Thoughts on the British Invasion

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Gordon_Sims said:
That would have been too easy. Funny, though, because everyone I know who was alive at the time and loves The Beatles hates The Who. I just don’t get that. Then again, I know a handful of Beatles fans whose least favorite album is Sgt. Pepper. Talk about madness.
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To be honest I’m more of a fan of Please Please Me, Help, Revolver, the White Album and Abbey Road. Speaking of which, the Beatles themselves were (at first at least) the UK version of the Everly Brothers anyway. (Anybody remember those guys?)
 
patrick457 said:
To be honest I’m more of a fan of Please Please Me, Help, Revolver, the White Album and Abbey Road. Speaking of which, the Beatles themselves were (at first at least) the UK version of the Everly Brothers anyway. (Anybody remember those guys?)
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Yes, I’ve said this quite a few times in the past, the early Beatles’ harmonies are often very reminiscent of the Everly Brothers’ harmonies i.e. Kathy’s Clown, Bye Bye Love. I’ve had better examples in the past, I haven’t discussed this in a while.
 
British Invasion was a phenomenon of the 1960s, why bring up Oasis? Might as well bring up the Clash and all kinds of bands though Oasis did hearken back to that sound in part.
 
Wow- need to add some groups to your list:

Yes
Moody Blues
Emerson Lake and Palmer
Cream
Jethro Tull
Foghat

However, I voted Zeppelin but it was almost a toss-up between them and the Rolling Stones-- with Foghat being third.

That’s because those three bands got me into American blues-- listened to Sonny Boy Williamson’s album “Its A Bloody Life” because Jimmy Page played guitar on it. Which got me into Blind Lemon Jefferson, B.B. King, Johnny Lee Hooker, Etta James etc. etc. etc.

That got me to pay attention to and note the blues references and covers by Foghat (every song on Foghat ‘Live’ is a cover of a blues tune), Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
🙂

Just to be clear, I’m referring to the musical phenomenon whereby British music enjoyed an overwhelming period of success and influence in America, that started with The Beatles in 1964 and lasted until 1968. Although nobody seems to be able to agree on what specifically closed the period, a few things I read pointed to the release of Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.
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I remember Paul Revere and the Raiders. I liked their song I’m Henry VIII I Am. I think they were British.
 
Path_Finder said:
Yes, I’ve said this quite a few times in the past, the early Beatles’ harmonies are often very reminiscent of the Everly Brothers’ harmonies i.e. Kathy’s Clown, Bye Bye Love. I’ve had better examples in the past, I haven’t discussed this in a while.
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Well, John and Paul did refer themselves once as the English Everly Brothers, so there is an influence.
Path_Finder said:
And Led Zeppelin? They are good but they are certainly tainted that you can look up “Led Zeppelin” and “plagiarism” and it does appear they did do that, for example, there best known song I’d say though not their best is “Stairway to Heaven”, I’m sorry, one can check out that they indeed did appear to take from a song by “Spirit” on those opening chords. That doesn’t mean they did not make great music but some of it surely, is not original and they have been through such litigation.
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The problem is, there is a fine line between ‘blatant ripoff’ and ‘intentional homage’ and ‘unintentional / subconscious influence’ and ‘coincidence’. This is not limited to music, though it is certainly something you see more often in that field.

I mean, in the 90s, just about every other song was similar to Pachelbel’s Canon in D or even outright used it. 😃
 
Gordon_Sims said:
🙂

Just to be clear, I’m referring to the musical phenomenon whereby British music enjoyed an overwhelming period of success and influence in America, that started with The Beatles in 1964 and lasted until 1968. Although nobody seems to be able to agree on what specifically closed the period, a few things I read pointed to the release of Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.
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Not sure who invests these statements with authority, but I’ve read that some critics consider David Bowie to be the last British Invasion rock star - or perhaps the last iteration of it. (Though it has to be noted that it took a while and repeated attempts before he caught on here.) While his original fans were a little younger than the fans of the Beatles and Rolling Stones, he himself is only a year or two younger than George Harrison, the youngest Beatle.

To me, considering him to have closed out the era has a nice symmetry to it.
 
I would not want to be argumentative on this; there are CD releases of “British Invasion” hits and songs.

The Beatles were the “Pinnacle” of the Invasion but they likewise were from Merseyside (or however one wants to put it), they had the Mersey Beat as well as other bands from that Liverpool area.
The British Invasion was a phenomenon that occurred in the mid-1960s when rock and pop music acts from the United Kingdom,[1] as well as other aspects of British culture, became popular in the United States, and significant to the rising “counterculture” on both sides of the Atlantic.[2] Pop and rock groups such as the Beatles, the Dave Clark Five,[3] the Kinks,[4] the Rolling Stones, Herman’s Hermits and the Who[5] were at the forefront of the invasion.[6]
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One week after the Beatles entered the Hot 100 for the first time, Dusty Springfield, having launched a solo career after her participation in the Springfields, became the next British act to reach the Hot 100, with “I Only Want to Be with You”, which fell just short of the top 10. She soon followed up with several other hits, becoming what AllMusic described as “the finest white soul singer of her era.”[31] On the Hot 100, Dusty’s solo career lasted almost as long, albeit with little more than one quarter of the hits, as the Beatles’ group career before their breakup. During the next two years or so, Peter and Gordon, the Animals, Manfred Mann, Petula Clark,[32] Freddie and the Dreamers, Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders,[33] Herman’s Hermits,[34] the Rolling Stones,[35] the Dave Clark Five,[36] the Troggs, Donovan,[37] and Lulu in 1967, would have one or more number one singles in the US.[10] Other Invasion acts included the Searchers,[38] Billy J. Kramer,[39] the Bachelors,[40] Chad & Jeremy,[41] Gerry and the Pacemakers,[42] the Honeycombs,[43] Them[13] (and later its lead singer, Van Morrison), Tom Jones,[44] the Yardbirds (whose guitarist Jimmy Page would later form Led Zeppelin),[45] the Spencer Davis Group, the Small Faces, and numerous others.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Invasion

So, this is a bit the way I see this.
As 1965 approached another wave of British Invasion artists emerged which consisted usually of either of groups playing in a more pop style, such as the Hollies or the Zombies or with a harder-driving, blues-based approach such as the Who.[52]
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The Hollies, they had some good songs.

The Animals too, “House of the Rising Sun”.

Some good, I use to really like some of these songs.

Dusty Springfield was a great talent, there are a number of books on her at Amazon.

youtube.com/watch?v=ilqKtJrs12w

Before she became a big singer, she sang with the Springfields, her brother was in the band and her brother became a song writer in his own right, he wrote among other songs, “I’ll never find another you” which the Seekers performed.

By the way, Springfield was not their real last name. Her name was Mary O’Brien. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dusty_Springfield She overcame breast cancer only to have it come back. Tragic. Quite a talent.
 
patrick457 said:
Well, John and Paul did refer themselves once as the English Everly Brothers, so there is an influence.

The problem is, there is a fine line between ‘blatant ripoff’ and ‘intentional homage’ and ‘unintentional / subconscious influence’ and ‘coincidence’. This is not limited to music, though it is certainly something you see more often in that field.

I mean, in the 90s, just about every other song was similar to Pachelbel’s Canon in D or even outright used it. 😃
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Joan Baez, the band “Spirit” whom they toured with. This certainly is quite a bit beyond coincidence. It would be one thing if it was just the old blues masters.

They have had to give song writing credits on their albums to songs they previously did not and have had to pay sums of money besides.

That’s a bit gossipy but there is plenty out there that indicates this.
 
Path_Finder said:
Joan Baez, the band “Spirit” whom they toured with. This certainly is quite a bit beyond coincidence. It would be one thing if it was just the old blues masters.

They have had to give song writing credits on their albums to songs they previously did not and have had to pay sums of money besides.

That’s a bit gossipy but there is plenty out there that indicates this.
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Led Zeppelin’s production is genius, some songs they probably authored like Kashmir are genius and Jimmy Page is one of the best rock guitarists ever, I’d probably put him after Jimi Hendrix actually though personally, I love to listen to Rory Gallagher, Stevie Ray Von and others, Cliff Gallup too.

This isn’t to take away from Led Zeppelin, it is just what appears to be factual. Despite everything, they probably do have the best music to listen to.
 
Path_Finder said:
Led Zeppelin’s production is genius, some songs they probably authored like Kashmir are genius and Jimmy Page is one of the best rock guitarists ever, I’d probably put him after Jimi Hendrix actually though personally, I love to listen to Rory Gallagher, Stevie Ray Von and others, Cliff Gallup too.

This isn’t to take away from Led Zeppelin, it is just what appears to be factual. Despite everything, they probably do have the best music to listen to.
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As much as I like Zeppelin, looking back on the classic rock stations I listened to it’s a wonder I didn’t get sick of them. You were guaranteed to hear at least two Zeppelin songs per hour on each station, plus each one had a whole hour devoted to them each day, and for a while one was doing Zeppelin weekends where they’d play nothing but Led Zeppelin. There wasn’t a song from any of their studio albums that didn’t get played at least once each week and the only day of the week it was possible to her Stairway to Heaven less than 3-4 times was their no repeat days, and then you’d hear it at least twice if you flipped between stations.

One funny thing about it is that it was actually the lack of the Beatles and the Stones that got me to appreciate them more. Their Stones policy (both stations) was to pretty much only play Sympathy for the Devil, You Can’t Always Get What You Want, Start Me Up, Gimme Shelter and Paint It Black. They’d throw in a few others occasionally but I didn’t listen to much more than that until a friend who was nuts about the Stones convinced me to buy Hot Rocks. With The Beatles, they wouldn’t play anything prior to Sgt. Pepper’s because that was strictly the oldies stations’ turf. It wasn’t until I wore out my Sgt. Pepper’s tape that I really started listening to their early stuff (outside of when my mom played it when I was a kid, but I had no appreciation for it then because it was mom music). They played the Who almost as much as Zeppelin and Free Bird so I was well versed in them all along.
 
Path_Finder said:
Joan Baez, the band “Spirit” whom they toured with. This certainly is quite a bit beyond coincidence. It would be one thing if it was just the old blues masters.

They have had to give song writing credits on their albums to songs they previously did not and have had to pay sums of money besides.

That’s a bit gossipy but there is plenty out there that indicates this.
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Speaking of which, that Sex Pistols song Holidays in the Sun. Now that’s an obvious ripoff of The Jam’s In The City. 😃

(I confess: I like listening to punk music now and then - though I never really subscribe to the ideologies associated with it or the whole elitist ‘us versus sellouts’ mentality - but I never liked the Pistols. (Speaking of the 70s, I’m more of a Clash / Ramones type of guy.) Methinks they’re very overrated.)
 
patrick457 said:
(I confess: I like listening to punk music now and then - though I never really subscribe to the ideologies associated with it or the whole elitist ‘us versus sellouts’ mentality - but I never liked the Pistols. (Speaking of the 70s, I’m more of a Clash / Ramones type of guy.) Methinks they’re very overrated.)
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I definitely concur. I spent the evening listening to Patti Smith’s Horses one night last week. It was the first time I’d listened to it all the way through. There’s some great stuff on there.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
I definitely concur. I spent the evening listening to Patti Smith’s Horses one night last week. It was the first time I’d listened to it all the way through. There’s some great stuff on there.
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Wow, I haven’t heard Patti Smith yet. It’s on to my to-check list.

But seriously, I think the real reason why the Pistols are still even talked about nowadays are simply because they did a lot of outrageous stuff back in the day. Their antics are what earned them publicity. Musically, IMO they’re pretty much meh. It didn’t help that they kicked the one talented guy (bassist Glen Matlock) from the band for, well, being too talented. (And liking the Beatles apparently.)
 
Gordon_Sims said:
I definitely concur. I spent the evening listening to Patti Smith’s Horses one night last week. It was the first time I’d listened to it all the way through. There’s some great stuff on there.
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Didn’t Patti Smith sing an openly blasphemous song on SNL? (This was years before Sinead O’Connor ripped up a picture of the pope on the show.) The one punk band I will never get sick of hearing is Wire - one of the most prolific bands ever - their first three albums are classics - and they are STILL, in 2015, recording new music. And, best of all, there’s very little if (any) objectionable content in any of their songs. Wish I could say the same thing about The Fall (who are also still recording new music in 2015.)
 
patrick457 said:
Wow, I haven’t heard Patti Smith yet. It’s on to my to-check list.

But seriously, I think the real reason why the Pistols are still even talked about nowadays are simply because they did a lot of outrageous stuff back in the day. Their antics are what earned them publicity. Musically, IMO they’re pretty much meh. It didn’t help that they kicked the one talented guy (bassist Glen Matlock) from the band for, well, being too talented. (And liking the Beatles apparently.)
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I got the Pistols’ album years ago mainly because it’s one of those albums that people say you “have to” own. I can’t say that there’s anything on there I ever listen to intentionally. If I hit shuffle and something of theirs comes on, I may or may not listen. I still listen to the Clash and Ramones a good deal, though.
 
“Bodies” is one of the most pro-life songs ever recorded, and “Pretty Vacant” is pretty easy to learn on guitar (especially the opening few bars), but other than that, the whole album’s pretty much a joke and any of The Dead Kennedys albums have held up MUCH better. (“Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables” is practically “Sgt. Pepper” compared to “Never Mind The Bollocks.”) Of course, “Sid & Nancy” - with Gary Oldman playing Sid Vicious - used to be one of my favorite movies and I still have the soundtrack. The older I get, however, it seems the more tragic. I watched it again a few months ago and, yep, more tragic than I remember it the time I had seen it before.

The Clash and The Ramones are/were both pretty conservative - in the Clash’s case, continuing humanitarian work in Joe Strummer’s memory and in the Ramones’ case, Joey Ramone famously covering “What a Wonderful World” and even writing a song about Maria Bartiromo from CNBC.
 
A couple of the other greats from that era: The Kinks and the Yardbirds. I also LOVE the song “Love is All Around” by the Troggs (although I’m not as familiar with the rest of their output besides “Wild Thing”)
 
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