Thoughts about sex? Desire versus lust

[PinkClouds]

Hi Everyone,

So I’m dating this man whom I’m very much in love with. We do not intend to have sex or any other sexual activity until marriage. However, we are really attracted to each other…if you know what I’m saying.

I guess my question is, when does a sexual thought or feeling become sinful? I often have feelings and thoughts about him that just come to me. I would never act on them until marriage but I feel guilty because I want to have sex with him, even though I won’t until after we are married. I love him so much and I often wish I could express my love physically, but I never do or will because I know God wants me to wait until marriage; I want to wait until marriage. I guess I’m asking, is it sinful to want to have sex with him even if I don’t intend to until marriage? I can’t help how I feel, but I can help how I act. That’s why I feel like I’m not doing anything wrong…but I just want to make sure I’m not committing any lustful sins.

Also, how does one know when they are experiencing sexual desire vs. the sin of lust? Thanks and sorry this post has so much private content in it…I just really need some advice.

 

[Kelfa28]

This is an interesting question.

It’s certainly not a mortal sin as there is no action to carry out.

I’m married but my husband and I practice NFP and we abstain when I’m fertile. It’s tough to abstain when your married and sex is perfectly okay and encouraged. I find myself longing for my husband and I do go to confession for these thoughts from time to time. My thoughts tend to be far more “lustful” as I know what I want from my husband in specific detail because we’ve experienced marital intimacy many times.

I can’t see a general desire to experience the marital act to be considered lustful. But imagining specific acts that enhance pleasure would be considered lustful.

I suppose a trip to confession, if you aren’t sure, wouldn’t be out of the question. I know I still go to confession even if I’m not entirely sure if I’ve sinned or not.

 

[ChibiViolet]

If you will such thoughts or feelings for the sake of pleasure than that is lust.

 

[Burdensome1]

I can’t help how I feel, but I can help how I act. That’s why I feel like I’m not doing anything wrong…but I just want to make sure I’m not committing any lustful sins.

Also, how does one know when they are experiencing sexual desire vs. the sin of lust?

Thinking " is <beautiful / wonderful> I can’t wait to make love to <him / Her> on our wedding night" is about the most natural, Catholic thing in the world.

Spending time visualizing the act or fantasizing about the act to excite yourself is not only inappropriate and wrong, it’s also just personally frustrating. You know you have to wait, so don’t drive yourself crazy if at all possible, and do the virtuous thing - attempt to think about something else if you are getting carried away with sex thoughts.

If you are are desiring the other person because you love them, want to be married to them, and want to be with them for the rest of your life and build a family with them, that’s the good kind of sexual desire. You knew that. If you are fantasizing about the act because you are getting a private, personal thrill from it in your mind, that’s getting lustful. If it gets so bad you get tempted to some sinful act, along or with fiancee, that’s definitely lustful.

I can say I WISH I had such a level head and adult understanding of love and sex when I was engaged as you do.

 

[PinkClouds]

Thinking " is <beautiful / wonderful> I can’t wait to make love to <him / Her> on our wedding night" is about the most natural, Catholic thing in the world.

Spending time visualizing the act or fantasizing about the act to excite yourself is not only inappropriate and wrong, it’s also just personally frustrating. You know you have to wait, so don’t drive yourself crazy if at all possible, and do the virtuous thing - attempt to think about something else if you are getting carried away with sex thoughts.

If you are are desiring the other person because you love them, want to be married to them, and want to be with them for the rest of your life and build a family with them, that’s the good kind of sexual desire. You knew that. If you are fantasizing about the act because you are getting a private, personal thrill from it in your mind, that’s getting lustful. If it gets so bad you get tempted to some sinful act, along or with fiancee, that’s definitely lustful.

I can say I WISH I had such a level head and adult understanding of love and sex when I was engaged as you do.

We aren’t engaged yet, but it’s heading there fast and we talk about getting married in the near future.

I certainly don’t spend time fantasizing about sex with him, but sometimes a thought comes to me and I get a little lost in it…but I try to snap out of it and think about something else. It can be hard though.

So from what I’m gathering so far from all the prior comments is that what I’m experiencing is not sinful? I have the tendency to fall into scrupulosity so I just wanted to make sure.

I really do love him. I want to spend my life with him, build a family with him. I want to make him happy in every way possible. I certainly would never want to objectify him in anyway and I would never want to offend God. But sometimes he’ll say little romantic things (nothing graphic) that try to explain his intentions with me like “Someday, I’m going to show you how much I love you” and a rush of passion washes over me. Thoughts come in my head…I just love him so much, but I want to be able to know definitively how I can determine if I have sinned or not.

So from your comment above, are you saying that if one is tempted to perform a sexual act it is lustful? But what if one wants to perform a sexual act with the person he/she is in love with but does not want to do it and does not do it before marriage because they know it’s wrong? Like I said, I can’t really help that I want to be intimate with him, but I certainly don’t fantasize about it or plan to do anything sexual prior to marriage. So…even though I don’t plan to be intimate with him until marriage, is it bad that I want to be with him physically, even if I don’t plan on it?

Thanks for your help everyone, I welcome as much advice as possible!

 

[themonk86]

Hey PinkClouds,

First, I would like to say that I also respect your desire to wait to have a sexual relationship until marriage. Now to answer your question yes it would be sinful to have sex outside of marriage. When it comes to your thoughts about him I would say if the thought comes to your head then no it is not sinful, it is your natural desire to be with him which is okay. But if you deliberately dwell on sexual acts with him or fantasize about them, then that’s when it becomes sinful.

Hope this helps and God Bless!

 

[PinkClouds]

Hey PinkClouds,

First, I would like to say that I also respect your desire to wait to have a sexual relationship until marriage. Now to answer your question yes it would be sinful to have sex outside of marriage. When it comes to your thoughts about him I would say if the thought comes to your head then no it is not sinful, it is your natural desire to be with him which is okay. But if you deliberately dwell on sexual acts with him or fantasize about them, then that’s when it becomes sinful.

Hope this helps and God Bless!

Ok, so it’s not bad if it just comes to me? Thanks for your help! I certainly don’t purposefully daydream or fantasize about being intimate with him, but thoughts sometimes come to me and I kind of just get swept up in them. Is that bad? I wish it wouldn’t happen, but it does.

 

[losh14]

Thank you for sharing something so personal so openly. That takes courage and I hope what you find is useful and respectful to you and your beloved.

So I’m dating this man whom I’m very much in love with. We do not intend to have sex or any other sexual activity until marriage.

I’ll start here - keep your guard up. It’s so easy to walk into it and it can destroy so much. If you marry for the right reasons, marry sooner rather than later. My wife and I dated for 4 years (2 of those long distance) before marriage and it helped temper our young and very passionate longing for one another into something more mature. But if I had been ready for marriage when I met her it would have been a much shorter courtship.

I guess my question is, when does a sexual thought or feeling become sinful?

If it comes to you and you can let it go, thats fine. We live noisy lives and have a lot of garbage floating around, some of it silly (I’ll tell you about the Communist Banana some other time) and some of it quite horrible (the example in one baby book as “we all hit that point where we want to throw a crying baby out the window just to get some quiet”), and quite a bit of it sexual because we have that drive. So if it comes unbidden and you can let it go, no sin, just garbage.

Obviously if you will it, that’s sinful or at least tantamount. But if you don’t will the thought but you can’t let it go either, be wary. It may be that you’re in a situation of near occasion to sin - a movie or book you’re involved with, or a conversation with a friend of less wholesome persuasion.

I guess I’m asking, is it sinful to want to have sex with him even if I don’t intend to until marriage? I can’t help how I feel,

What you can’t help isn’t sin. And if we didn’t feel such gravitational attraction to one another, it may be less easy to fall in love with the other person. Remember that all sex is really seeking intimacy, which isn’t always sexual but is always essential in a close relationship.

Also, how does one know when they are experiencing sexual desire vs. the sin of lust?

If you’re “running hot”. If you can’t stop thinking about it - not just him, but the act itself. If you find it difficult to concentrate, if you are irritated upon having your attention shifted to something else. That’s certainly a point of sin if you remain consciously in that state because you’re now disordered.

I certainly don’t spend time fantasizing about sex with him, but sometimes a thought comes to me and I get a little lost in it…but I try to snap out of it and think about something else. It can be hard though.

Sniffing vinegar is a quick distractor. So is ice on the wrist. If you really need it.

I have the tendency to fall into scrupulosity so I just wanted to make sure.

I was starting to wonder. Having an excessive focus on your beau and an excessive focus on the possibility of causing sin are related.

But sometimes he’ll say little romantic things (nothing graphic) that try to explain his intentions with me like “Someday, I’m going to show you how much I love you” and a rush of passion washes over me. Thoughts come in my head…

In such an instance, consider that he may one day show up with an RV to show you how much he loves you by showing you the country. It’s a possibility, isn’t it? Does that at least take your mind off the other thing for a moment?

So from your comment above, are you saying that if one is tempted to perform a sexual act it is lustful?

If mere temptation were sin then Satan would always win. You yourself know the point between where you merely enjoy a passing thought and where you open yourself to being enraptured by the thought. Obviously sex is pleasurable - one purpose of sex is for husbands and wives to know a selfless and self-giving intimate love and take delight in one another. That can be done thankfully or selfishly. So if you ever find your pleasure at the thought straying where you are concerned, thank God for the gift of such intimacy and pray for ardent, life-long love, fertility and the grace to always find reason to give your husband a smile - with or without that physical love.

 

[losh14]

I certainly don’t purposefully daydream or fantasize about being intimate with him, but thoughts sometimes come to me and I kind of just get swept up in them.

Perhaps this will help - I frequently find myself daydreaming about my wife, whom I’ve loved for a decade and with whom I’m more in love with now than I was even on our wedding day. I often find that I think about a recent intimate moment, and one thing that brings me back down from that high is the knowledge that, after I’ve spent 9 or 10 hours working and she at home with our small children, she’ll have no interest in lovemaking. So I spare myself some disappointment and even discomfort by returning to task, whather that’s a meeting or a spreadsheet.

If it makes you fall, it’s sin. If it degrades your love, it’s sin. If it degrades you, it’s sin.
If it gives you a moment’s smile and moves on, accept graciously the hope for a happy future.

 

[stephe1987]

Passing thoughts are not sinful, but dwelling on them is. Be careful or you’ll drive yourself mad with lust. There are other things to be done right now, and when the time comes, you will eventually be able to make love to your new husband.

Remember, there is a time and a place for things. Dating is a time for discerning if the person you’re dating is right for you (at least a year), and the engagement period (six month minimum) is about preparing for marriage. One of the biggest reasons not to have sex outside of marriage (other than offending God) is that it creates premature emotional attachments to a person who might not be right for you. These attachments tend to cloud judgment and make people overlook the red flags because the chemicals in their brain tell them they’re “in love.” Think how many bad relationships could have been avoided or ended sooner (all those years wasted with the wrong person) if it weren’t for lust! People should get married because they are in love, want to spend their life together, can’t imagine their life without the person, and are compatible (beliefs, family size, finances, etc.)–get married for the right reasons, not the wrong reasons.

 

[Theflipside]

I like what burdensome1 said.

Attraction and desire aren’t lust because they aren’t to the point of ‘pleasure for its own sake’ or obsession. While I’m actually neutral on the premarital sex issue, lust is considered a deadly sin for a reason.

I guess the best thing I can come up with is that attraction and desire still have thought behind them, whereas lust is more of a mindless obsession.

 

[austenbosten]

So you are sexually attracted to your boyfriend. Well that’s perfectly normal. I would say your relationship wouldn’t be good (assuming you have a normal healthy libido) if you didn’t have unconscious thoughts streaming through your head time to time about the Wedding night and wanting to share that with your hubby and desiring your hubby to be your boyfriend.

One of the Sisters reminded me last night that Love is an act of Free Will. Well so is sin…if you do not will these sexual thoughts, then it is merely desire and not lust. Don’t worry. Lust is a willful act to take a human life and treat it as a commodity for your own selfish desires.

Quote not mine A question being answered on Chastity.com

To begin with, your sexual attraction toward [others] has been stamped into your heart by God, not by the devil. There is nothing sinful about being sexually attracted to a [guy] It is normal and healthy. Do not feel guilty about sexual attraction because it is not the same thing as lust. Just because you have strong desires, this does not mean that you are impure.

Lust is a different matter because it is a conscious act of the will to allow your mind to imagine illicit sexual acts. Lust treats the person as an object—a thing to be used for your pleasure. Therefore it is a distortion of love, and it will never satisfy. Illicit sexual acts such as premarital sex—or imagining premarital sex—are always incomplete.

Jesus wants us to have the fullness of love and not sell ourselves short with lust. So he warned us that whoever looks lustfully at a woman has already committed adultery with her in his heart (Matt. 5:28). By saying this, Jesus is not condemning us but is calling us. Work as Saint Paul did to “take every thought captive to obey Christ” (2 Cor. 10:5).

To sum up you’re okay, no sin to my knowledge is being committed.

 

[Bookcat]

It’s certainly not a mortal sin as there is no action to carry out.

Clarification: important to note that mortal sin need not involve any external action.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#III

Entertaining such thoughts in a lustful way – delighting by choice (consent) in them or in a deliberate complacency in unchaste thoughts (taking delight in them)…or evil desires etc such are examples of gravely sinful internal thoughts. Ones confessor can help one in this area. (See Catholic Sexual Ethics by Lawler et all -OSV and other sources).

To have some thought go through ones mind out of the blue say – and one not consent to it but rather turn ones mind to something else – is more on the side of an act of the virtue of chastity --not sin.

Temptation is different then consent to sin.

When set aside --resisted – one can grow in the virtues of chastity and modesty.

Note too that one ought not “overly fear” their arrival either -for such fear can bring them more. Rather if they should come --simply turn your attention elsewhere.

---

More from the Catechism:

2520 Baptism confers on its recipient the grace of purification from all sins. But the baptized must continue to struggle against concupiscence of the flesh and disordered desires. With God’s grace he will prevail

• by the virtue and gift of chastity, for chastity lets us love with upright and undivided heart;
• by purity of intention which consists in seeking the true end of man: with simplicity of vision, the baptized person seeks to find and to fulfill God’s will in everything;313
• by purity of vision, external and internal; by discipline of feelings and imagination; by refusing all complicity in impure thoughts that incline us to turn aside from the path of God’s commandments: “Appearance arouses yearning in fools”;314
• by prayer:

I thought that continence arose from one’s own powers, which I did not recognize in myself. I was foolish enough not to know . . . that no one can be continent unless you grant it. For you would surely have granted it if my inner groaning had reached your ears and I with firm faith had cast my cares on you.315

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a9.htm#II

(more to read there and below)

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#II

If such desires or thoughts happen to one unsought etc – *do not consent *–and turn your attention etc elsewhere.

 

[Bookcat]

Glad your seeking to follow Christ in chastity! As you say you want to love your boyfriend.and doing otherwise will not be loving him but contrary to such love.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/dating.htm from a writer at the EWTN Theology dept…it will be of great help in your relationship --but note they are focusing here on the relationship -not on “thoughts or desires” per se…but it will still be helpful.

(One note though on this reading…I would note that when they say “as soon as he begins to enjoy…” under “pure intent”… it would mean before knowing consent…)

 

[PinkClouds]

Thank you everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut and advice! It really means a lot to me, and it has really helped me out a lot.

I’ve now realized that what I’m experiencing is perfectly normal and I have nothing to feel guilty about as long as I don’t willfully give into lust, which I won’t. I respect God, my boyfriend, and myself too much to ever do that.

I guess it was hard for me to ask this question because, even though women experience sexual desire quite often, we never really talk about it in our culture.

You hear all the time about how women should be modest for men and the reasons why, but the topic of female sexual arousal is rarely touched upon. For men, desire and arousal is more concrete and easier to identify than women’s. Since arousal for men is primarily triggered through the visual sense, it’s a lot easier to identify sources of temptation and ways to avoid it.

For women, it’s much more ambiguous. Arousal can vary from woman to woman and it’s very hard to p(name removed by moderator)oint and predict what is going to trigger it…Since it’s hard to predict it’s hard to avoid. So I guess it’s easier to learn ways to deal with it directly than it is to try to avoid it like men can do. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure it’s very, **very **hard for men too, I just wish more was published on female sexuality and purity for her own sake as well as for men’s.

God Bless you all, and thanks again!