Thoughts on Individual Thought

[Tick_Dawk]

I am a devout Catholic who’s been reading this website a little bit, especially in the spirituality and moral theology sections. Now, I’m glad I am a Catholic and that I was raised as a Catholic, but I’ve come to believe that in order to not commit suicide with all these little rules and technicalities, one has to do what one thinks and feels is right, even if there’s a slight deviation from some canon law or church doctrine. I’m not saying you go out and have rampant sex because you feel like it or you go kill five people because they bother you; but I’m just saying, we’re given consciences and free will and discerning minds for a reason, and if we come to a conclusion differing from the Church’s, and it doesn’t interfere with the rights of other people, why can’t we follow what we believe is right? It kind of saddens me when I’ve read some of these posts how righteous and technical and nit-picky some of these answers are.

Anyway, these are just thoughts–pondering out loud, if you will. I just really wish that people would follow the spirit of the law, rather than the letter (you know, kind of like Jesus).

 

[teachccd]

The Church was instituted by Christ and is guided by the Holy Spirit. Any deviation from it’s official teachings is a deviation from God. A well formed conscience utilizes Church teachings and discerns by these teachings. So while some answers seem very legalistic here, like Jesus, the Church is unwavering in doctrine and that is precisely why Catholicism is doctrinally sound. We have those who deviate from Church teachings. We call them Protestants…God Bless…teachccd

 

[Newbie2]

The Church was instituted by Christ and is guided by the Holy Spirit. Any deviation from it’s official teachings is a deviation from God. A well formed conscience utilizes Church teachings and discerns by these teachings. So while some answers seem very legalistic here, like Jesus, the Church is unwavering in doctrine and that is precisely why Catholicism is doctrinally sound. We have those who deviate from Church teachings. We call them Protestants…God Bless…teachccd

I’d agree with teach and stress “A well-formed conscience”. Many times folks that don’t agree with Church teachings on moral matters don’t fully understand them, and I’ll bet that in many cases don’t want to, maybe using that as an excuse.

That being said, it’s not a bad thing to struggle with issues rather than dismiss them outright. I’ve struggled for years with trying to understand the teaching on contraception, in terms of reconciling the unitive and procreative aspects of the marital act. I accept the teaching, but struggle to fully understand its entire meaning.

To the OP, to answer *"…we’re given consciences and free will and discerning minds for a reason, and if we come to a conclusion differing from the Church’s, and it doesn’t interfere with the rights of other people, why can’t we follow what we believe is right? *, being human and subject to being mislead by sin, how can we be certain that what we believe to be right is in fact right in the first place? The Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, does not make mistakes in belief like we individuals are prone to do.

 

[SD_Catholic]

I am a devout Catholic who’s been reading this website a little bit, especially in the spirituality and moral theology sections. Now, I’m glad I am a Catholic and that I was raised as a Catholic, but I’ve come to believe that in order to not commit suicide with all these little rules and technicalities, one has to do what one thinks and feels is right, even if there’s a slight deviation from some canon law or church doctrine. I’m not saying you go out and have rampant sex because you feel like it or you go kill five people because they bother you; but I’m just saying, we’re given consciences and free will and discerning minds for a reason, and if we come to a conclusion differing from the Church’s, and it doesn’t interfere with the rights of other people, why can’t we follow what we believe is right? It kind of saddens me when I’ve read some of these posts how righteous and technical and nit-picky some of these answers are.

Anyway, these are just thoughts–pondering out loud, if you will. I just really wish that people would follow the spirit of the law, rather than the letter (you know, kind of like Jesus).

Yes, there are many rules in the Catholic Church and yes it is very very tough to do our best to follow them all. I’ve had to change many things in my life because of these technical rules, and at first it seems like a burden to have to follow them, but what seemed burdensome turns into reward and a greater love for God and his Church. These rules are not there to burden us or force us into something… they are there because they help bring us closer to God and to live a life that is more acceptable to him (which I’m sure you would agree is the goal of life).

We are also given free will and discerning minds so that we have the ability to not only choose how we want to follow God but also even if we want to follow him or believe in him… Adam and Eve used their free will poorly and God didn’t seem too pleased with it. Free will is not a gift used to make our own rules but a gift used to see if we will follow his.

You are doing a great thing by trying to learn more about the Catholic faith (I am too), but don’t get discouraged by all the nit-picky rules and answers that people give here… most are sincere and many are here just like you and I, trying to learn more about our Church. Good luck with your journey of faith:thumbsup:

SD

 

[Tick_Dawk]

Well, I don’t know about that. I think the Church definitely makes some mistakes (i.e. Limbo, which apparently didn’t exist for a little bit, but now it does again, or you know, selling indulgences so we could pay for St. Peter’s Basilica). I’m not saying the inherent beliefs of Catholicism, like the transubstantiation of the host into the body of Christ, are wrong and I think you definitely need to believe some of those pillars to be Catholic. I’m just saying, some of these really odd posts like “is it wrong for me to shave my pubic hair?” and stuff seem a little too technical, or “Is reading something that takes the Lord’s name in vain a sin?”

I mean, sure, the Catholic Church offers insight into how to form your conscience, and I totally agree with that, but the Church isn’t right all the time, since its run by people. Isn’t it lazy to just sit back and say “I do it because my religion tells me to do it”? I don’t know, I find that thinking somewhat dangerous and damaging.

 

[Jerusha]

You are concerned that some of these questions are indicative of scrupulosity, and that this is not being confronted adequately by respondents?

Perhaps your participation is needed.

 

[Chuck_H]

I am a devout Catholic who’s been reading this website a little bit, especially in the spirituality and moral theology sections. Now, I’m glad I am a Catholic and that I was raised as a Catholic, but I’ve come to believe that in order to not commit suicide with all these little rules and technicalities, one has to do what one thinks and feels is right, even if there’s a slight deviation from some canon law or church doctrine. I’m not saying you go out and have rampant sex because you feel like it or you go kill five people because they bother you; but I’m just saying, we’re given consciences and free will and discerning minds for a reason, and if we come to a conclusion differing from the Church’s, and it doesn’t interfere with the rights of other people, why can’t we follow what we believe is right? It kind of saddens me when I’ve read some of these posts how righteous and technical and nit-picky some of these answers are.

Anyway, these are just thoughts–pondering out loud, if you will. I just really wish that people would follow the spirit of the law, rather than the letter (you know, kind of like Jesus).

Try Things Hidden- Scripture as Spirituality by Richard Rohr. He says it much better than I could ever say it.

 

[fix]

I mean, sure, the Catholic Church offers insight into how to form your conscience, and I totally agree with that, but the Church isn’t right all the time, since its run by people. Isn’t it lazy to just sit back and say “I do it because my religion tells me to do it”? I don’t know, I find that thinking somewhat dangerous and damaging.

Actually, it seems your understanding of the Church is much different than what She actually is. What is dangerous is moral relativism.

 

[Tick_Dawk]

So, then what is the Church? Isn’t the Church just an institution run by people to guide us to God? Aren’t we, as individuals, responsible for our fate and spirituality?

 

[Tick_Dawk]

I mean, I’m not being relativistic. I think there’s right and wrong in the universe. All I’m saying is, isn’t it the individual’s responsibility, using the Church as a guide to sharpen and hone your moral compass, to determine what is right and wrong?

 

[teachccd]

I mean, I’m not being relativistic. I think there’s right and wrong in the universe. All I’m saying is, isn’t it the individual’s responsibility, using the Church as a guide to sharpen and hone your moral compass, to determine what is right and wrong?

In our Church we have theological doctrines whereby all Catholics are bound to adhere to and we have theological opinions (limbo) whereby we can move around within the pale of orthodoxy. Yes, the Church is an institution run by humans. What I believe is of concern here is whether or not you feel that doctrinal issues are debateable. Shaving one’s pubic hair, as you mentioned in a previous post, is not binding to one’s Catholic faith. It’s a matter of opinion and we should allow ourselves the space to move regarding our ideas as long as they do not conflict with human dignity and our understanding of God and His Church.

I too, at times, find some of these posts leaning towards legalism and wonder if the letter of the law isn’t smothering the spirit of the law. There must be a balance. A properly formed conscience should adequately discern whether a post is Church teaching or someone’s scrupulosity showing itself.

So while you may get discouraged at times, realize that our Church has been around for 2000 years with knuckleheads but still withstands the test of time. Even the Apostles messed up more than once. But Christianity is not based on our human errors. It is based on Christ and His Kingdom and the authority He set up with His Church however scandulous our human nature may seem…God Bless…teachccd

 

[JonW]

The Church is an institution run partly by humans. But it is much more than that. It is the Body of Christ, and part of the Divine Family, sharing in the love of the Holy Spirit. We are a family, guided by the Holy Spirit. The Church is not a handbook or guidebook for life or morals. It is much more than that. The real laziness that is destructive and dangerous is rejecting doctrine or teaching without understanding them.

God Bless

Jon Winterburn

 

[StCsDavid]

I mean, I’m not being relativistic. I think there’s right and wrong in the universe. All I’m saying is, isn’t it the individual’s responsibility, using the Church as a guide to sharpen and hone your moral compass, to determine what is right and wrong?

Under your scheme there is no communion of saints…only relative individualism. Christ said that He is the way, the truth, and the life…He didn’t say He is one of the ways of many truths spread out over multiple lives. He also prays very fervently in John that we all be one as He is one with His Father. Here too, the concept of a communal salvation is revealed. One last point…if you it’s all about your own individual experience, then how can you die to self as Christ calls each of us to do.

Give Pope Benedict’s Spe Salvi a gander. He references the flaws of this individualistic view of salvation a few times.