Thoughts on the Pope's New Values

[Tis_Bearself]

If the OP actually had a sincere concern that Pope Francis was tolerant of abortion, the three articles Lumine Diel posted should clear him right up.

Look, I can understand a lot of the concerns people have with Pope Francis. I understand that a change to the Catechism on the death penalty can look to some like the Church teaching suddenly changed, even if I personally don’t see it that way and don’t see it as a big deal. I understand the dubia over Amoris Laetitia even if I again don’t see AL as a major problem.

But helping a person to repent, confess and come back to the Church is simply NOT a change in Church values - especially when Pope Francis continues to stress the grave sin and evil of abortion. Encouraging repentance, confession and return to the Church has been Christian teaching since day 1. I’m also wondering why this OP is so concerned with somebody else’s confession and absolution. It’s frankly none of his business, and the main reason for publicizing the story at all is to encourage those who regret having an abortion or procuring an abortion for someone else to “come home”. That is what Lent is all about. Repentance and “coming home”.

It is just a bizarre thing for someone to say, “I’m troubled by the fact that priests are forgiving other people for a sin” and claim that this is a change in Church values. The only “unforgivable sin” according to Scripture is denying Christ, and a person making a confession is certainly NOT denying Christ or s/he wouldn’t even be bothering to come to confession.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

If the OP actually had a sincere concern that Pope Francis was tolerant of abortion, the three articles Lumine Diel posted should clear him right up.

I agree, but he called him troll in that post already, without leaving him chance to actually correct himself.

But helping a person to repent, confess and come back to the Church is simply NOT a change in Church values - especially when Pope Francis continues to stress the grave sin and evil of abortion

I agree, that’s why I said he misinterpreted Pope’s goal. I’d rather correct his views than denounce him as troll or something. It’s far more helpful, especially since he came himself and asked.

I see animosity towards post-abortive women when someone appears to want to keep them from seeking reconciliation (and I’ve been around post-abortive women, so I’m very thankful that when they seek to come back to God, they can be reconciled in the confessional with their parish priest- I’m in the United States and it’s been this way for years).

We all should be, coming back to God is something people should value a lot, and I agree they should be forgiven and let back into Church if sincere attempt is made from them. OP clearly did not understand goal Pope had in mind when doing so, which is why he got distracted by probably some sede-vacantist theories or pro-Orthodox people. I’m just trying no help him see, like this forums helped me before.

 

[Jbrady]

What would you suggest he do regarding the animosity he has towards others?

because internet is full of such sources claiming Pope is bad etc (not the case).

The first step would be for him to religiously avoid the alt-Cath fake news sites like Church Militiant, LifeSiteNews and the National Catholic Register, as well as the Rad Trad websites and forums. It’s patently obvious he’s drawing most of his (mis) information from sources like that. It’s clear that he has overdosed on their poison, and has been contaminated by their hostility and animosity.

 

[TheTraditionalMan]

Sorry everyone, to clear up the abortion part-
No, I am not a troll.
I have seen the articles where Pope Francis mentioned being against abortion, hence my mentioning of it in the original post. I stated, " In some situations, Pope Francis really defends the church and its traditional views. Be it abortion…"

I wrote that it was worrying me, that he “amended rules to make it easier for priests for forgive women who have had abortion in the confessional.” I was never trying to state that repenting is invalid or that I was trying to take the right to repent away from women.
We are all sinners after all.

However, I was questioning if a loosening of rules concerning this could bring more faithful women towards making a decision such as aborting. This is not the step right now but I was worried about this being a lead into a future where things turn more tolerant. Publicly stating that it would be easier for priests to forgive to me sounded like it could go into a wrong direction. After all, I believed that priests do forgive in the confessional either way.

Of course it is important to bring sinners back into the church, including homosexuals, etc. However, as seen in some of these forum answers, the values of people in the church do change over time and I believe we need to be careful not to stray too far from the tradition. 50 years ago, answers here would have been different, which shows that the values we are learning do affect our take on the religion. This way my concern, if we are heading in the right direction.

Thank you to everyone that explained the situation to me and that it’s important to remain faithful in times like these. In no way was I trying to insult or talk bad about Pope Francis, my post came out of genuine concern. We have had Popes that have genuinely been bad people and the Holy Church is still alive. However, the name of the church has lost in importance in many societies that were strong Christians in the last generation, which is what has fuelled my concerns and brought me to question if more tolerance is the way to go. In other areas, Christianity is growing. Everything will come the way it should.

Also;
In no way was I trying to say women who have had abortions and truly repent shouldn’t be members of the church any longer. God is all forgiving, so why should some man in an internet forum decide against this.

 

[HeDa]

wrote that it was worrying me, that he “amended rules to make it easier for priests for forgive women who have had abortion in the confessional.” I was never trying to state that repenting is invalid or that I was trying to take the right to repent away from women.

In many dioceses it used to be that the bishop or a few selected priests heard the confession of a person who had or helped a person have an abortion. Now that every priest can hear the confession it is a lot easier for the penitent to confess as he or she doesn’t have to travel that far. Some dioceses are very large and travel costs shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[Neithan]

I don’t think that Pope Francis is tolerant of abortion; but what about the Orthodox tolerance of divorce and remarriage?

Also some people are born intersex — they have a mix of XX and XY chromosomes. Is that a mistake?

Maybe you do need to go Orthodox for a while. Godspeed! They aren’t perfect, either. It’s an Apostolic church so you’ll have all the sacraments.

I pray that we see an ecumenical council and reunification of the Church soon.

 

[Wesrock]

as well as tolerance towards abortions (“amended rules to make it easier for priests to forgive women who have had abortions in the confessional.”)

The Pope has been strong in his condemnation of abortion. He is not tolerating it. He’s a big believer in mercy and making it easy for the prodigal son to return to the fold. Whether this is an effective method is one thing, but there’s nothing doctrinally suspect here.

For example in the one interview, where he *allegedly * said that a gay man was made like that by God.

Everyone and everything is made by God. If a nature fails to instantiate fully, it’s because God permitted that it be so, and it is absolutely under his providence.

Pope’s aren’t impeccable. Even their personal beliefs are not guaranteed infallible (just speaking generally here). The Church is protected from them formally changing Church dogma.

 

[Mi_Rose]

It is easier because in the past because only certain priests could hear that sin. Then the priest communicated with the Bishop and the Bishop would tell the priest he could absolve the sin.
I imagine that might m ake a woman hesitant. Now she just has to go to confession like any other sinner.

 

[Vico]

…

Pope Sixtus V attached the penalty of excommunication to abortion in his Papal Bull in 1588. Since not all sins are crimes, but all crimes are sins, Pope Francis has allowed priests to lift the crime (penalty of excommunication) in addition to absolving the sin.

 

[sevenswords]

I had some conflict also but when I read Mathew 23 where Jesus calls the pharisees a multitude of names and accuses them of many things, hence they killed him, yet after saying all these things he told the people to do what they say? hence I will stick with the Pope and the church as Christ told us to in this passage, but I will not imitate them.

 

[Beryllos]

The first step would be for him to religiously avoid the alt-Cath fake news sites like Church Militiant, LifeSiteNews and the National Catholic Register, as well as the Rad Trad websites and forums. It’s patently obvious he’s drawing most of his (mis) information from sources like that. It’s clear that he has overdosed on their poison, and has been contaminated by their hostility and animosity.

@TheTraditionalMan, I too suspect this is a large cause of the your difficulty. Too many “Catholic” websites and blogs present things in a provocative way, mostly against the Pope and against divorced, gay, and other struggling believers. Don’t accept that point of view just because you see it on several blogs/websites; they copy material from each other, often without going to the original sources and examining the facts for themselves.

If you spend a lot of time on such websites, consider taking a break from it and focusing on other faith-building and charitable activities.

 

[TheTraditionalMan]

I’m sorry, I should have clarified, I haven’t been on any of the named websites. I actually didn’t even dive into an radical website or anything of that nature. My thoughts originated through my own interpretation. I have only been studying the Holy Bible and was never really interested in specific groups.

 

[Beryllos]

Great! It is very good that you are looking closely at current events in the Church, thinking about what you see, and testing and questioning everything. Feel free to come here often to share your thoughts, and may the Holy Spirit assist and guide you on the Way.