Thoughts on Marian Apparitions

[Conor7]

Admittedly, this topic fascinates and terrifies me. I’m curious what your thoughts are on Marian apparitions, weeping statues, the odor of sanctity, and the like.

This seems to be a mostly Catholic phenomenon, yet I recently read a report about a weeping Madonna at an Episcopal Church (I wish I remember where - I seem to recall it was in a Canada-adjacent U.S. state.)

I understand that Fatima has been deemed legit, yet obviously some of these events are hoaxed or perhaps even (I shutter to say) demonic.

I thought this might be a little fun and break up the constant theological debate.

 

[campeador]

On 18 January 1862, Bishop Laurence, the Bishop of Tarbes, gave the solemn declaration:

“We are inspired by the Commission comprising wise, holy, learned and experienced priests who questioned the child, studied the facts, examined everything and weighed all the evidence. We have also called on science, and we remain convinced that the Apparitions are supernatural and divine, and that by consequence, what Bernadette saw was the Most Blessed Virgin. Our convictions are based on the testimony of Bernadette, but above all on the things that have happened, things which can be nothing other than divine intervention”.

wiki link

 

[followingtheway]

Admittedly, this topic fascinates and terrifies me. I’m curious what your thoughts are on Marian apparitions, weeping statues, the odor of sanctity, and the like.

I believe in most of those, like Guadalupe, Fatima, Lourdes, America, Walshingham, La Vang, the Snows and so on. And even though Divine Mercy isn’t a Marian appiration, it’s a Jesus-ish-one But I believe in that one too.

I understand that Fatima has been deemed legit, yet obviously some of these events are hoaxed or perhaps even (I shutter to say) demonic.

Yeah, that’s why I don’t believe in Medjugorje and Bayside yet.

 

[Sufjon]

Admittedly, this topic fascinates and terrifies me. I’m curious what your thoughts are on Marian apparitions, weeping statues, the odor of sanctity, and the like.

This seems to be a mostly Catholic phenomenon, yet I recently read a report about a weeping Madonna at an Episcopal Church (I wish I remember where - I seem to recall it was in a Canada-adjacent U.S. state.)

I understand that Fatima has been deemed legit, yet obviously some of these events are hoaxed or perhaps even (I shutter to say) demonic.

I thought this might be a little fun and break up the constant theological debate.

Hi Conor: This is a great topic and thanks for posting it. I think apparitions happen in a lot of religions, and I think a lot of them are legitimate. Just curious, but could you share why they terrify you?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Conor7]

Hi Conor: This is a great topic and thanks for posting it. I think apparitions happen in a lot of religions, and I think a lot of them are legitimate. Just curious, but could you share why they terrify you?

Your friend
Sufjon

Perhaps it was my Pentecostal upbringing where anything paranormal was something to be avoided. I have since, of course, shaken those beliefs, but the feelings these phenomena inspire in me may be a matter of conditioning I’m afraid. Still, I find the topic fascinating, and I think in some ways we all long for some kind of experience with the supernatural.

I’m curious, how do these phenomena manifest in other religions?

 

[Tyuiop411]

I believe in all the Marian apparitions that have been deemed legit, I wont even bother forming an opinion on Medjugorje and the like until the Vatican determines whether it’s false or not.

This seems to be a mostly Catholic phenomenon, yet I recently read a report about a weeping Madonna at an Episcopal Church (I wish I remember where - I seem to recall it was in a Canada-adjacent U.S. state.)

Can you link me to the report? I would love to read it.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I believe in most of those, like Guadalupe, Fatima, Lourdes, America, Walshingham, La Vang, the Snows and so on. And even though Divine Mercy isn’t a Marian appiration, it’s a Jesus-ish-one But I believe in that one too.

Yeah, that’s why I don’t believe in Medjugorje and Bayside yet.

Bayside was condemned some time ago. Medjugorje is under study.

 

[kylemccloughan]

Admittedly, this topic fascinates and terrifies me. I’m curious what your thoughts are on Marian apparitions, weeping statues, the odor of sanctity, and the like.

This seems to be a mostly Catholic phenomenon, yet I recently read a report about a weeping Madonna at an Episcopal Church (I wish I remember where - I seem to recall it was in a Canada-adjacent U.S. state.)

I understand that Fatima has been deemed legit, yet obviously some of these events are hoaxed or perhaps even (I shutter to say) demonic.

I thought this might be a little fun and break up the constant theological debate.

I just can’t bring myself to subscribe to these. There’s just too many claims from the apparitions that do not line up with Scripture.

 

[Conor7]

Can you link me to the report? I would love to read it.

I am desperately trying to find it, Tyuiop, and will post it when I do.

 

[followingtheway]

Bayside was condemned some time ago.

And yet people still believe in it? :ehh: Odd. :dts:

 

[pablope]

Admittedly, this topic fascinates and terrifies me. I’m curious what your thoughts are on Marian apparitions, weeping statues, the odor of sanctity, and the like.

This seems to be a mostly Catholic phenomenon, yet I recently read a report about a weeping Madonna at an Episcopal Church (I wish I remember where - I seem to recall it was in a Canada-adjacent U.S. state.)

I understand that Fatima has been deemed legit, yet obviously some of these events are hoaxed or perhaps even (I shutter to say) demonic.

I thought this might be a little fun and break up the constant theological debate.

You may find this interesting:

catholicnewsagency.com/news/romes-exorcist-finding-bl.-john-paul-ii-effective-against-satan/

or this: motherofallpeoples.com/

and this:

mysticsofthechurch.com/2010/09/mary-crushes-serpent-virgin-marys-role.html

 

[Conor7]

Thanks for links Pablope; they were extraordinarily interesting. The first, is likely to give me nightmares, but I bookmarked them all nonetheless.

 

[Telstar]

Bayside was condemned some time ago. Medjugorje is under study.

And yet people still believe in it? :ehh: Odd. :dts:

Bayside was condemned by the local Bishop, but it was never officially investigated in any great detail, whatsoever. From a personal experience standpoint, I don’t necessarily agree with their decision. Many Priests, Nuns and other clergy would also disagree with it. Bishops have been known to make mistakes in cases like these, before.

Medjugoré on the other hand, I have some serious doubts about.

 

[Bwtby]

I hate myself for it, but I have a hard time believing in them. :tsktsk: :tsktsk:, I know.

 

[Telstar]

I hate myself for it, but I have a hard time believing in them. :tsktsk: :tsktsk:, I know.

Believing in personal Apparitions is not required by the Church, at all. The ones that are fully approved and promoted actively in connection with the Church (like Our Lady of Fatima), can be fully believed because they have already been proven by the Church to be true. That requires a whole lot of proof.

 

[AmericanMuslim]

I know a priest who spent many years investigating Marian apparitions. This was his officially sanctioned work - it probably won’t be fair for me to post his name here as he is nearing 90 and does not participate. But he published a number of books on the subject and was something of an expert, though he is now retired.

Paraphrasing conversations I’ve had with him on this subject…

First, you’d be surprised how many people claim to have witnessed Marian apparitions. Most never get much publicity because the claimants fall silent when their claims are probed.

A certain percentage of Marian apparitions are best described as pious hoaxes and inventions. The witnesses repeat what Mary said, but there are subtle errors in theology or facts or contradictions with the faith that quickly show them to be frauds. Many never make it past initial examination. He said often a simple reading of transcripts or messages shows it’s impossible to be true.

Another group of apparitions fall into the “Mary didn’t really say anything” category. If Mary appears and repeats a few platitudes that are cut/pasted from other apparitions, he was generally suspicious.

He also considered the claimant’s life. Although in theory it shouldn’t have any relevance (Mary could appear to any believer), a larger amount of the fraudulent claims came from people seeking attention, people with a history of mental illness, etc. He noted that the major “official” apparitions were all made to people who were deeply religious and trying to sincerely practice their faith. Someone who lives a life of sin or doesn’t participate in the sacraments regularly etc. tends to stand out as less likely.

While he usually found that people’s motives were pure - no one was trying to “get rich” - some did seek attention and the following that went along with it.

If memory serves, he did believe in Lourdes, Fatima, Akita, and Medugorje, and probably most of the other “official” ones, though he was highly skeptical of most Lourdes healings as being weak science. He focused on Marian apparitions primarily as a vehicle for faith and mass appeal to inspire faith rather than the healings, supernatural phenomena, etc.

 

[Cheshangle]

Admittedly, this topic fascinates and terrifies me. I’m curious what your thoughts are on Marian apparitions, weeping statues, the odor of sanctity, and the like.

This seems to be a mostly Catholic phenomenon, yet I recently read a report about a weeping Madonna at an Episcopal Church (I wish I remember where - I seem to recall it was in a Canada-adjacent U.S. state.)

I understand that Fatima has been deemed legit, yet obviously some of these events are hoaxed or perhaps even (I shutter to say) demonic.

I thought this might be a little fun and break up the constant theological debate.

I have an open mind on this (well, I’m Anglican!). But in another forum I chatted to an RC about it. At first he was a bit defensive, and I could understand why: there are a lot of sneerers and jeerers round. But once the ice had broken we got on well. I asked him if he had ever seen an Apparition, and he said, “yes, and oddly enough it was at the Anglican shrine at Walsingham”.

I found this quite heartening.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I find them quite frightening and tend to think it puts too much emphasis on Mary and not enough on Christ. I can’t accept it.

 

[Tyuiop411]

I find them quite frightening and tend to think it puts too much emphasis on Mary and not enough on Christ. I can’t accept it.

I’m not trying to be rude or confrontational when I ask this just so you know.

I’ve noticed most Protestants and other Christians who have some basis in the Reformation have a distinct dislike if not hatred of the supernatural, especially Marian apparitions. Do you know why this is?

I’ve asked about Marian apparitions on a predominately Evangelical forum, and the most common answers I got was “it’s demonic” and “Rebuke it in the name of Jesus!”

In fact they said the same thing about St. Faustina’s Jesus visions/apparitions.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I’m not trying to be rude or confrontational when I ask this just so you know.

I’ve noticed most Protestants and other Christians who have some basis in the Reformation have a distinct dislike if not hatred of the supernatural, especially Marian apparitions. Do you know why this is?

I’ve asked about Marian apparitions on a predominately Evangelical forum, and the most common answers I got was “it’s demonic” and “Rebuke it in the name of Jesus!”

In fact they said the same thing about St. Faustina’s Jesus visions/apparitions.

I’m fearful of these apparitions because I don’t understand why she would be appearing, it’s influencing a lot of people, and it’s furthering excessive devotion to the Virgin Mary. instead of to Jesus. Now people are pushing to see the “fifth Marian dogma” approved. No, it makes me exceptionally nervous.

I believe there can be visions and appearances, but I’m skeptical of these.