Thoughts on the future: please support *multiple* sites

[dochawk]

This started as a reply on another thread, and I realized it should be its own.
(please don’t add advocacy [or detraction] for any particular site, and keep this to discussion, whether agreeing or disagreeing, on the multiple site thought.)

and I’d rather dig one deep well, than many shallow ones.

The more I think about it, the more important I think it is that there be multiple successors.

I’ve seen a couple of suggested existing sites, and a couple of folks launching new sites.

Some will be “looser”, and some tighter than CAF. Some will be open-access, and some will be invitation only. Moderation will be in varying degrees.

I’d encourage people to support all of the fora that they are not downright uncomfortable with, rather than choosing a single basket for all of their eggs.

Let’s be realistic: most of the attempts won’t survive the year. It would be nice to see multiple surviving sites.

I’m rather deliberately avoiding mention on any of the possible sites.

I will note, though, that I’m talking to others about a possible site that would generally follow the types of group currently present on CAF, but with actual implementation of sub-moderator actions (analogous to the unimplemented TL4 group), and “shifts” for volunteer moderators. I’ll provide an email address by PM for those who want an announcement if it does launch.

Which brings up another issue: realistically, I would encourage ToS for all of the sites that allows the site to “fold” into another site if it seems to be working out better, leading to a mass and automatic enrollment (with opt-out) at that time.

 

[MarysLurker]

I agree, for many reasons.

• Web forums do not scale well on a cost efficiency basis. The bigger, the more maintenence.
• The main advantage of being “big” is that it is easier to get bigger by rising in the search engine ranks, etc.
• However, there are not enough dedicated web savvy Catholics who would prefer a web forum to alternatives like social media to make a “big” forum viable. This is why CAF is closing.

If you are familiar with the concept of the Benedict Option, and the arguments for and around it, the concept of many small and focused web “missions” replacing the one big declining “parish” is intuitive.

What other forums on the Internet are similar to CAF? Evangelization

That “let’s all get banned” post on the Patrons forum had better be just a bad joke. It is in very poor taste. Hopefully you are not right about this. I’ve said before that CAF is a microcosm of the future of the Church. It looks like that is coming to pass. Now we have the parish closures which will leave behind a smaller, faithful remnant (on other fora) a la Benedict XVI’s prophecy.

 

[Cruciferi]

Yes, there are a lot of choices out there. I only like one though. The others are dated or without an Admin. I also prefer a Forum that works with my IPhone. So, there ya’ go…

 

[Servant31]

I both agree, but also have a few challenges with smaller forums. I think you bring up many great points here, and I think there are real benefits and advantages to multiple smaller sites.

However one of the main components I’ve come to appreciate about Catholicism is the broad diversity of opinions, built on the main theme. I like being challenged by others, disagreed and agreed with… it’s often a point of growth for everyone.

One of the challenges I’ve seen with smaller groups or parishes is they can become cliquish, or focused around a few strong personalities. The problem is that this can sometimes deviate from truth, doctrine, and even right morals. The tone and decorum matter.

And let’s be honest, on many forums everything is fine, just don’t rock the boat, never say anything controversial, as adjudicated by mods or popular opinion. Personally I’m searching for truth, convenient or uncomfortable.

Hopefully time will tell as the year goes on… there is opportunity in every change.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Realistically, if I’m one of the people running a site, I’m personally not going to have time to support others.

Having said that, I don’t see the focus of the site I started, basically for fellowship and devotional purposes, as being on apologetics or philosophy, and by popular demand it has no World News section and posting of news other than Catholic News is discouraged. So if somebody is really into apologetics or arguing/ debating/ whatever over politics and world news every day, by all means they should go find or make a site that will allow them to do those things that they enjoy.

The main reason I and a lot of other people kept coming to CAF in spite of the trolls, flags, suspensions, rude posters insisting several times a week I was going to Hell or doing some other bad thing etc. is for friendly fellowship with other Catholics who use the Internet. A lot of us made friendships on here. That’s what I’m most interested in continuing, in a more stable atmosphere where people don’t have to worry that any minute they might get banned, or kicked out of a “lounge”, and thus lose contact with their friends.

 

[FrankFletcher]

I both agree, but also have a few challenges with smaller forums. I think you bring up many great points here, and I think there are real benefits and advantages to multiple smaller sites.

However one of the main components I’ve come to appreciate about Catholicism is the broad diversity of opinions, built on the main theme. I like being challenged by others, disagreed and agreed with… it’s often a point of growth for everyone.

One of the challenges I’ve seen with smaller groups or parishes is they can become cliquish, or focused around a few strong personalities. The problem is that this can sometimes deviate from truth, doctrine, and even right morals. The tone and decorum matter.

And let’s be honest, on many forums everything is fine, just don’t rock the boat, never say anything controversial, as adjudicated by mods or popular opinion. Personally I’m searching for truth, convenient or uncomfortable.

Hopefully time will tell as the year goes on… there is opportunity in every change.

I too don’t want to always agree with everyone — I don’t think learning happens in that sort of place. To each his own.

I also reject the Benedictine Option in all parts of my life. Christians are called to be in the world but not of it. The BO removes people from the world when it becomes too negative. That’s not what I think we should be doing as followers of Christ.

 

[MarysLurker]

However one of the main components I’ve come to appreciate about Catholicism is the broad diversity of opinions, built on the main theme. I like being challenged by others, disagreed and agreed with… it’s often a point of growth for everyone.

What other forums on the Internet are similar to CAF? Evangelization

That “let’s all get banned” post on the Patrons forum had better be just a bad joke. It is in very poor taste. Hopefully you are not right about this. I’ve said before that CAF is a microcosm of the future of the Church. It looks like that is coming to pass. Now we have the parish closures which will leave behind a smaller, faithful remnant (on other fora) a la Benedict XVI’s prophecy.

In line with the CAF as microcosm concept, you have probably noticed that parishes IRL are either closing or becoming narrowly focused (liturgically, doctrinally, liberal vs conservative etc ). Demographics and macro trends are working to push this trend away from the concept of a broad church. The loss of what you describe is a sad but unavoidable consequence.

 

[MNathaniel]

I also reject the Benedictine Option in all parts of my life. Christians are called to be in the world but not of it. The BO removes people from the world when it becomes too negative. That’s not what I think we should be doing as followers of Christ.

I don’t come down on either ‘side’ of this one, myself. (That is, I don’t think the Benedict Option is either an absolute ‘yes’ or an absolute ‘no’).

In practice, so far in my life, I’ve persisted in putting myself in difficult and uncomfortable worldly situations, not taking easy opportunities to be distant from problems that need solving. I can’t seem to resist doing the hardest possible thing if no one else is stepping up to it. And at the same time, I think there’s merit to the idea of putting on your own oxygen mask before you try to help others. It may be that I could have been doing more good for others if I had removed myself from with the chaos sooner, and approached folks from the outside once I’m in a place of peace myself. And honestly, I’m exhausted.

When I hear people making casual reference to the idea of the Benedict option, I actually hear wisdom in it. It doesn’t mean someone is necessarily being unwise to stay in the muck and try to make change there – and honestly, in small ways God has allowed me to see evidence of change around me – but I’m open to the idea that wisdom might, at times, involve a certain level of ‘retreat’ from things that harm us, when they harm us to the point that we can no longer effectively help others. And that’s what I hear in the Benedict option. Making space within which to be more spiritually healthy and strong as an individual – so that when one does go out, one has good, clear, strong fruits to share: not sickened or weak fruits.

I guess when I hear the Benedict option, I imagine something like a community of Active Religious sisters. They do go out and serve in the world – but they come home continually to a set-apart community of devoted fellow Catholics, sharing one mind and heart about things. (Obviously individual personalities do continue to exist, but one mind with regards to the vow of Obedience, and one heart with regards to the prayerful devotion to Christ who unites us with his one heart.)

 

[MarysLurker]

The BO removes people from the world when it becomes too negative.

That is a common misconception of it. The point of the Benedict Option is not to withdraw from society. The point is to create a protected space in which intentional disciples, such as one’s own children, can be formed to go out and evangelize.

Stop Misunderstanding the Benedict Option

 

[dochawk]

size and scalability is a serious issue, but I’m also thinking in terms of survivability.

There are a number of legitimate choices approaches. In hindsight, we might even figure out why some worked better than others, but they’re not all going to survive.

My concern is having enough sites with high enough profile that they get found . . .

 

[MarysLurker]

My concern is having enough sites with high enough profile that they get found . . .

I actually think that the notion of achieving a high profile is a losing battle.

Consider Pope Francis, who has tried to raise the Church’s profile by engaging in social issues so as to promote dialogue with those outside the Church. The results so far are mixed to say the least. Or consider CAF itself. The whole point of CAF was to create a high profile place for such dialogue. The verdict is in and we lost.

Forgive me for what I’m about to say… but the whole model of raise-profile-to-evangelize is doomed to failure in today’s world… for the simple reason that today’s world does not want to hear what we, the Church, have to say.

If the world really was interested in the Catholic Church such that all we needed to do was go out and engage, then CAF and especially Pope Francis would have been successful. They weren’t.

Instead of trying to build community with the world, we need to build up the communities we already have. The seekers will come to us when they see us authentically living the Faith in contrast to the world, not in compromise to it.

 

[Servant31]

Well props for putting the “money where the mouth is”. A bit of action can go a long way towards a community.

I encourage all members to support financially forums like this, I think there are often lurkers and evangelization going in we may never be aware of.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

What other forums on the Internet are similar to CAF?

and I’d rather dig one deep well, than many shallow ones.

The more I think about it, the more important I think it is that there be multiple successors.

I’ve seen a couple of suggested existing sites, and a couple of folks launching new sites.

Some will be “looser”, and some tighter than CAF. Some will be open-access, and some will be invitation only. Moderation will be in varying degrees.

I’d encourage people to support all of the fora that they are not downright uncomfortable with, rather than choosing a single basket for all of their eggs.

Good thoughts, but believe it or not, even as a retiree, my time is limited. I am pulled in a lot of different directions at once — preparing the simplest of Thanksgiving dinners for my family, turkey casserole and spice cake, started about 2 pm and ended around 7 pm (I was interrupted a lot and had to stop and start back) — and haven’t time for multiple forums. Maybe a couple, but that’s about it.

CA really threw all of for a loop about 30 hours ago, and I couldn’t be more impressed with the steps various people have taken to continue what we’ve built here. The principle of subsidiarity at work!

 

[RobertAdams]

I think “The Benedict Option” is self congratulatory garbage which essentially says “It doesn’t matter what happens to the Church because it’ll just get rid of everyone who’s not as good as me.”

 

[MarysLurker]

I think “The Benedict Option” is self congratulatory garbage which essentially says “It doesn’t matter what happens to the Church because it’ll just get rid of everyone who’s not as good as me.”

Then you probably don’t have young children.

 

[RobertAdams]

Then you probably don’t have young children.

Or I think my kids would be better off if the Church is bigger and there’s a wider spread Catholic culture than if I try to try to hang all my hopes on finding a likeminded group of eat your own purists…pretty sure the guy who wrote the BO book isn’t even Catholic anymore…

 

[Tis_Bearself]

pretty sure the guy who wrote the BO book isn’t even Catholic anymore…

He’s not. He just goes around exploiting the Church by complaining about it constantly for his own personal advancement and gain.

 

[MarysLurker]

pretty sure the guy who wrote the BO book isn’t even Catholic anymore

Yes, he is Orthodox now. The fact that Catholics, Protestants and many others consider his opinions in spite of it proves that the caricature of the Benedict Option as a retreat into a bubble of like minded people is wrong.

 

[MarysLurker]

Or I think my kids would be better off if the Church is bigger and there’s a wider spread Catholic culture

There is not a widespread Catholic, or even Judeo-Christian, culture anymore. The popular culture says lying, fornication, theft, drugs, divorce, etc. are good things. You cannot raise a family in that culture. Full stop.

 

[RobertAdams]

the caricature of the Benedict Option as a retreat into a bubble of like minded people is wrong.

Lol, probably fair to call my messageboard description a “caricature,” and I’m sure there is more nuance in most people’s beliefs.

Still, I do think the sentiment of the BO, the statements of Pope Benedict regarding a smaller church, the focus on forming small especially pure subgroups and routing out “Cafeteria Catholicism” which has marked parts of the church for most of my adult life has been essentially misguided. There’s just something about having a lot of Catholics which makes it easier for more of them to get into Catholicism…