Thoughts on Once Saved Always Saved

[VociMike]

How would you explain this:Now Peter was sitting outside in the courtyard, and a servant-girl came to him and said, “You too were with Jesus the Galilean.” But he denied it before them all, saying, “I do not know what you are talking about.” When he had gone out to the gateway, another servant-girl saw him and said to those who were there, “This man was with Jesus of Nazareth.” And again he denied it with an oath, “I do not know the man.” A little later the bystanders came up and said to Peter, “Surely you too are one of them; for even the way you talk gives you away.” Then he began to curse and swear, “I do not know the man!” And immediately a rooster crowed. And Peter remembered the word which Jesus had said, “Before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.” And he went out and wept bitterly.Are you familiar with the concept of repentance, Mike? Or, do you automatically assume it will never happen?

What a strange response! Since Peter didn’t teach OSAS I wonder why you bring him into the discussion. I am not aware that the atheist I linked to has repented and once again affirmed his faith in Christ. Has this man wept bitterly over the books and articles he has written?

Your example is no good as it shows that either you lack understanding of scriptural teaching, or you choose to ignore it in order to make a circular, and faulty point.

Heck, it was a simple question. How do you, as an OSAS believer, explain people like the former preacher turned *militant *atheist that I linked to? You must have an explanation for people who believe they are saved, and act as though they are saved, and whom others fully believe are saved, and who later reject God fully and vehemently. So, please present the OSAS understanding of such people. If you cannot explain them under the OSAS doctrine then your doctrine cannot deal with reality and must thus be discarded.

 

[mozart-250]

as far as I know it only the Evangelicals who believe OSAS.

For the record, evangelicals are divided on this issue.

Your evangelical denominations which flow from the Wesleyan tradition (Pentecostal denominations (Assembly of God etc), Nazarene, Wesleyan, conservative Methodist) while solidly evangelical, do not believe in this.

 

[sandusky]

VociMike:

What a strange response! Since Peter didn’t teach OSAS I wonder why you bring him into the discussion. I am not aware that the atheist I linked to has repented and once again affirmed his faith in Christ. Has this man wept bitterly over the books and articles he has written?

Heck, it was a simple question. How do you, as an OSAS believer, explain people like the former preacher turned militant atheist that I linked to? You must have an explanation for people who believe they are saved, and act as though they are saved, and whom others fully believe are saved, and who later reject God fully and vehemently. So, please present the OSAS understanding of such people. If you cannot explain them under the OSAS doctrine then your doctrine cannot deal with reality and must thus be discarded.

I ask again, are you familiar with the concept of repentance, Mike? Or, is it that because repentance hasn’t happened within your expected time-frame it will never occur?

Your example is not very good as it shows that either you lack understanding of scriptural teaching, or you choose to ignore it in order to make a circular, and faulty point.

Read the links that I provided earlier on this thread; your questions are answered within each of them.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I ask again, are you familiar with the concept of repentance, Mike? Or, is it that because repentance hasn’t happened within your expected time-frame it will never occur?

Your example is not very good as it shows that either you lack understanding of scriptural teaching, or you choose to ignore it in order to make a circular, and faulty point.

Read the links that I provided earlier on this thread; your questions are answered within each of them.

I think Mike is talking about people who do not ever repent before they die.

So, for example, if the preacher who once preached once saved always saved then declares that he…

a) …no longer believes in God, and then…
b) …actively attempts to get others to no longer believe in God as well, and then…
c) …dies unrepentant in this unbelief and willing rebellion against God…

…what happens to this man upon death? Is he saved or not?

God bless and help that man. I got such a bad feeling when I looked at Dan Barker’s eyes on the cover of that book.

 

[VociMike]

I ask again, are you familiar with the concept of repentance, Mike? Or, is it that because repentance hasn’t happened within your expected time-frame it will never occur?

Since you will not give me a straight answer I will attempt to translate your inscrutable reply. I believe you are saying that this atheist is indeed saved, and will repent and return to faith before he dies. If that is indeed your answer, it is nothing more than speculation. I will propose, for sake of argument, that this man dies unrepentant, thus rendering your supposition incorrect. Now how will you explain his life of faith and anti-faith?

Your example is not very good as it shows that either you lack understanding of scriptural teaching, or you choose to ignore it in order to make a circular, and faulty point.

So explain to me why my example is not very good. It is a real live person. Why are real live persons not good examples?

Read the links that I provided earlier on this thread; your questions are answered within each of them.

How complicated must the answer be that I have to read multiple links? Surely you can boil down the anwer to a few sentences?!

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

OSAS is a Calvinist doctrine that stems from Predestination and the other of the 5 points of Calvinism. (TULIP)

If a person truly believes in that version of Predestination, then God decided arbitralily who will and won’t be saved before the people were ever born. With this definition, to suggest that a saved person can lose salvation is declaring that God can and does make mistakes and that people have some say in the process. To say either would be heresy to such believers.

To get a better idea read up on the 5 points of Calvinism.

I guess I have read this before. So if this is one of the main arguments, then it would appear that I am familiar with this teaching after all.

Syele:

Once you understand the 5 points better you can see that they don’t even believe “their faith has saved them”… due to “Total Depravity” they don’t even have the ability to have Faith in the first place. Then they have “Unconditional Election” God chose them with no reguard for anything they might do good or bad, Add in “Irresistable Grace” - If they have been chosen they couldn’t avoid following God even if they wanted to and OSAS (Or the actual term “Perserverence of the Saints”) is fairly logical.

And these people think the theory of evolution is evil?

It may be logical in their minds. But everything seems logical in the mind of those who believe their own doctrines. In addition to this, there is nothing remotely just about this kind of election at all-- and it is highly illogical to conclude that any God that would work this way is in any way related to the God of the Scriptures.

The Scriptures repeatedly speak of the fairness and justice of God in so many ways, none of which agrees with this kind of “Unconditional Election/Irresistable Grace” doctrine.

For example…
Psalm 9:16:

The LORD is known by his justice; the wicked are ensnared by the work of their hands.

Psalm 11:7:

For the LORD is righteous, he loves justice; upright men will see his face.

Psalm 103:6:

The LORD works righteousness and justice for all the oppressed.

Psalm 140:12:

I know that the LORD secures justice for the poor and upholds the cause of the needy.

Proverbs 21:3:

To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

Proverbs 28:5:

Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the LORD understand it fully.

Indeed, if 1 Timothy 2:3-4 says that God our Savior wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth, then how on earth can he only predestine a certain few?

Acts 17:25-27 actually goes on step futher and slam this whole idea of “Unconditional Election/Irresistable Grace” right out of the ball park…

And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.

From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

When one looks at 1 Timothy 2:3-4 and compares it to Acts 17:25-27, it seems impossible to not conclude that God has been calling everyone from the beginning.

If so, it only stands to reason that, for whatever reason, some people follow the prompts of the Holy Spirit and some do not. But no one has not been called by God in some way as far as I can tell.

---

Please note: I realize that you do not subscribe to the 5 points of Calvinism as Calvin himself presented them Syele. My response above is more of a general one which illustrates why I do not accept this idea of the “Perserverence of the Saints”.

Anyone who thinks that God can chose them with no regard for anything they might do good or bad, and that, since they have been chosen, they couldn’t avoid following God even if they wanted to, seems to be ignoring every single passage of Scripture which talks about God being just.

According to Acts 10:34-35, God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.

 

[Philthy]

Concerning Once Saved Always Saved:

To say that you can lose your salvation, says that you can do something to forfeit your salvation.

Its called mortal sin(1John 5:17) - it is a fully informed, free will choice to reject Jesus Christ and the grace provided by his Crucifixion to resist temptation and “bear it” (cf 1Cor 10:13) and it can land one in Hell. Your claim that Scripture doesnt specifically say that someone has gone to Hell is desperate - no one on earth judges if someone has gone to Hell. When Christ says that He is the vine and we are the branches and that disobedient branches get “cut off” that is perfectly clear - unless, of course, one is blinded by determination to save their preconceived theology.

titus:

This, in turn, must mean that you can do something to gain salvation.

This is an unsubstantiated conclusion. The fact that I can lose my salvation in no way means that I am also able to gain it. That much being said, I have never heard of a Christian who didnt beleive that we needed to do something to be saved. Believing is doing something.

titus:

You can neither gain nor lose salvation. Christ’s work alone is sufficient to save you, and if Christ saves you, what can you do to overturn it?

You could reject it with the free will he gave you. BTW, if Christs work alone is sufficient and there is nothing that we do, then everyone is saved. Welcome to Universalism - heresy.

titus:

One might say that it is a bit arrogant to claim you have the power to overturn what Christ has done in your life. I am sure none of you have that arrogance, and I don’t think anyone who understands salvation would make such a claim, but you understand the general idea.

Sure, just kick back and relax - lets sin abound so that grace may abound all the more - any attempt at living a righteous life is simply an insult to what Christ did for us, right? Ignore that when asked specifically what to do to gain eternal life Christ said things like…“keep the commandments” IMHO you need to put your books away and take this to prayer.

titus:

So that is the basis of OSAS: You can do nothing to gain salvation, thus you can do nothing to lose it. So, once you’re saved, you’re saved to the bone. The works done are proof of your salvation, they are outward expressions of your inner change. If one lacks works, and lacks fruits, he more than likely lacks salvation.

Hope that helped.

This theology fails on so many levels its amazing. As I pointed out in a previous post, Christ specifically tells us that if we dont forgive others we wont be forgiven by God. I dont know how to break this to you, but salvation requires God’s forgiveness, and Jesus has presented it in a conditional format including something that we must do throughout our lives. It’s a very simple, clear statement from our Lord. And it is not the only one - he also tells us we will be judged by our deeds.
Once your saved your saved to the bone? Why does Paul describe salvation as being “nearer than when we first believed?” Why does he describe salvation in the past, present and future tenses? Why so many admonitions against sinning? Why does Paul say to Christians that they should “take care lest you fall and make a shipwreck of your faith”? And Peter urges us “as aliens and sojourners to keep away from worldly desires which wage war against the soul”?
I could go on and on and on. But what I would prefer to do is explain something that you seem to overlook. There is an element of Salvation that we had no control over - none. If Christ hadnt come in the flesh, then we would all have perished. So in that sense, we, of ourselves, could not have attained salvation. Thank God that Christ did come to redeem mankind! That fact, however, does not mean that everyone is saved - Satan is still in business! It means that the door to salvation has been created for everyone, but we must all knock on the door and walk through it! It is mysterious, but the strength to persevere in knocking and the strength to actually walk through the door also comes from Christ! But we must be careful not to ignore or reject outright His power. That is precisely what sin does - it weakens His influence in our lives. We have been crucified with Christ, yet we live! But we are not to live as our sinful selves, but to allow Christ to live in us, by faith in Him who loves us and has given Himself for us(cf Gal 2:19-20) God has promised that all the trials we face are only human and that He is faithful and will provide the grace merited by Christ to withstand them(1 Cor 10:13) Our job is to “stay awake” and not get lulled into believing that since Christ has done it all I dont need to do anything. Like I said, stop thinking so much about this and start praying about it.

 

[Philthy]

Here is a parable I use to explain faith and works:

Here’s an analogy:

You have a pot, a watering can, a water supply and some dirt and you want to grow a flower.

You are hopeless without a seed. Nothing you do works. Your works do nothing!

God comes along and freely gives us a seed which begins to grow.Thank you God!

He also tells us - I’ll provide the Son, but you need to water the plant or it will die!
You don’t water the plant and it dies after a while.

Explanation:
The pot, can, water and dirt - everything we are - is us in our sinful state.
The desire for a flower is the desire for eternal life
The attempt to grow the flower without a seed is works without faith
The seed is God’s gift of Grace and without it there will be no “flower”
Jesus is the Sun - the metaphor was to good to pass up - also necessary
The statement by God is His Word - it tells us what we need to do.
Failing to water the plant is “faith without works”
Watering the plant is the “works” part of eternal life - ignore them, and the plant dies. It grew for a while, but you let it die.

 

[Philthy]

How do you, as an OSAS believer, explain people like the former preacher turned *militant *atheist that I linked to? You must have an explanation for people who believe they are saved, and act as though they are saved, and whom others fully believe are saved, and who later reject God fully and vehemently. … If you cannot explain them under the OSAS doctrine then your doctrine cannot deal with reality and must thus be discarded.

To be fair, it doesnt mean the doctrine can’t deal with the reality, or even that it’s necessarily wrong - the problem is that it becomes USELESS. What good is knowing that once your saved you are saved forever if you can never truly know you were saved in the first place? Its no good at all. Trying to salvage the theory by assuming that these people all repent on their deathbeds is hardly convincing.

 

[Zelopes]

That’s a very good question. Maybe we should start a thread about what potential for salvation there is for those who are non-Christian for whatever reason-- and even disacuss the potential reasons?

If you start one, I would share and partake in it. I’ve read a lot on this from the Catholic perspective. I cannot say anything definitive for sure, but I could share what Catholicism has been teaching and that the potential for salvation certainly seems to be there.

Thank you for your thoughts on this issue. It seems to me that someone finally understood the point I have been trying to convey.

Unfortunately, I am not prepared to start a thread on it for the simple reason that I lack the knowledge basis to argue about such an important issue. On the other hand, I would be more than happy to contribute with my two cents if you or anyone else opens one.

You see, I have no formal education in Theology or such a solid foundation in Bible and Religion knowledge to make me reasonably confident that “my” thread would shed a positive and fruitful light into such a serious matter like this one.

I can only share what I think about the issue. Some people may even suspect that I have hidden agendas or any theory to advance. Nothing farthest from the truth. My intention is as simple as this: To put forward what is my sincere belief and hope that someone, somewhere gets to the bottom of my point and either corroborates it or proves me wrong. Period. Always with respect for each other’s honest beliefs.

But I caution you: Even if I am completely open and willing to “see the light” - and I think I am - on this as on any other issue, I am afraid it will not be an easy job for anyone to change my deep-rooted conviction that God could never let anyone down just because he/she sincerely believed and honestly followed the precepts of a religion other than the Catholic Creed. And I do not say this out of hidden convenience or with arrogance, but just because this is what my own mind tells me.

Please bear with me just one more moment so that I can tell you that the idea of God as the eternal and almighty being that necessarily HAS to exist, comes to me as naturally as the passing of time, the sun rising and the sunsetting, the blue skies during the day and the shine of the stars at night. And even if I understand that it is impossible to define God, I accept that, for our feeble human minds, it might be easier and still acceptable to say that He is perfect. As such, we should be allowed to think of Him as Absolute, as Eternal, as the Almighty, as the Truth, as the Justice and, by the same token, to understand that it is impossible for Him to be vengeful, partial, unfair, mad, rancorous, irate… This is for us, humans.
So, you see where I’m heading… God could never be unfair.
Hope to be reading more from you.
Thanks again.

 

[VociMike]

To be fair, it doesnt mean the doctrine can’t deal with the reality, or even that it’s necessarily wrong - the problem is that it becomes USELESS. What good is knowing that once your saved you are saved forever if you can never truly know you were saved in the first place? Its no good at all. Trying to salvage the theory by assuming that these people all repent on their deathbeds is hardly convincing.

Yes, you are correct. The doctrine may be true, but if one can never know with certainty that one is indeed saved, then the doctrine is useless. Worse than useless, perhaps, since the average sinning, stumbling Christian may sometimes have a hard time seeing himself as a saint certainly destined for heaven, which might lead him to despair.

 

[rbarcia]

I honestly don’t know that much about OSAS. I know that it stands for Once Saved Always Saved, implying that the Christian can essentially do almost whatever they want and still not lose their salvation.

I believe many people interpret OSAS as what you described, but this interpretation is incorrect. Those who follow OSAS in this fashion will find themselves out of luck on the day of judgement.

**

Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

**

But that does not mean one cannot have eternal security. The secret to unlocking all the parables is the parable of the sower (Mark 4).

**

Mark 4

13 And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?

**

The parable of the sower describes 4 responses to the gospel. The seed on the road is snatched up my Satan. The seed in the thorns are people who care more about the world than the things of heaven. But the seed on rocky ground becomes a believer for a season.

**

Luke 8

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

**

These are the believers who usually interpret OSAS to what you described. Many fit in this category because the lack repentance. They have no security at all.

I don’t know when the acronym started, probably sometime around or after the later part of the protestant reformation maybe. Either way, it seems as though some variation of this idea has been around for a while, particularly amongst the heretical gnostic Christians during the days of the apostles.

For example, Jude 1:4 says…

And these are usually the people who have no root. The rocky ground hearer.

I think that many who hold to some form of OSAS do not necessarilly believe that they are denying the Lord Jesus Christ by believing that once they are saved they are always saved. And some adhere to it more than others do for sure. But, in effect, they do appear to be transforming the grace of our God into a license for immorality by saying that we can sin all we like to without losing our salvation in Christ.

I would think many do this both in the catholic church (those who partake in the sacraments on Sunday, but sin Monday through Saturday. Willfully sinning is a denial of Christ.

In this sense, in my opinion, they are actually denying our only Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus, by saying that nothing matters except their faith which has saved them. As far as I can tell, they’re placing their own faith in God as being more important than the things God is actually calling them to do by the Holy Spirit.

Willfully sinning is a denial of Jesus no matter what the doctrine.

We are saved by the grace of God, through faith, and onto good works (Eph 2:8-10). We are saved through our faith. It is a living faith, that shows itself in works. The good works do not save us, they are evidence of our salvation. The seed that fell on good soil are those who have eternal security. They believed, and produced. The works happen because they believe.

**

Mark 4

20 But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

**

They hear, believe, and because they believe, they produce. There works do not earn salvation, they show it.

This is consistent with James, who shows his faith by works.

**

James 2:18

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

**

What a correct interpretation of Eternal Security will say is our works cannot earn our way into heaven. Our works come from God to begin with. (Eph 2:10). Our works may determine rewards in heaven for the believer, or punishment in hell for the unbeliever, but not our destination.

**

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

**

cont…

 

[rbarcia]

It isn’t Scriptural as far as I can tell. It’s not a Catholic idea either-- and I think the idea has been condemned on numerous occasions by our Catholic Church.

But for those who have root. The good soil hearer, then there is eternal security, by grace, through faith, and onto good works. There is scripture that show eternal security:

**

John 10

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Hebrews 6

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Romans 8

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:

  “ For Your sake we are killed all day long;
   We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”[a]

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out.

1 John 3

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

**

People have to come to Christ by faith. I agree that there are people who think they say a sinner’s prayer, and they are saved, and keep sinning willfully are not saved. But it is expected that a genuine believer will occasionally fall into sin. Even catholics distinguish mortal sin from venial sin? Venial sins do not dam, correct? A true believer will not commit mortal sin, or else they were never saved to begin with. I have shown this with above scripture. But a believer may occasionally fall.

**

1 John 5

16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

1 John 2

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

**

But the works are evidence, the effect, and not the cause. You have to admit, the language related to faith and works is always, believe first, and therefore they work. Not the other way around. Work without faith is as useless as faith without work.

**

Hebrews 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

1 John 5

1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[a] faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

**

Check out here for more information.

Thanks for the link, I have read this before. But I subscribe to believing alone as to not really believing at all. I have explained this above.

 

[Syele]

Please note: I realize that you do not subscribe to the 5 points of Calvinism as Calvin himself presented them Syele. My response above is more of a general one which illustrates why I do not accept this idea of the “Perserverence of the Saints”.

I agree with your points. (Glad to know we agree on something. LOL) I don’t subscribe to the Calvinist 5 points at all BTW, TULIP was written to show how wrong the 5 points of Arminius are. This makes them polar opposites.

All* Protestants fall into one of three groups:

1. Calvinists
2. Arminians
3. people who pick and chose bits from either side

I said Calvinists are logical because they can scripturally back up their 5 points without contradicting themselves. Arminians can do so as well. Those who mix them up make all sorts of weird contradictions and then say stuff like “We know we are right, we just can’t understand it because God is so immense…”

This is why I origionally had my “Religion” listed as “Arminian” I wasn’t stating a church denomination, but distinguishing myself from Calvinists. I removed it because it seemed to cause confusion rather than clarity.

*I know of no protestant group that dosn’t fit in one of these.

 

[DRIVING_BEAR]

first off FYI OSAS is referred to as “Eternal Security” in much of protestant lit.

when studying this keep in mind protestants believe that the word of god will never contradict it’s self

so for example John 6:47 Most assuredly i say to you , ******HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE.

SO ANY DOCTRIN THAT DENY’S OSAS MUST CONTRDICT THIS VERSE THEREFORE IS WRONG

 

[JonathanKinsman]

first off FYI OSAS is referred to as “Eternal Security” in much of protestant lit.

when studying this keep in mind protestants believe that the word of god will never contradict it’s self

so for example John 6:47 Most assuredly i say to you , HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE.

SO ANY DOCTRIN THAT DENY’S OSAS MUST CONTRDICT THIS VERSE THEREFORE IS WRONG

Driving Bear:

So as I understand you, once someone is ‘saved’ (I guess by believing only according to your citation above), it doesn’t matter what that person does or does not do?

What I am thinking is this: I am saved so what does that require of me? Nothing but belief in Jesus?

Please explain. Thanks

 

[Syele]

first off FYI OSAS is referred to as “Eternal Security” in much of protestant lit.

when studying this keep in mind protestants believe that the word of god will never contradict it’s self

so for example John 6:47 Most assuredly i say to you , HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE.

SO ANY DOCTRIN THAT DENY’S OSAS MUST CONTRDICT THIS VERSE THEREFORE IS WRONG

So what if you believe at first and then change your mind. By that verse do you have everlasting life or not?

 

[DRIVING_BEAR]

Driving Bear:

So as I understand you, once someone is ‘saved’ (I guess by believing only according to your citation above), it doesn’t matter what that person does or does not do?

What I am thinking is this: I am saved so what does that require of me? Nothing but belief in Jesus?

Please explain. Thanks

LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION
HOW MANY WORKS ARE YOU REQUIRED TO DO IN ADDATION TO FAITH TO GAIN SALVATION
WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS THE FORMULA .

THE SHORT ANSWER IS FAITH + NOTHING
PRODS. DO NOT PREACH THAT U SHOULD NOT DO GOODS WORKS ONLY THAT GOODS WORKS ARE THE
RESULT OF SALVATION NOT A PRECONDITION TO SALVATION

 

[Mannyfit75]

LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION
HOW MANY WORKS ARE YOU REQUIRED TO DO IN ADDATION TO FAITH TO GAIN SALVATION
WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS THE FORMULA .

THE SHORT ANSWER IS FAITH + NOTHING
PRODS. DO NOT PREACH THAT U SHOULD NOT DO GOODS WORKS ONLY THAT GOODS WORKS ARE THE
RESULT OF SALVATION NOT A PRECONDITION TO SALVATION

Can you refrain from using cap locks? It gives people a bad idea.

 

[colliric]

LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION
HOW MANY WORKS ARE YOU REQUIRED TO DO IN ADDATION TO FAITH TO GAIN SALVATION
WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS THE FORMULA .

THE SHORT ANSWER IS FAITH + NOTHING
PRODS. DO NOT PREACH THAT U SHOULD NOT DO GOODS WORKS ONLY THAT GOODS WORKS ARE THE
RESULT OF SALVATION NOT A PRECONDITION TO SALVATION

“Even so, Faith, if it have not good works, is dead, being alone”

James 2:14.

One cannot have faith in Jesus alone and expect to receive salvation. You must also have works to show for it which will prove your faith to Jesus teachings. Therefore Good works are in fact a precondition to your salvation:

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also”.

You cannot therefore say “I believe in Jesus” and assume you fall under the cloak of scripture and will be saved, because you must also PROVE your faith, through good works, which in turn strengthen your faith.

What good works must you do? I’m not sure, and I’m not sure how much, but use Jesus’ example of helping people and being faithful as a rod. There are other things we must do like consistently remembering Jesus through the eucharist, give the poor all of our loose change when they ask, Pray to god, pray for the good will of the saints and other departed souls, confess our sins to god(no doubt strengthened if we confess to a human representative too)… and all round try to live a good life.

If you lose faith, by not doing works, you can lose salvation. “he who believes in me”… does that mean that anyone who says “I believe in Jesus” will get into heaven? not bloody likely. In reality the passage is talking about true believers who do not “Talk the talk” but actually “walk the walk” as the passage from James clarifies that teaching from Jesus.