s different for everyone. I’ve been fortunate to know happiness, but this is something far, far beyond that - and not something that seems can be planned or anticipated (in my experience).

So my thought is that if both of the above are true, I can use them as guide posts - working to ever so slowly bring my path from one filled often with fear towards peace and hopefully - joy.

On the other hand, I admit my theological upbringing has been quite lacking and thought it might be prudent to get some outside opinions.

You raise two emotions, fear and joy and seem to have experienced them at a level most people would not.
Fear is a natural survival emotion that warns us against natural dangers, eg fear of heights, snakes, spiders, sharks, mother in laws etc. There is nothing evil in this sort of fear; however overriding fear can be a real symptom of a clinical anxiety (that is, one that requires medical assistance to overcome.)
Joy is also founded in the release of synaptic neurotransmitters in the brain like dopamine, that affects the reward centers. Again very natural and can be induced by stressful situations (such as birthing a child or even water rafting.) Again very natural and not necessarily spiritual or from God. (Most of our very best sins are pleasurable.)

The joy you fleeting felt should be treasured in your memories in this vale of tears and perhaps it is a forewarning of the heights of joy we will feel at the sight of the living God.
So I in no way disparage the joy of the saints, but this is not our normal lot.
These are my thoughts on the emotions you express and I hope they give a different perspective without suggesting the illegitimacy of your analysis.

 

[Petaro]

I would like some feedback (with kindness please ) about whether my thinking about fear and joy are in line with Catholic theology. I do not remember where I originally got these two thoughts from, but have been thinking / experiencing them on and off over a period of time and they seem to be truth to me, but I’d like some outside thoughts as well.

Regarding fear - it is not of God, nor part of God’s work in our lives, and a sign that I’m turning away from Him rather than towards Him.
I am not referring to the “fear” of God - the realization of how small and insignificant we are compared to His infinite goodness and mightiness if that makes sense.
Rather, I’m referring to fear/anxiety about the stuff of daily life - things to do with money, children, etc. I have had personal experience with the paralyzing fear of making a mistake - and thus being unable to do anything to work towards a solution for a problem. Or being so worried about something it’s all you can think about. It’s this kind of fear/anxiety that I’m referring to.

Regarding joy - That joy is the surest sign of God’s presence.
In this case I’m not referring to happiness or simple contentment, but the overwhelming sensation that fills you so full that in that moment, you can’t even think or analyze but only exist. Something you look back on in wonder and awe. A few moments when everything is just perfectly “right”. For me this has occurred a few rare but precious times - during a rafting trip, at an Easter Vigil mass, the birth of a child - I’m sure it’s different for everyone. I’ve been fortunate to know happiness, but this is something far, far beyond that - and not something that seems can be planned or anticipated (in my experience).

So my thought is that if both of the above are true, I can use them as guide posts - working to ever so slowly bring my path from one filled often with fear towards peace and hopefully - joy.

On the other hand, I admit my theological upbringing has been quite lacking and thought it might be prudent to get some outside opinions.

You raise two emotions, fear and joy and seem to have experienced them at a level most people would not.
Fear is a natural survival emotion that warns us against natural dangers, eg fear of heights, snakes, spiders, sharks, mother in laws etc. There is nothing evil in this sort of fear; however overriding fear can be a real symptom of a clinical anxiety (that is, one that requires medical assistance to overcome.)
Joy is also founded in the release of synaptic neurotransmitters in the brain like dopamine, that affects the reward centers. Again very natural and can be induced by stressful situations (such as birthing a child or even water rafting.) Again very natural and not necessarily spiritual or from God. (Most of our very best sins are pleasurable.)

The joy you fleeting felt should be treasured in your memories in this vale of tears and perhaps it is a forewarning of the heights of joy we will feel at the sight of the living God.
So I in no way disparage the joy of the saints, but this is not our normal lot.
These are my thoughts on the emotions you express and I hope they give a different perspective without suggesting the illegitimacy of your analysis.

 

[friardchips]

The joy you fleeting felt should be treasured in your memories in this vale of tears and perhaps it is a forewarning of the heights of joy we will feel at the sight of the living God…

• it also sounds as if he’s encouraging you to keep advancing!

 

[CradleJourney]

Joy and peace are both considered fruits of the Holy Spirit. So yes, on a general level you seem to be on the right track.

Of course, may saints have written about what it is in life that is meant to bring us joy. We must be careful to not let the things of this world distract us from the true source of all joy - God Himself. In all things, we must direct our joy and thanksgiving towards God.

Peace - or living withouth fear - is a real challenge. We all worry about money, about our families, etc. We need to be responsible in these things, but always trusting in God.

Here is what, in brief, the catechism says are the fruits of the Holy Spirit, so you can add the rest of these as guide posts too:

Thank you. I’ve made not of that location in the catechism for future reference

 

[CradleJourney]

So many things in life are beyond our control, it seems to me that the only thing we can strive to control; is our reactions to life’s worries and problems.

Some years ago I had a mole removed, that might be cancerous, a month later there was a phone call from the doctor, he urgently wanted to see me, it was non Hodgkin Lymphoma, our best friend had died from this cancer. I have never once prayed for healing, my prayers have always been; for the wisdom, strength, peace and serenity to do God’s will, regardless as to what the cancer has in store for me. Over the next few months, there were more tests and more waiting for results.

I can only say, I have never once had a moment’s worry about cancer, on the contrary, I have experienced profound moments of peace and calm, beyond my understanding.

I have been a Street Pastor for the last six years, we go out in the streets until 3 -4 in the morning, we come into contact with drunks, anger, troubled people, drugs, and some wonderful people. We pray to do God’s will before we go out, there was one occasion we witnessed a dozen people fighting around 2 am after the pubs had closed. As we approached; I saw a man punched to the ground, a man was being kicked whilst on the floor, a woman was punched in the face; more people arrived trying to provoke more fighting; we walked in the middle of all this turmoil and somehow it calmed down. We stopped with them for twenty minutes; and it ended with lots of people shaking our hands.

I was the youngest pastor there at the tender age of 62, the other two were ladies in their seventies were ladies in their seventies… I can only say that whilst in the middle of all this anger, I experienced a peace and serenity that was beyond my understanding.

Lord, grant me the peace and serenity to live with the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can.
And the wisdom to know the difference.

God is so good Thank you for sharing your story. I have had an experience (not so intense though!) but during the time our family was dealing with my father’s passing that was similar - where “somehow it calmed down”. I was often prompted during those days to say or do something that was quite out of my normal reactions but my following those prompts, it seemed that I was able to help my dad and others get through it.

 

[CradleJourney]

You raise two emotions, fear and joy and seem to have experienced them at a level most people would not.
Fear is a natural survival emotion that warns us against natural dangers, eg fear of heights, snakes, spiders, sharks, mother in laws etc. There is nothing evil in this sort of fear; however overriding fear can be a real symptom of a clinical anxiety (that is, one that requires medical assistance to overcome.)

If I had to use imagery to describe my marriage, my husband would be a boulder and I would be a lake of water. I do tend to experience large shifts in my mood, my emotions, my energy levels, etc. while (thankfully) he is strong, quiet, patient, firm and consistent. It works out well for us. I have had (and continue to experience) a great deal of “adventure” (life experiences good and bad) over the course of my life and so it’s somewhat difficult for me to determine if my fears and anxiety are to the level of seeking professional help or if it’s just another valley I’m traveling through for a time. But what I’m getting from these responses is that I’m correct in my thought that fear (when not associated with actual danger) is something that is not “of God” and I need to find ways of acknowledging it, letting go of it, and moving on.

The joy you fleeting felt should be treasured in your memories in this vale of tears and perhaps it is a forewarning of the heights of joy we will feel at the sight of the living God.
So I in no way disparage the joy of the saints, but this is not our normal lot.
These are my thoughts on the emotions you express and I hope they give a different perspective without suggesting the illegitimacy of your analysis.

I like the idea of it being a foreshadowing of the joy we will feel in God’s presence. I know it is not something that is to be experienced on a regular basis, so I know objectively I can’t go hunting for them and use them as some kind of spiritual report card (Oh, 3 joys today - I’m closer to God! LOL!)

It’s more like I’ve been in a state of chaos for so long that I’m trying to remind myself what the path of peace feels like. What is and what is not of God.

Side note: my favorite OT story is that of creation - because of God creating order from chaos. My favorite psalm 40:02-03 - speaking of God drawing one out of the pit / muck / chaos and setting one’s feet upon rock.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I know my posts may not be completely coherent and I appreciate your patience. This is the kind of topic that would simply draw blank stares or even whispered comments should I attempt to bring it up with family or friends.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

I find peace through striving to live by…

Philippians 4

New International Version (NIV)

Final Exhortations

4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

Thanks for Their Gifts

10 I rejoiced greatly in the Lord that at last you renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you were concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11 I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength.