Thoughts on College and Rising Tuition?

[ATeutonicKnight]

What are your thoughts on it? My personal thoughts are that the cost of college is already so high ($30,000+ and rising) that it’s getting to where it is no longer practical or economically smart to get most degrees colleges offer. I’m of the opinion that trade schools should be recommended much more than they are now. Even though they are economically a much more sound investment, most people view trade schools as places stupid people go, whereas 4-year colleges are seen as prestigious places of real learning.

Here are some interesting Mike Rowe interviews where he discusses why he thinks trade schools are better for the current economy and for the students. The first two are very short, and the third one is much longer and more thorough.

youtube.com/watch?v=0_BDOIps9MM

youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YhhMHdNY

youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

 

[Patavium]

Hi ATeutonicKnight

It depends on what you are studying in College. I know many US companies still are forced to hire international STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) graduates, because the number of US citizens with STEM degrees and in cases with advanced STEM degrees is not sufficient.

Of course you should study what is your interest, but I think many should give STEM degrees a try. I hold multiple STEM degrees, and it has been a great experience to learn the technical skills to answer interesting research questions.

My personal experience as an international STEM graduate is that US companies during interview would prefer that I have a green card (I do not), or that I am a citizen (I am not). Sometimes, I may lose the edge for a position if they can kind someone they believe is just as good as me for the position but has the green card or citizenship. Many cases, they cannot find these “local talents”.

 

[Patavium]

Just to add that at the Bachelor’s level I was educated outside the US. For my advanced degrees, I was educated in the US. For my advanced degrees, the US paid for them through research work I did, and teaching work I did. Essentially, they were paid through Research Assistanships and Teaching Assistantships.

I know some undergraduates are able to finance their Bachelor’s education through scholarships. Not sure how others deal with it.

 

[eltoro89]

I was lucky in that I was a HOPE Scholarship recipient ( A state scholarship fund eligible to most Georgians who meet the GPA requirements) and that helped me immensely because I was unable to pay otherwise. My parents were working class and neither had attended college and there was no college fund for me. In fact, I never thought I would go, it was only after learning that I had qualified for HOPE that I had any real chance of thinking about going to college. Neither of my older siblings went and I was the first in my entire family, extended or otherwise, to earn a degree. If I hadn’t had HOPE, my life would be very different right now.

I went to a modest state research university in Georgia and I can tell you that without that scholarship, my tuition, books, room and board would have been about 8,000 a semester, which was well beyond my grasp.

Now I’m doing a second bachelor’s in Catholic Theology (just started, yay!) and paying out of pocket. The fees are high, but I don’t mind because I’ve already completed most of the credits needed thanks to my first bachelors, so I’m only doing the philosophy/theology needed classes. The second bachelors is much more economical than was the first, even though it’s at a private Catholic college.

College isn’t for everyone, and there’s no shame in taking a trade at a trade school. Some of my friends did, and for a while they made more than me and were able to start their families quicker. I’m 25 and no future family in sight yet, just degrees! It does make me wonder sometimes.

 

[nysacerdote]

What are your thoughts on it? My personal thoughts are that the cost of college is already so high ($30,000+ and rising) that it’s getting to where it is no longer practical or economically smart to get most degrees colleges offer. I’m of the opinion that trade schools should be recommended much more than they are now. Even though they are economically a much more sound investment, most people view trade schools as places stupid people go, whereas 4-year colleges are seen as prestigious places of real learning.

It sucks. THats the simple truth. I attend a private Catholic (which means a lot less than you might think) university, and I am paying close to 50k/yr. My cousin in Ireland started his university this past year. He has to pay 2500 euro/semester (a little over 3,000 US). Whatever it is, Europe is onto something.

 

[boldlygo]

What are your thoughts on it? My personal thoughts are that the cost of college is already so high ($30,000+ and rising) that it’s getting to where it is no longer practical or economically smart to get most degrees colleges offer. I’m of the opinion that trade schools should be recommended much more than they are now. Even though they are economically a much more sound investment, most people view trade schools as places stupid people go, whereas 4-year colleges are seen as prestigious places of real learning.

Here are some interesting Mike Rowe interviews where he discusses why he thinks trade schools are better for the current economy and for the students. The first two are very short, and the third one is much longer and more thorough.

youtube.com/watch?v=0_BDOIps9MM

youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YhhMHdNY

youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

Another option most (?) people don’t consider is military service…you are paid, rather well, to learn and use skills that translate into good civilian jobs…earning college credits - even a degree - is encouraged while you serve, and when you separate from active duty, you have a college fund available.

 

[aicirt]

Mike Rowe once mentioned in an interview that the happiest people he has met are those doing manual labor highlighted on his show. They got immediate satisfaction from a job done well and usually finished within the day. He found most to be free of stress. So that says something about that life.

My hairdresser, age 29, was making $70,000 a year doing hair because she was good and got good tips etc. How she handled that money was another matter.

I believe the College of the Ozarks, a religious based institution, demands its students pay as they go. All students have jobs on campus. I wish other schools would follow its lead.

 

[Starrsmother]

What are your thoughts on it? My personal thoughts are that the cost of college is already so high ($30,000+ and rising) that it’s getting to where it is no longer practical or economically smart to get most degrees colleges offer. I’m of the opinion that trade schools should be recommended much more than they are now. Even though they are economically a much more sound investment, most people view trade schools as places stupid people go, whereas 4-year colleges are seen as prestigious places of real learning.

Here are some interesting Mike Rowe interviews where he discusses why he thinks trade schools are better for the current economy and for the students. The first two are very short, and the third one is much longer and more thorough.

youtube.com/watch?v=0_BDOIps9MM

youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YhhMHdNY

youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

To my mind having raised 5 kids, some college educated and others not, it depends on the person, their talents and interests, If, for instance, the person wants to be a nurse, doctor or lawyer, then obviously they will have to go to college. One of my sons was never really all that interested in school and he attended a trade program, became a plumber and is doing as well as some of my kids that chose college. One thing I personally believe though and did with my own kids is that the ones who chose college went to a 2 year college for the first two years of their education when everyone must basically take the same exact courses. Junior colleges can give them all these prerequisites and are far cheaper than universities—plus often the kid can live at home while they get those courses under their belt. With 5 kids, we didn’t have money to throw away. Too many kids, in my opinion get sent from their fist day to expensive universities and for many reasons including their youth and poor choices, end up joining a fraternity or sorority, partying hardy and flunking out–or making such poor grades that they may as well have.We sat down and had serious talks with our kids and made it plain that education —either in college or a trade—was important and a necessity unless they wanted to work at a Burger King for the rest of their lives but that we simply couldn’t and wouldn’t pay for them to get to move away from home and have a two year party hardy. Again, also not all kids are college material–and we will always need plumbers, auto mechanics ,appliance repairmen etc and there is no shame in a person taking one of these routes in life either!.

 

[Xantippe]

What are your thoughts on it? My personal thoughts are that the cost of college is already so high ($30,000+ and rising) that it’s getting to where it is no longer practical or economically smart to get most degrees colleges offer. I’m of the opinion that trade schools should be recommended much more than they are now. Even though they are economically a much more sound investment, most people view trade schools as places stupid people go, whereas 4-year colleges are seen as prestigious places of real learning.

Here are some interesting Mike Rowe interviews where he discusses why he thinks trade schools are better for the current economy and for the students. The first two are very short, and the third one is much longer and more thorough.

youtube.com/watch?v=0_BDOIps9MM

youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YhhMHdNY

youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

There are scammy trade schools that do nothing but take your money, so procede with caution.

 

[Avocadomom]

You just have to decide what kind of work you want to do, what will keep you stimulated and happy in your job long-term. Some people are suited to work with their hands, and some with their minds. My husband is an attorney, so he has a doctorate-level education. I don’t think he would have been as satisfied as a mechanic or roofer. It would not have been a good use of his gifts. And yep, we took out a LOT of loan money to pay for his education.

 

[PaulGH]

What are your thoughts on it? My personal thoughts are that the cost of college is already so high ($30,000+ and rising) that it’s getting to where it is no longer practical or economically smart to get most degrees colleges offer. I’m of the opinion that trade schools should be recommended much more than they are now. Even though they are economically a much more sound investment, most people view trade schools as places stupid people go, whereas 4-year colleges are seen as prestigious places of real learning.

Here are some interesting Mike Rowe interviews where he discusses why he thinks trade schools are better for the current economy and for the students. The first two are very short, and the third one is much longer and more thorough.

youtube.com/watch?v=0_BDOIps9MM

youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YhhMHdNY

youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

I very much want to send my children to a college/university with a strong Catholic identity, such as Franciscan University of Steubenville, Christendom College, Ave Maria University, Wyoming Catholic College, and so on. The reason I want to do that is because I want them to get a good education, but I also want them to be in an environment that will foster their discernment of their vocations, and that will help them to grow in holiness and faith as they transition from adolescence to adulthood. I want them to have something different from my college experience at a state university, where most of the people I met were very secular, and were much more concerned with partying, drinking, and women than with anything spiritual. (Of course I am sure that the young people at good Catholic colleges are not all perfect saints either, but I do expect that the environment is significantly better than what I experienced.)

But having said that, I doubt that my wife and I can afford to send all four of our kids through four years of a good Catholic college. And I don’t think that saddling the kids with huge student loan debt is a good idea. So I think that we will have to be very discerning consumers when it comes to college education. We may opt for a local community college for the first two years, at least for some of the kids, as a way to save money. Or we may look into non-traditional options, such as online learning. Or maybe we will find some good financial assistance to help us afford the more expensive schools. We might even consider a state university, in order to get a good academic education at a lower price, especially if we think that whichever kid we send there is strong enough spiritually to avoid the worst temptations that he will face. Trade school might also be an option, depending on what career they want to pursue. (And as an aside, with robots and “smarter” computers on the horizon, I think that my kids are going to have a tough time in the job market.)

In summary, I think that parents and young adults have to be smart consumers, and really investigate all the different options, in order to find the best value.

 

[Xantippe]

What are your thoughts on it? My personal thoughts are that the cost of college is already so high ($30,000+ and rising) that it’s getting to where it is no longer practical or economically smart to get most degrees colleges offer. I’m of the opinion that trade schools should be recommended much more than they are now. Even though they are economically a much more sound investment, most people view trade schools as places stupid people go, whereas 4-year colleges are seen as prestigious places of real learning.

Here are some interesting Mike Rowe interviews where he discusses why he thinks trade schools are better for the current economy and for the students. The first two are very short, and the third one is much longer and more thorough.

youtube.com/watch?v=0_BDOIps9MM

youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YhhMHdNY

youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0

The questions should be 1) what can I realistically afford? and 2) what am I getting for my money? 3) what am I planning to do with my life? 4) what is my debt comfort level? The system of need-based aid makes it difficult to figure out how much stuff is going to cost–it’s a sort of Middle Eastern bazaar system, rather than a supermarket–prices vary on what they think they can get out of you. On the other hand, some people do very well–I’m not sure if this is still the case, but I went to a very expensive private school 20 years ago practically free for the first three years, up until my parents’ income improved.

Any debt taken out needs to be proportionate to the career chosen.

 

[juno24]

I believe the College of the Ozarks, a religious based institution, demands its students pay as they go. All students have jobs on campus. I wish other schools would follow its lead.

There are currently 7 work colleges in the US. I attended Blackburn College back in late 80’s (when there were only 5 such schools), and it was a tremendously valuable experience in many ways. Ridiculously inexpensive, a great opportunity to learn job skills, and a wonderful education!

 

[aicirt]

There are currently 7 work colleges in the US. I attended Blackburn College back in late 80’s (when there were only 5 such schools), and it was a tremendously valuable experience in many ways. Ridiculously inexpensive, a great opportunity to learn job skills, and a wonderful education!

Great information. Wonder why the Catholic colleges don’t follow this trend?

 

[CradleJourney]

I mostly agree with the other posters.

However, I would use the 2 yr at community college then transfer idea very, very cautiously. Here at least, it is very hit or miss whether a class you take at the main community college will transfer to the 4 yr college you’re wishing to attend. And even if it transfers, it may only count for partial or elective credit - meaning you will still have 3 years (or more!) to get your degree.

What has worked for us thus far is this - each child who was so inclined to go to college (as opposed to trade school or military service) had to find five colleges - some public, some private - within driving distance that had the major they at least thought they wanted to pursue. Then they had to fully apply to each and apply for all possible scholarships for each.

After getting accepted (yeah, my kids have all done well academically so far - hoping it continues!), then it was a matter of waiting till the spring financial aid packages arrived - cheapest out of pocket college was then chosen. Surprisingly enough, so far the private colleges had been the winners coming in either at or below the cost of a public college. And between the need based aid, academic scholarships, work study and loans, it’s been tough but affordable (hope that continues too!).

The biggest thing I see is that parents and students are partially driving up the costs by insisting schools provide luxury amenities in order to remain competitive - in just the few years between my oldest and second oldest attending college, the type of dorms, rec centers, etc. has changed from basic minimum to more luxurious than my first three apartments. And woe be to the poor college that still expects it’s professors and students to handle a classroom with only a white board instead of a deluxe electronic presentation system

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

I mostly agree with the other posters.

However, I would use the 2 yr at community college then transfer idea very, very cautiously. Here at least, it is very hit or miss whether a class you take at the main community college will transfer to the 4 yr college you’re wishing to attend. And even if it transfers, it may only count for partial or elective credit - meaning you will still have 3 years (or more!) to get your degree.

What has worked for us thus far is this - each child who was so inclined to go to college (as opposed to trade school or military service) had to find five colleges - some public, some private - within driving distance that had the major they at least thought they wanted to pursue. Then they had to fully apply to each and apply for all possible scholarships for each.

After getting accepted (yeah, my kids have all done well academically so far - hoping it continues!), then it was a matter of waiting till the spring financial aid packages arrived - cheapest out of pocket college was then chosen. Surprisingly enough, so far the private colleges had been the winners coming in either at or below the cost of a public college. And between the need based aid, academic scholarships, work study and loans, it’s been tough but affordable (hope that continues too!).

The biggest thing I see is that parents and students are partially driving up the costs by insisting schools provide luxury amenities in order to remain competitive - in just the few years between my oldest and second oldest attending college, the type of dorms, rec centers, etc. has changed from basic minimum to more luxurious than my first three apartments. And woe be to the poor college that still expects it’s professors and students to handle a classroom with only a white board instead of a deluxe electronic presentation system

Yeah, lots of credits don’t transfer, and don’t even trust the college you want to transfer to about which credits will pass or not. One friend of mine checked each and every one of his classes with KU before taking them concerning credit transfer, and KU told him to go ahead and take each class he selected, saying the credits would transfer. He went there for a year, went to transfer to KU, and not one credit would transfer. That’s why it’s better to just get an associates degree at a community college and then go to the university of your choice, because they’ll accept your degree.

 

[Cat]

Here’s something to think about when you are telling your child to forget about majoring in something that won’t lead to a “job” and instead, go to trade school and learn welding.

Last night, I was at a organ meeting (pipe organ), and the entertainment was provided by a lovely young woman who played the cello while accompanied by the pipe organ. Beautiful music!

I’ve known her since she was little, and so I chatted with her about her college and career plans. She just completed a B.A. in Classics (Greek, Latin, ancient history, etc.), and is planning to go to grad school in England to pursue her Master’s Degree in Classics.

Classics. Wow, it’s like something out of Downton Abbey! Just think of all the job openings! (Not!).

Of course, it helps to know that the girl is the only daughter of a doctor who makes a comfortable (actually, more than comfortable) income, and has no trouble paying the bills for his daughter’s college and grad school.

But here’s the thing, everyone. When I was talking with my husband later (we were back home, not where anyone would overhear us), I realized that for us Catholics, SOMEONE had better be studying “classics.”

If the only people who study “classics” are rich kids who really aren’t interested in religion at all, especially Catholicism, then surely liberalism and godlessness will begin to “creep into” the “classics,” and this will eventually filter into Catholicism and erode it. We have God’s promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church, but we all know from experience that Hell’s citizens can do a lot of damage while they’re battling to prevail. Not pleasant for our children and children’s children.

Think about it. All the current Catholic experts on “classics” (Greek, Latin, etc.) are experts in a “Catholics” mindset. They approach the ancient languages, cultures, histories, etc. with a Catholic point of view, and when they write about “classical studies,” they take the Catholic church into account.

But those who are not Catholic will not do this. They’ll find all kinds of “proofs” that various sinful practices are superior to Christianity. Or they’ll write historical novels featuring sinful people as the heroes.

So as I said, SOMEONE has to study this stuff if we want the Church to continue to have accurate teachings.

And perhaps that “someone” will be YOUR son or daughter! And of course, you will have a cow wondering what on earth your child will do with a degree in “classics!” But think about the Church without a solid grounding in “classics”.

Maybe we all need to trust the Lord a little more. I can certainly see a parent requiring a child majoring in “classics” to first earn a certificate in some very practical skilled field (like welding) so they can support themselves and a family. But I hope that Catholic parents will realize that God needs scholars and philosophers as well as plumbers and welders.

 

[Xantippe]

Yeah, lots of credits don’t transfer, and don’t even trust the college you want to transfer to about which credits will pass or not. One friend of mine checked each and every one of his classes with KU before taking them concerning credit transfer, and KU told him to go ahead and take each class he selected, saying the credits would transfer. He went there for a year, went to transfer to KU, and not one credit would transfer. That’s why it’s better to just get an associates degree at a community college and then go to the university of your choice, because they’ll accept your degree.

I do hear that it can be a bummer transferring in as a junior. It’s easier to fit in socially when starting as a freshman when so many other people at your academic level are new, too.

As to community colleges, I really like them for working out the kinks in an inadequate K-12 education. A lot of people might be well-served by inexpensively working on their composition skills and their math at the community college level, rather than doing remedial courses at a 4-year college.

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s something to think about when you are telling your child to forget about majoring in something that won’t lead to a “job” and instead, go to trade school and learn welding.

Last night, I was at a organ meeting (pipe organ), and the entertainment was provided by a lovely young woman who played the cello while accompanied by the pipe organ. Beautiful music!

I’ve known her since she was little, and so I chatted with her about her college and career plans. She just completed a B.A. in Classics (Greek, Latin, ancient history, etc.), and is planning to go to grad school in England to pursue her Master’s Degree in Classics.

Classics. Wow, it’s like something out of Downton Abbey! Just think of all the job openings! (Not!).

Of course, it helps to know that the girl is the only daughter of a doctor who makes a comfortable (actually, more than comfortable) income, and has no trouble paying the bills for his daughter’s college and grad school.

But here’s the thing, everyone. When I was talking with my husband later (we were back home, not where anyone would overhear us), I realized that for us Catholics, SOMEONE had better be studying “classics.”

If the only people who study “classics” are rich kids who really aren’t interested in religion at all, especially Catholicism, then surely liberalism and godlessness will begin to “creep into” the “classics,” and this will eventually filter into Catholicism and erode it. We have God’s promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church, but we all know from experience that Hell’s citizens can do a lot of damage while they’re battling to prevail. Not pleasant for our children and children’s children.

Think about it. All the current Catholic experts on “classics” (Greek, Latin, etc.) are experts in a “Catholics” mindset. They approach the ancient languages, cultures, histories, etc. with a Catholic point of view, and when they write about “classical studies,” they take the Catholic church into account.

But those who are not Catholic will not do this. They’ll find all kinds of “proofs” that various sinful practices are superior to Christianity. Or they’ll write historical novels featuring sinful people as the heroes.

So as I said, SOMEONE has to study this stuff if we want the Church to continue to have accurate teachings.

And perhaps that “someone” will be YOUR son or daughter! And of course, you will have a cow wondering what on earth your child will do with a degree in “classics!” But think about the Church without a solid grounding in “classics”.

Maybe we all need to trust the Lord a little more. I can certainly see a parent requiring a child majoring in “classics” to first earn a certificate in some very practical skilled field (like welding) so they can support themselves and a family. But I hope that Catholic parents will realize that God needs scholars and philosophers as well as plumbers and welders.

I think one of our kids might well shine as a classics major (she’s a 7th grader starting her fourth year of Latin and school has a Greek club), but we are reasonably well-off and live in a college town and she has a good chance of graduating without any student debt. I would not stand in her way if she wanted to do classics, particularly if she took some technical courses along the way.

Whatever students borrow when majoring in classics, it needs to be a sum that can be comfortably paid off as a high school Latin teacher. It should not be on the assumption that they are going to strike it rich and be a tenured college Latin professor.

 

[pensmama87]

I think one of our kids might well shine as a classics major (she’s a 7th grader starting her fourth year of Latin and school has a Greek club), but we are reasonably well-off and live in a college town and she has a good chance of graduating without any student debt. I would not stand in her way if she wanted to do classics, particularly if she took some technical courses along the way.

Whatever students borrow when majoring in classics, it needs to be a sum that can be comfortably paid off as a high school Latin teacher. It should not be on the assumption that they are going to strike it rich and be a tenured college Latin professor.

This is my line of thinking, too.

I was an English major and I went to a liberal arts college. Interestingly, it was the graduate degree I earned afterward - for teaching, so a directly applicable skill - that landed me in major trouble with debt. I am not necessarily one to believe that post-secondary education absolutely has to be job training and I think a (good) liberal arts education is good preparation for adult life regardless of what a person wants to do, but I don’t believe that borrowing is the way to do it, living now with the aftermath.

I also know a few stay-at-home moms who get flak for “wasting” their education or “taking up space” in a college. I stay at home, sure, but I am still thankful for my undergraduate education and I still use it in my life, even though it doesn’t pull in a salary, and that will be passed on to my kids.