Thoughts on 53% Divorce Rate?

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PetraG isn’t true that in order to pursue an Annulment in the Catholic Church, the couple first has to have a Divorce Decree to submit, along with other Documentation such as Witness Statements, to the Tribunal? Perhaps that’s where the confusion lies, since you have to be legally Divorced to receive an Annulment?
 
ATraveller said:
Divorce is down likely due to marriage going down. Can’t get divorced without being married first.
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But Marriage isn’t going down…the amount of Marriages are increasing and at the same time Divorces are decreasing. This is great news! For individual families as well as for our society.
 
phil19034 said:
Chaste couples have no choice but to discern because they are not having sex and therefore sexual compatibility isn’t on the table.
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I think they can still screw it up (by being over-focused on the sex they’re not having), but yes, it is a more favorable situation.
phil19034 said:
And older professions (even if having premarital sex) are often set in their lives and are typically far more forthcoming with their significant other regarding what they are looking for in a spouse. So while they might be fornicating, they are still discerning (even if only out of being cynical or selfish).
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That’s an interesting point.

Or, it may simply be much more obvious who each person is with older people. Younger people are still largely potential–you can’t really tell yet who they are going to be, good or bad. (Come to think of it, this may contribute to the higher divorce rate for marriages with age gaps.)
phil19034 said:
Also the two top reasons for divorce are: money issues and differences regarding raising kids. Older, professionals are typically already financially set and often (not always) similar in mindset, as they don’t fall for the “opposites attract” cliche that they young fall far.
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Right.
 
TEdwards said:
A majority of Catholics do view annulment as the equivalent of a Catholic divorce. No fiction there. Standard pastoral care regimes for those impacted by anullment needs improvement. Addressing the problems with Catholic divorce has to include how Catholics understand anullment. There’s lots of room for education on the cradle-to-grave experiences with Catholic marriage including the application of anullment.
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The problem is people confuse pastoral care for general teaching about marriage.

Suppose a doctor decides he does not want smokers to feel unwelcome or judged. He wants them to come regularly for medical care. He briefly mentions smoking to them as a health risk, and encourages them, once, to quit, but does not dwell on it. He knows they are addicted. This might be the “pastoral” approach; all well and good.

But suppose this catches on. There are no more anti smoking ads on TV, because this is “negative”. There is no anti smoking education in schools, because this is “judgmental”.

The problem is that our well intentioned desire to be compassionate towards addicted smokers would be spilling over to our information about smoking in general; and this leads more young people to start, or continue, smoking.

Likewise, our desire to be caring towards one group of persons - husbands and wives who have tried, very hard for years - to build and then try to save a marriage - is spilling over to the way marriage is taught in general. Our “pastoral” approach to Marriage - re: the 45 year old mom - is getting communicated to her 15 year old daughter, thinking about marriage in her own future.

We are fearful of saying anything about indissolubility of marriage to the 15 year old because her mom might overhear that, and feel guilty, which we don’t want anyone to feel in 2018.
 
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Commenter, Thx for the observation; you’re right again… and civil, too.
 
I think he means the marriage rate has slowed considerably as people are getting married later.

So like the market, there may eventually be a “correction”, with an increase in the rate of folks over 40 and 50 divorcing farther down the line.
 
Wife.of.Gabriel said:
PetraG isn’t true that in order to pursue an Annulment in the Catholic Church, the couple first has to have a Divorce Decree to submit, along with other Documentation such as Witness Statements, to the Tribunal? Perhaps that’s where the confusion lies, since you have to be legally Divorced to receive an Annulment?
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A civil divorce, in the eyes of the Church, is a legal division of assets and assignment of legally-binding duties that can be morally permissible for a couple that canon law allows to separate with the bond remaining. Until there is a finding that the marriage was not valid, the marriage is presumed to be valid.

I have been told a legal divorce prior to beginning an investigation into the validity of a marriage is required in order to avoid testimony against a valid marriage that might be going through temporary difficulties that could mend. The Church does not want the investigation process itself to have the accidental effect of alienating the affections of validly-married couples. If the couples have cause to separate with the bond remaining to the point that a divorce is morally permissible, however, that danger is greatly diminished. In that case, so the theory goes, at least one spouse in the couple has resolved to live permanently separated even if the bond is valid.
 
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We are all humans, and humans make mistakes. We now live in modern times where no one has to live a full life of misery because they chose poorly. That is it, in a nutshell. I think it is an improvement over times gone by when a total life could be wasted by being hitched to someone who was abusive, or suffering with mental illness for which there was no relief, or lazy, or a cheater, or any one of a thousand things that can bring unbearable suffering to an innocent spouse.
 
Amen!!!..🙏
Which is why the Catholic Church provides for annulments in certain cases.
 
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Very few of the scenarios mentioned by @QwertyGirl are, by themselves grounds for annulment.

Civil divorce without remarriage may be permissible though.
 
QwertyGirl said:
We are all humans, and humans make mistakes. We now live in modern times where no one has to live a full life of misery because they chose poorly. That is it, in a nutshell. I think it is an improvement over times gone by when a total life could be wasted by being hitched to someone who was abusive, or suffering with mental illness for which there was no relief, or lazy, or a cheater, or any one of a thousand things that can bring unbearable suffering to an innocent spouse.
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These are all arguments against getting married in the first place, since any of us are prone to do all those bad things. These arguments also rule out having children, who can do bad things to us, causing us misery. In fact it would rule out going on dates, partly because of date rape in the short run, but also dates lead to marriage misery. Friendships too, since friends can betray you.

On the other hand, people in most, if not all, civilizations have found that permanent marriage is of value, something they specifically want more than temporary contractual relationships.
 
Most of the time the issues I listed, or similar ones, don’t show up until later in the marriage. Of course if you knew these things about your spouse before you married them, you would probably not.

I just stated the why. Everyone will have their own opinion on what is moral, or not.
 
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QwertyGirl said:
Most of the time the issues I listed, or similar ones, don’t show up until later in the marriage. Of course if you knew these things about your spouse before you married them, you would probably not.

I just stated the why. Everyone will have their own opinion on what is moral, or not.
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There seems to be a natural desire for indissoluble marriage, by a majority of people, in a majority of times and places in human history. Even in countries where an atheistic system has held control for generations, they have been unable to crush this ideal. It keeps springing up.
 
commenter said:
There seems to be a natural desire for indissoluble marriage, by a majority of people, in a majority of times and places in human history. Even in countries where an atheistic system has held control for generations, they have been unable to crush this ideal. It keeps springing up.
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I think people don’t like to admit they are wrong. And that extends to not liking it when other people admit they were wrong, and then take corrective action. Human nature is a funny thing sometimes.
 
I attended a Mass for separated or divorced Catholics years ago. (I was there only to assist in a prayer team, and refreshments afterwards). The sermon seemed to focus heavily on apologizing for harsh, condemning actions of the Church in the past, and not much else.
(That priest later left the Catholic Church, and essentially worked per diem as an independent priest, outside any connection to the Church, doing Masses, weddings, etc.)

Afterwards, one woman got up to speak. She said that when she was growing up, the Church was very negative about divorce, making it sound very sad. Now she is divorced. She is now sad. So her anger now is against the Catholic Church.

This is the kind of logic we are facing nowadays. I wondered why no anger at the secular society, especially the media? Hasn’t the media in recent decades misled people, omitting the value of indissoluble marriage, exaggerating the dangers of remaining married, and liberty and empowerment of divorce?
 
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I wouldn’t blame the media here. We have evolved. People don’t tolerate what they don’t have to, anymore.

My view of marriage is not the Catholic view, (I am agnostic), so I believe taking a lifelong vow is rather foolish and short-sighted. Healthy people grow and change throughout life. If you are healthy, you aren’t the same person at 45 that you were at 27. Hopefully, you and your spouse grow and change in ways that are compatible with each other. Hopefully you still have something in common. If you have children, hopefully you recognize your children as your “something in common” when there is nothing else. I think a better vow is to keep your family together if you choose to have children, at least until the children are grown. The rest of it is a business contract, as it should be.

The reality is, most people don’t stay together because they took vows. They stay together because they love each other and/or have a commitment to their family. Taking vows or not taking vows doesn’t change that one bit.

I think it is better today that at least we live in a time when husbands and wives don’t have to “live a lie” when in fact they hate each other and are miserable. On the other hand, I think it is incredibly sad when a marriage breaks up and there are children involved. Unless there is physical abuse or addiction involved, I think it is an incredibly selfish thing for a married couple to do. However, I think it is a bad idea to try to legislate charity and kindness.
 
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All quotes from G. K. Chesterton:
“Love means loving the unlovable – or it is no virtue at all.” – Heretics, 1905
“A man imagines a happy marriage as a marriage of love; even if he makes fun of marriages that are without love, or feels sorry for lovers who are without marriage.” – Chaucer
“Women are the only realists; their whole object in life is to pit their realism against the extravagant, excessive, and occasionally drunken idealism of men.” – A Handful of Authors
“The whole pleasure of marriage is that it is a perpetual crisis.” – David Copperfield, Chesterton on Dickens, 1911
“A good man’s work is effected by doing what he does, a woman’s by being what she is.” – Robert Browning
“Women have a thirst for order and beauty as for something physical; there is a strange female power of hating ugliness and waste as good men can only hate sin and bad men virtue.” – Chesterton on Dickens
“Marriage is a duel to the death which no man of honour should decline.” – Manalive
“The first two facts which a healthy boy or girl feels about sex are these: first that it is beautiful and then that it is dangerous.” – ILN, 1/9/09
“I have little doubt that when St. George had killed the dragon he was heartily afraid of the princess.” – The Victorian Age in Literature
“The obvious effect of frivolous divorce will be frivolous marriage. If people can be separated for no reason they will feel it all the easier to be united for no reason.”
― The Superstition of Divorce
 
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