Thoughts on what age dating should start?

[EasterJoy]

Reading this thread really makes me see what an anomaly I am. I’m a teen (16) who thinks dating is more trouble than it’s worth (although that currently applies to all male-female relationships, not just those before the age of 20). My parents realize that this is merely an unusual kind of immaturity in me, and encourage me to talk to boys I like and get to know them. They encourage me to go to dances. And if I wanted to, they would encourage me to date.

I think the right age mostly depends on the kid.

It is not immature to have no interest in romantic relationships…whoever gave you that idea? Goodness heavens, some of the most mature people I know did not date in high school! Some did not marry until late in life, but they have married well. I’m sure others do not marry at all. That is not only OK, it leaves you entirely free to give yourself to the Lord.

It is OK for your parents to encourage you to do the things that are popular among young people your age, because they might naturally want to be certain that neither they nor false fears are holding you back. If you just don’t want to do it, though, that is not in any way immature or disordered. Those who do are not disordered, either, but as St. Paul said of the married, “such people will experience affliction in their earthly life, and I would like to spare you that.” 1 Cor. 7:28b So if you do not want to date, count yourself as having been spared temptation. Otherwise, unless you have uncharitable sentiments about those who do date, do not worry about it.

 

[Cat]

Are you saying that you would not have had such a great relationship if you had been required to keep yourselves properly chaperoned until you were 18?

Don’t you also agree that being raised well includes having been raised to avoid near occasions of sin, and that it is foolish for any of us to think we ought not to need or want any help in keeping out of the tide of our passions? Nature should not be underestimated. The desires that grow between men and women, even very young ones, are like a swollen stream only two feet deep. They do not look like much, but they have enough power to take trains off of their tracks. There have been many adults, adults who are married to other people, who worked together in offices and neglected that analogy to their everlasting regret. Even some priests and consecrated religious have fallen into that trap, and I think young people need some help in giving it a wide berth.

My whole point in all of my posts in this thread is to point out that when people date young ,while they’re still home, the PARENTS hold all the cards and that if a teen dates young, the parents are there to help them “avoid near occasions of sin” and fight against all hell if necessary to save the teen’s body and soul from death.

One wrong move, one little peep out the teenager, one sassy LOOK from the teen, and the parents can pull the plug on the dating thing and everything else the teenager does. They hold all the money, the car keys, the house keys, EVERYTHING. They can make a parental decision to pull up stakes and move away from a neighborhood, a town, or even a state in order to get a teenager away from evil influences (e.g., a boyfriend or girlfriend) and give the teen and the family a fresh start.

I personally think an excellent consequence for a teen that has crossed a line is for the parents to go everywhere with the teen, and even sleep on a cot in the teen’s bedroom for a week or so. I think most teenagers would rather be flogged than have their parents go along with them everywhere for a week.

And I think that parents should put limits on dating relationships, and as long as the teenager is living at home, with the parents, the parents can do just that. We did. For a long time, our 14-year old and her 16-year old boyfriend were required to date in groups, and not allowed to be out “alone.” They had a very early curfew, and the boy had to come into the house and talk to us before leaving with our daughter. They had to go to church. There were other rules, too, and our daughter and her boyfriend obeyed all of our rules and respected us. Oh, I’m not stupid. I’m sure they did a little too much “deep” kissing. But they respected the rules that we, the parents, set for them. And so the older they got, the looser our “reigns” were, and the more freedom we allowed them.

My point is that if the parents force the teen to wait until they’re older to date, the parent gives up this ability to influence the dating relationship, and to impose consequences for foolish or sinful behaviors.

Do the parents on this board really think that “years” are what makes a person act more mature and be better at resisting temptation?! That is so untrue!

As we get older, we usually acquire more resources than we had when were children living at home under our parents’ authority. We have more money because we hold down jobs. We have less supervision and our time is our own (other than when we are at work). We have our own car and our own living quarters. And all these resources give us the “freedom” to sin whenever we like, and no one will be there to ground us, or hold back our allowance, or take away our cell phone, or put a lock on our steering wheel, or even send us out into the country to stay at Grandma and Grandpa’s farm in the middle of nowhere!

What makes a person develop maturity and wisdom is training and guidance from parents and other authority figures (priests and pastors, teachers, coaches, club leaders, scout masters, peer leaders, etc.), and having the opportunity to try out the skills that our authority figures have taught us. Each time that a child succeeds in using a skill, he/she gains the trust of the authority figures, and earn the privilege of learning and practicing more skills.

Of course all children and teenagers mess up, and forget to use a skill that they have been taught. E.g., a lot of teenagers forget to call home and let their parents know where they are. (Even adults forget to call their spouses and let them know where they are.) IMO, the consequences for an infraction like this should be relatively light; e.g., a few nights of staying home and doing chores.

But the teenager shouldn’t be grounded for life because they forget, and even more importantly, the teenager should be allowed the chance to demonstrate to their parents that they are capable of remembering to call home. They should not be kept at home forever because the parents are convinced that the teenager will never remember to call home because they will be too busy wrecking their lives by doing something dangerous, illegal, and sinful. That’s a terrible way to parent–to never allow a child to try something new or potentially dangerous because the parents can’t deal with a mistake.

 

[dshix]

My whole point in all of my posts in this thread is to point out that when people date young ,while they’re still home, the PARENTS hold all the cards and that if a teen dates young, the parents are there to help them “avoid near occasions of sin” and fight against all hell if necessary to save the teen’s body and soul from death.

One wrong move, one little peep out the teenager, one sassy LOOK from the teen, and the parents can pull the plug on the dating thing and everything else the teenager does. They hold all the money, the car keys, the house keys, EVERYTHING. They can make a parental decision to pull up stakes and move away from a neighborhood, a town, or even a state in order to get a teenager away from evil influences (e.g., a boyfriend or girlfriend) and give the teen and the family a fresh start.

So… you don’t think it’s a good idea to teach teens about good behavior in relationships BEFORE they enter said relationships, but after you’ve had your chance to “get back” at them for bad behavior?

Explain to me how exactly it is intelligent, responsible, and charitable to drop your teens in dating relationships before they are ready, and then AFTER they make mistakes correct them? This will breed nothing but contempt and hate, and will lead the teens to find ways to get together without your present; that’s where the really bad things happen.

I personally think an excellent consequence for a teen that has crossed a line is for the parents to go everywhere with the teen, and even sleep on a cot in the teen’s bedroom for a week or so. I think most teenagers would rather be flogged than have their parents go along with them everywhere for a week.

Not necessary if you taught them not to make the mistakes in the first place. You enjoyed tormenting your kids, didn’t you? You seem to relish giving this advice.

There were other rules, too, and our daughter and her boyfriend obeyed all of our rules and respected us. Oh, I’m not stupid. I’m sure they did a little too much “deep” kissing. But they respected the rules that we, the parents, set for them. And so the older they got, the looser our “reigns” were, and the more freedom we allowed them.

So… you don’t care if they do the “little” sins, so long as they don’t do the “big” sin? Am I reading into this correctly?

I agree that the reins need to be gradually loosened, but when you loosen them too soon or when your kids aren’t ready, you are inviting dangerous things in.

My point is that if the parents force the teen to wait until they’re older to date, the parent gives up this ability to influence the dating relationship, and to impose consequences for foolish or sinful behaviors.

Non-sequitur. Parents are perfectly capable of influencing dating relationships long before they ever happen.

Do the parents on this board really think that “years” are what makes a person act more mature and be better at resisting temptation?! That is so untrue!

As we get older, we usually acquire more resources than we had when were children living at home under our parents’ authority. We have more money because we hold down jobs. We have less supervision and our time is our own (other than when we are at work). We have our own car and our own living quarters. And all these resources give us the “freedom” to sin whenever we like, and no one will be there to ground us, or hold back our allowance, or take away our cell phone, or put a lock on our steering wheel, or even send us out into the country to stay at Grandma and Grandpa’s farm in the middle of nowhere!

What makes a person develop maturity and wisdom is training and guidance from parents and other authority figures (priests and pastors, teachers, coaches, club leaders, scout masters, peer leaders, etc.), and having the opportunity to try out the skills that our authority figures have taught us. Each time that a child succeeds in using a skill, he/she gains the trust of the authority figures, and earn the privilege of learning and practicing more skills.

I agree with these two paragraphs. However, somehow what you said here does not reflect what you have said in other posts, at all.

But the teenager shouldn’t be grounded for life because they forget, and even more importantly, the teenager should be allowed the chance to demonstrate to their parents that they are capable of remembering to call home. They should not be kept at home forever because the parents are convinced that the teenager will never remember to call home because they will be too busy wrecking their lives by doing something dangerous, illegal, and sinful. That’s a terrible way to parent–to never allow a child to try something new or potentially dangerous because the parents can’t deal with a mistake.

I never suggested that teens should not be gradually exposed to more of the components of an adult life, nor has anyone else here suggested so. I disagree with your way of implementing this exposure, and I believe that it is not safe.

 

[Cat]

I have just found and read through this thread. There seems to be a singular level of misunderstanding between different posters in the thread, and I wish to address the reason why some parents think it is perfectly all right to let their kids begin unsupervised dates at 15-16 and other parents believe their kids should be carefully watched until 18 and maybe a bit older.

The issue here is all a matter of what level to which the parent has taught the child. If the child is anything like what most children tend to be in this day and age, I would generally say that they need to be supervised and directed carefully up to an older age.

There were a few posts in the thread which struck me as particularly problematic.

Cat, your point of view seems to be entirely based on probability. “The older they get, the greater chance they will have sex, so, therefore, let them out earlier while you can still control them so that they can get some experience,” is basically what you are saying.

Forgive me for not expressing myself better.

It has nothing to do with probability. It has to do with opportunity. The “opportunity” to have sex is greater as a person grows older. When they are at home, it’s hard to find the opportunity because the parents are always around, and can find you, even when you think you are hiding well. But when you are older, you are out of the range of your parents, and they have no authority over you, and you can find plenty of opportunities to have sex.

No, I’m not saying that a teenager should be allowed to gain sexual experience. I’m saying that because of their situation–living at home under the authority of parents and dependent upon parents for their basic needs as well as for their privileges (e.g., a car to drive, and the Driver’s Ed training to be able to acquire a drivers’ license) , too young to buy alcohol–teenagers have less opportunity to have sex than when they are living on their own in their own place away from any “authority figures” other than a landlord and the police, of legal age to buy alcohol, and possessing the money (by earning at their job) to spend on the taking people out on dates and bringing those dates back to their “place.”

When the teen lives at home, the parents can wield their influence and exercise their authority,and make life quite miserable for the teen when necessary. Once a person moves out of the house, the parents no longer have any control.

So a wise parent will “train” their child/teen to treat the opposite sex well by allowing them to “date.” Now of course that “date” might mean an evening with the church youth group at the annual church fun fair. A “date” for teenagers doesn’t mean driving the car into the big city, having dinner at a dark little Italian restaurant, drinking wine, and then going back to a private “place” somewhere for “conversation.”

Let’s use a different example other than sex. Let’s use money as the example. A parent would never dream of making a child wait until they are a full-fledged adult before teaching them all about money and training them to use it wisely. Most parents start their little ones with some kind of allowance, or they allow the child to earn spending money by doing chores around the house. As the child gets older, the parents insist that the child/teen find a part-time job. And then as the child gets still older, most parents work with the child to make sure that there is some kind of “life-plan” post high school, either the military, a job, a trade school, a college, a religious calling, or some other plan that will assure that the new adult is able to have their needs met.

Many parents mess this all up. Many parents–and mine were like this–just hand over money whenever the teen needs it, and there is no “cause and effect” communicated to the child. Many kids grow up not making the connection that “I get money when I earn it doing a useful job.” So they just expect money for nothing. And when they get it, they spend it wildly on silly things, and then have nothing left for food, rent, or any other necessities.

Or some parents don’t give the child any money at all, and so the adult goes into life totally unprepared to make a spending plan for the money they earn in a job.

My point is that parents need to train children to be adults, and that includes training in how to relate to members of the opposite sex, and that means “dating.” The form of the date is up to the parents, and I think it’s perfectly OK for parents to insist that younger teens “date” in groups, or with a family member present (e.g., at a church event or a family activity such as watching movie in the family’s living room with the entire family present). And I think that as the young teen demonstrates competence with the “group dating” and shows respect for the parents and for God and His Church, then the teenager should be granted more freedom in their dating, including the privilege of un-supervised dating.

 

[Cat]

Whoa!

You seriously think there is no way for teens is practice chastity? You think life is just an eternal spinning fortune wheel, and if you are “lucky” you’ll be chaste?

A person can CERTAINLY have sexual self-control and have a chaste mindset LONG before they begin dating, and that is determined by how they are raised. Teens can certainly control themselves just as well as adults, if they are raised to do so.

Again, forgive my lack of clarity. Of course I believe that teens can and SHOULD have a chaste mindset and strive for sexual purity and keep their virginity for the one that they eventually marry.

What I was telling the young person in my post is that a person will never get to a place in their life where they will have no sexual desires or urges (unless they are ill). I hope you don’t mind if I’m a little graphic here–teenaged boys get erections very easily. My husband tells me that he used to get aroused when his GRANDMA’s bra strap showed. A lot of teenaged boys get aroused every time a girl walks by, or even if they just think about girls! There’s nothing wrong or sinful about this. It’s the way God made boys. He wants young men to seek and find a wife so that the two of them can bring children into this world.

The young person that I was responding in my post seemed (IMO, anyway) to think that all this sexual arousal would go away when he got older. Well, my husband assures me that even though he doesn’t get aroused quite as quickly and easily as he did when he was a teenager, he still has “stirrings” when he sees pretty women.

There’s no such thin as growing out of a interest in sex. And the way someone develops sexual continence is to face down the desires and resist them rather than trying to avoid ALL situations that lead to those desires. In fact, if men want to avoid ALL situations that lead them to think about sex and experience desire, then they would have to seal themselves into one of those sensory-deprivation suits.

 

[Cat]

Nope. 16 year olds in this day and age generally don’t have the maturity to get jobs on work. They are too busy making out.

I’m not kidding; this is what I see in public places. I haven’t been served in a restaurant by a 16 year old in… a very long time.

Where do you live, anyway?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Wow, I don’t think you could have been more condescending here. How rude it is to extrapolate your extraordinary life onto everyone else’s, and judge us because our kids messed up royally. Excuse me, Queen of Life and Parenting! I’ll just crawl off into a corner here and accept that my son was a loser because he fell head over heels with a girl who treated him to all sorts of attractive attention!

:nope::tsktsk:

I’m so glad for your daughter’s boyfriend, what a great experience that must be. We tried to do everything we could to encourage a relationship like that but I guess according to you, we’re losers and our son is a loser because he fell for a girl who wasn’t like your daughter. Goodie for everyone in your life. Yay for you.

:clapping:

That’s the thing - I can see your point of view, but instead of giving parents like me the benefit of the doubt, we’re now losers and our kids are losers and are under our thumb and we don’t have any confidence in them.

Everyone here is trying to do the very best for their children that they know now. You might want to keep that mind from now on.

Hi, didja miss this post?

 

[PatriceA]

After pages of comments, I really think it comes down to knowing your child and what they are capable of handling at what age. Some kids are just not ready to date at even the age of 16 let alone the age of 18. Some kids can handle doing things in a group setting at the age of 12 or 13. I had a wonderful, wonderful relationship in high school my junior and senior year. I didn’t marry the guy, but he certainly showed me what I would later seek in a future spouse and found in my husband years later. I wouldn’t trade that experience, and eventual breakup/heartbreak for anything. I learned so much about myself, in what I wanted in a relationship and I feel very blessed for having had that young man in my life for those two years.

My daughter had a “boyfriend” last year. They were on the swim team together and most of time they spent together was during swim meets or hanging out at swim team activities away from the pool. He broke up with her, she was crushed for about a week. Now, she doesn’t seem to have much interest in boys, it worked its way out of her system for the time being. She finds it quite silly the way the girls her age (8th grade) just HAVE to have a boyfriend. I don’t know how she will feel in a year or so, and we’ll reevaluate the rules of dating then. But there are no hard and fast rules at this point because she handles herself well with her peers and relationships. If she seems to be keeping the same responsibility and maturity, I don’t see a need to tell her she can’t date until much older. If she was acting out and was irresponsible, our thinking about her dating would be much different.

 

[Cat]

Wow, I don’t think you could have been more condescending here. How rude it is to extrapolate your extraordinary life onto everyone else’s, and judge us because our kids messed up royally. Excuse me, Queen of Life and Parenting! I’ll just crawl off into a corner here and accept that my son was a loser because he fell head over heels with a girl who treated him to all sorts of attractive attention!

:nope::tsktsk:

I’m so glad for your daughter’s boyfriend, what a great experience that must be. We tried to do everything we could to encourage a relationship like that but I guess according to you, we’re losers and our son is a loser because he fell for a girl who wasn’t like your daughter. Goodie for everyone in your life. Yay for you.

:clapping:

That’s the thing - I can see your point of view, but instead of giving parents like me the benefit of the doubt, we’re now losers and our kids are losers and are under our thumb and we don’t have any confidence in them.

Everyone here is trying to do the very best for their children that they know now. You might want to keep that mind from now on.

Again, forgive me for lack of clarity. If we were talking in person, I don’t think you would have gotten this impression of me. I am known by many for my reasonableness.

In other threads in other posts here on CAF, I have stated many times that wonderful parents can do a great job of raising their children, only to have the child go down the wrong path. It is absolutely devastating and heartbreaking for the parent. I’ve seen this happen many times.

It’s even worse when others insist that the parents must have done something wrong in their child rearing. No, they’ve done nothing wrong and everything right. But children grow up to be adults with free will, and sin is very very powerful.

TheRealJuliane, what happened with your son was NOT your fault. Your son, through his own free will, made bad choices. You are not to blame. Hopefully in the future, your son will come to his senses mainly through your persistent prayers and for the sake of his loving mother who did a good job raising him.

What I was trying to say in my post is that parents need to have some confidence in their training, and in their children, and not assume that if the child is granted some freedom, that the child will mess up his/her life.

Of course, some children do mess up their lives when the parents grant them a little freedom and as I said, this is heartbreaking. But many children make good decisions, and I think parents should assume the best of their children unless there is good reason to expect the worst.

The only reason I used my daughter as an example was to demonstrate that my opinions have a basis in reality. I was not using my daughter to brag or to torment those who have not had good experiences with their children.

And I am not claiming to the Queen of Life and Parenting. The OP and others on this thread are seeking advice and opinions about early dating, and I am offering my advice and opinions for what they are worth, and I am trying to offer various arguments and examples to give support to my advice and opinions. I hope that some people on this thread are helped by my advice and opinions.

I see no reason to call me names or ridicule me or heap sarcastic comments upon me because I am participating in an open forum and offering my experiences for others to consider.

There are those on this forum that I utterly disagree with, but I am not calling them names or ridiculing them for their approach to child rearing. I respect the choices of other parents, although I must say that I have have many years of experience with parenting, and have seen many “authoritarian” parents lose their children’s respect as soon as the children got old enough to leave the nest. I hope that this doesn’t happen with these posters. It’s possible that the different time in history will produce different outcomes; parenting techniques that produced negative results when I was younger might produce positive results in 2013 due to the current culture in the U.S. and the world.

 

[Kamaduck]

It is not immature to have no interest in romantic relationships…whoever gave you that idea? Goodness heavens, some of the most mature people I know did not date in high school! Some did not marry until late in life, but they have married well. I’m sure others do not marry at all. That is not only OK, it leaves you entirely free to give yourself to the Lord.

It is OK for your parents to encourage you to do the things that are popular among young people your age, because they might naturally want to be certain that neither they nor false fears are holding you back. If you just don’t want to do it, though, that is not in any way immature or disordered. Those who do are not disordered, either, but as St. Paul said of the married, “such people will experience affliction in their earthly life, and I would like to spare you that.” 1 Cor. 7:28b So if you do not want to date, count yourself as having been spared temptation. Otherwise, unless you have uncharitable sentiments about those who do date, do not worry about it.

Sorry, I was unclear. I don’t think being disinterested in the opposite sex is immature.

Melodramatically agonizing over whether you should approach the young man you have a crush on and eventually deciding that relationships are far too complex for mere mortals, and insisting for several hours that the best way to avoid utter ruin in life is to ignore everyone else and spend your life building an enormous spaceship… Yes, that strikes me as immature.

Ideally, I would like to build my spaceship with another person. Unfortunately, the best and brightest potential spaceship-building partners I run into are the very people I end up having crushes on. It would be nice if I could avoid running away from them long enough to say hello. :banghead:

Bottom line- I am a confused teenager, just like all the other members of my age group. I don’t know how to deal with people yet. However, I think dating (well, in my case simply not going out of my way to avoid conversations with people I like ) might be a good way of figuring it out, at least a little.

My point in telling you all this is that I think some teens would benefit from dating. Not because they’re necessarily mature yet, but because they could use a bit of practice relating to and dealing with people who interest them. I know I probably could, and that’s why my parents not only don’t restrict me, they encourage me to go to events and spend time with young men. It’s good for me.

I don’t think everybody’s that way, though, so I still think it depends on the kid.

 

[EasterJoy]

My whole point in all of my posts in this thread is to point out that when people date young ,while they’re still home, the PARENTS hold all the cards and that if a teen dates young, the parents are there to help them “avoid near occasions of sin” and fight against all hell if necessary to save the teen’s body and soul from death.

One wrong move, one little peep out the teenager, one sassy LOOK from the teen, and the parents can pull the plug on the dating thing and everything else the teenager does. They hold all the money, the car keys, the house keys, EVERYTHING. They can make a parental decision to pull up stakes and move away from a neighborhood, a town, or even a state in order to get a teenager away from evil influences (e.g., a boyfriend or girlfriend) and give the teen and the family a fresh start.

I personally think an excellent consequence for a teen that has crossed a line is for the parents to go everywhere with the teen, and even sleep on a cot in the teen’s bedroom for a week or so. I think most teenagers would rather be flogged than have their parents go along with them everywhere for a week.

And I think that parents should put limits on dating relationships, and as long as the teenager is living at home, with the parents, the parents can do just that. We did. For a long time, our 14-year old and her 16-year old boyfriend were required to date in groups, and not allowed to be out “alone.” They had a very early curfew, and the boy had to come into the house and talk to us before leaving with our daughter. They had to go to church. There were other rules, too, and our daughter and her boyfriend obeyed all of our rules and respected us. Oh, I’m not stupid. I’m sure they did a little too much “deep” kissing. But they respected the rules that we, the parents, set for them. And so the older they got, the looser our “reigns” were, and the more freedom we allowed them.

My point is that if the parents force the teen to wait until they’re older to date, the parent gives up this ability to influence the dating relationship, and to impose consequences for foolish or sinful behaviors.

Do the parents on this board really think that “years” are what makes a person act more mature and be better at resisting temptation?! That is so untrue! …

I don’t know how this conversation went from expecting teens to keep themselves in situations where they don’t get private time alone with their 16 year old girlfriend to grounding them if they don’t remember to call home. I certainly have no desire to hold my sons’ romantic life hostage if they give me sassy LOOKS. We will not be selling our house because one of them made a stupid choice of girlfriends. That might be a new start, but it would not be a “fresh” one. It would be sour from the start, and that’s before even considering how siblings are going to feel about changing schools because Mom and Dad don’t like Big Brother’s tastes when it comes to young women. Let’s not even go there, then.

No, I’m suggesting accepting all of their friends, even the ill-advised ones, and instead concentrate on expected behaviors and boundaries. For instance, I don’t consider it “dating” when the couple isn’t driving places alone together. You can have a girlfriend before you’re allowed to date. You just aren’t allowed to get any time alone with her without breaking faith. I mean that even if his girlfriend dresses as if she ought to have a price tag hanging off of her hem, he is expected to treat her with the same respect and precautions as if she were my own daughter, and a future consecrated religious in the bargain. Say that she has no dignity, and he’ll defend her. Say that she deserves to be treated with respect no matter how she dresses, and maybe he’ll see that she ought to have so much respect for herself, too.

Besides, a young lady I do not happen to like may still live to see herself the mother of my grandchildren. It is a war of attrition, and time is not on the side of the parent!

Looking back to my teen years, however, high expectations did not hurt, not since they were paired with high regard instead of low regard. My parents did not say that only trampy girls got into compromising situations. They made it known that anyone can fall to sin, and nobody should be so proud as to think they can’t fall. That is a very vital difference in emphasis, IMHO.

 

[Cat]

So… you don’t think it’s a good idea to teach teens about good behavior in relationships BEFORE they enter said relationships, but after you’ve had your chance to “get back” at them for bad behavior?

Explain to me how exactly it is intelligent, responsible, and charitable to drop your teens in dating relationships before they are ready, and then AFTER they make mistakes correct them? This will breed nothing but contempt and hate, and will lead the teens to find ways to get together without your present; that’s where the really bad things happen.

Please please forgive me if this is what has been coming across in my posts!

Absolutely, yes, yes YES, a parents should definitely teach teens about good behavior in relationships BEFORE they enter said relationships! YES!

This can best be accomplished when Dad and Mom treat each other with respect and love on a daily basis.

It is also accomplished by exposing the children to loving relationships in real life and in fiction; e.g., various movies and television shows (especially the old shows) show a child what a loving, committed relationship should look like, and how men and women should behave around each other.

And of course, the teaching should happen in spoken word. Parents need to educate children from the beginning, in an age-appropriate way, about sex and its God-created purpose.

Not necessary if you taught them not to make the mistakes in the first place. You enjoyed tormenting your kids, didn’t you? You seem to relish giving this advice.

This is unfair of you. Of course I didn’t enjoy tormenting my children. If my children were to meet you and hear you say this, they would rise up against you and tell you to be quiet and stop saying mean things about their mother.

I will stop trying to be “creative” and just say it straight: Parents should impose consequences on their teenaged children when rules are broken, and the most effective consequences are “negative” ones for the teens e;g. being grounded, or having the cell phone taken away for a time.

So… you don’t care if they do the “little” sins, so long as they don’t do the “big” sin? Am I reading into this correctly?

You are reading this incorrectly. Little sins lead to big sins. I personally don’t consider kissing or even “deep” kissing to be a sin. If you do, then that’s your opinion, and I respect it. But it was not the way we raised our daughters, and I ask that you respect my opinion, even if you disagree with it.

I agree that the reins need to be gradually loosened, but when you loosen them too soon or when your kids aren’t ready, you are inviting dangerous things in.

I absolutely agree with this. I think that many parents expose their children to adult things much too soon.

Non-sequitur. Parents are perfectly capable of influencing dating relationships long before they ever happen.

Absolutely agree. What’s more, I think that parents SHOULD influence the dating relationships before they ever happen. One of the best ways to do this is to pray, while the children are babies, for the men or women that they will one day date and eventually marry.

I agree with these two paragraphs. However, somehow what you said here does not reflect what you have said in other posts, at all.

Again, forgive any inconsistencies. I will blame my own poor ability at communicating in writing, and try to do better. It’s difficult to hold a conversation “in chunks” over several days. It would be better if all of us were facing each other in person.

I never suggested that teens should not be gradually exposed to more of the components of an adult life, nor has anyone else here suggested so. I disagree with your way of implementing this exposure, and I believe that it is not safe.

And I respect your opinion. Thankfully it worked for my two daughters. The same approach may very well lead to disaster in other families. I agree with the poster above who says that every parents needs to tailor their parenting decisions to their own children. What works for one child/parent may not work at all for another child/parent.

 

[dshix]

Hi Cat,

It appears that I have misunderstood most of your posts quite egregiously, and I apologize. I think we both have very different forms of communication, and that has made it rather difficult for us to understand each other. However, I now understand and agree with the majority of what you are saying.

Different types of parenting are needed for every situation, every child, and every family, depending on circumstances. There are definitely standards which can be applied to all, but there are also little details which work better for some than others. I accept our differences as… differences, and it appears that that’s JUST FINE, seeing as you and I seemed to turn out all right, as did your children.

Generally I have found that it is better to err on the side of less privileges, less freedom for teens, and generally that succeeds in producing a mature, level-headed young adult. However, I definitely agree that there are differing opinions on that, and other methods are surely viable.

Once more, I apologize if I’ve seemed sarcastic or blunt (which I am very, very liable to do) and hope that we have more success communicating in the future!

-dshix

 

[Cat]

Hi Cat,

It appears that I have misunderstood most of your posts quite egregiously, and I apologize. I think we both have very different forms of communication, and that has made it rather difficult for us to understand each other. However, I now understand and agree with the majority of what you are saying.

Different types of parenting are needed for every situation, every child, and every family, depending on circumstances. There are definitely standards which can be applied to all, but there are also little details which work better for some than others. I accept our differences as… differences, and it appears that that’s JUST FINE, seeing as you and I seemed to turn out all right, as did your children.

Generally I have found that it is better to err on the side of less privileges, less freedom for teens, and generally that succeeds in producing a mature, level-headed young adult. However, I definitely agree that there are differing opinions on that, and other methods are surely viable.

Once more, I apologize if I’ve seemed sarcastic or blunt (which I am very, very liable to do) and hope that we have more success communicating in the future!

-dshix

Thank you for this very kind post. I do tend to agree with you about “less privileges” is usually better, but I think that we all vary in our opinions of what a “privilege” is.’

E.g., my children grew up as figure skaters.

My daughter’s boyfriend’s father once jokingly (back when she was a teenager), called her a “princess” and told her “it must be nice to have your parents pay for you to skate around in a pretty little dress.”

Oh, boy. My daughter did not let that pass. She told him, “Yes, it’s such fun for us princesses getting up at four in the morning, pulling on several layers of tights, and driving in the dark to a freezing ice rink, where I strap on heavy boots with sharp blades, and spend the next two hours speeding around, hurling myself into the air, and returning to the earth, most of the time landing on my butt or worse, all the while having a coach yell at me to “try it again.” And then I get to go to school, and after school, I get to go to my part-time job to earn money, since my parents don’t have that much extra money after paying for my “princess” skating.”

That was not all of what she told him, but you get the idea. To us, skating was not a “privilege.” It was a training ground in LIFE for our daughters, and both our daughters are still skating even though they are now 30 and 27. They both thank us often for letting them skate.

But to other parents, skating and other sports and extracurriculars are privileges.

It’s different in every family.

 

[dshix]

Thank you for this very kind post. I do tend to agree with you about “less privileges” is usually better, but I think that we all vary in our opinions of what a “privilege” is.’

E.g., my children grew up as figure skaters.

My daughter’s boyfriend’s father once jokingly (back when she was a teenager), called her a “princess” and told her “it must be nice to have your parents pay for you to skate around in a pretty little dress.”

Oh, boy. My daughter did not let that pass. She told him, “Yes, it’s such fun for us princesses getting up at four in the morning, pulling on several layers of tights, and driving in the dark to a freezing ice rink, where I strap on heavy boots with sharp blades, and spend the next two hours speeding around, hurling myself into the air, and returning to the earth, most of the time landing on my butt or worse, all the while having a coach yell at me to “try it again.” And then I get to go to school, and after school, I get to go to my part-time job to earn money, since my parents don’t have that much extra money after paying for my “princess” skating.”

That was not all of what she told him, but you get the idea. To us, skating was not a “privilege.” It was a training ground in LIFE for our daughters, and both our daughters are still skating even though they are now 30 and 27. They both thank us often for letting them skate.

But to other parents, skating and other sports and extracurriculars are privileges.

It’s different in every family.

Heh, we do indeed have different standards in parenting. If I had spoken like that to an adult, my parents would have put a buzz in my ear!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Again, forgive me for lack of clarity. If we were talking in person, I don’t think you would have gotten this impression of me. I am known by many for my reasonableness.

In other threads in other posts here on CAF, I have stated many times that wonderful parents can do a great job of raising their children, only to have the child go down the wrong path. It is absolutely devastating and heartbreaking for the parent. I’ve seen this happen many times.

It’s even worse when others insist that the parents must have done something wrong in their child rearing. No, they’ve done nothing wrong and everything right. But children grow up to be adults with free will, and sin is very very powerful.

TheRealJuliane, what happened with your son was NOT your fault. Your son, through his own free will, made bad choices. You are not to blame. Hopefully in the future, your son will come to his senses mainly through your persistent prayers and for the sake of his loving mother who did a good job raising him.

What I was trying to say in my post is that parents need to have some confidence in their training, and in their children, and not assume that if the child is granted some freedom, that the child will mess up his/her life.

Of course, some children do mess up their lives when the parents grant them a little freedom and as I said, this is heartbreaking. But many children make good decisions, and I think parents should assume the best of their children unless there is good reason to expect the worst.

The only reason I used my daughter as an example was to demonstrate that my opinions have a basis in reality. I was not using my daughter to brag or to torment those who have not had good experiences with their children.

And I am not claiming to the Queen of Life and Parenting. The OP and others on this thread are seeking advice and opinions about early dating, and I am offering my advice and opinions for what they are worth, and I am trying to offer various arguments and examples to give support to my advice and opinions. I hope that some people on this thread are helped by my advice and opinions.

I see no reason to call me names or ridicule me or heap sarcastic comments upon me because I am participating in an open forum and offering my experiences for others to consider.

There are those on this forum that I utterly disagree with, but I am not calling them names or ridiculing them for their approach to child rearing. I respect the choices of other parents, although I must say that I have have many years of experience with parenting, and have seen many “authoritarian” parents lose their children’s respect as soon as the children got old enough to leave the nest. I hope that this doesn’t happen with these posters. It’s possible that the different time in history will produce different outcomes; parenting techniques that produced negative results when I was younger might produce positive results in 2013 due to the current culture in the U.S. and the world.

Posting on a forum is like email. There is no emotional tone, there is no body language, no facial expression. And everything written is open to the interpretation of the person reading.

Your previous post came across as really smug to me. I took offense. I know you meant no offense, but I took it - my choice. Just the way you were flinging out the term “loser” got my dander up and got it up good. I know my son used his own free will, in spite of everything we’d tried to tell him. He learned the lesson but at tremendous personal cost. And if I had it to do over again, I’d do the same, and try to keep him from terrible consequences that he had no concept of. Even the consequences he reaped were nothing compared to what might have happened.

Again, I can see your point, and it worked for your family. There are at least 2 viewpoints on this thread, and each family has to decide for themselves what works, and what doesn’t, for them, and maybe for each child in that family (I know they are all a bit different). So why not stop trying to convince everyone that your way is the right way or the only way?

 

[Sarabande]

I didn’t read through the entire thread, but these are my thoughts on dating. I do think parents should gauge things based on each individual child. Some children are very mature, insightful and trustworthy enough to have some loosening of the reigns. Others, not so much. I personally would not allow dating until about 16 or 17. Before that, I would be ok with co-ed parties, dances, etc., but I would make absolutely sure that they are chaperoned… well. At least in my own experience growing up, there were many parties which were “chaperoned” by supposedly trustworthy and responsible parents, but they really weren’t and many things went on that should not have.

When a child does start to date, rules should be set, such as curfews, expectations with school and extracurricular activities, etc.

BUT before all of this occurs, I think parents should always have an open dialogue with their children, discussing chastity, sex (ie. oral sex IS sex, so it’s NOT ok to do. So many of my Catholic classmates thought that they were ok doing this as long as they didn’t have vaginal intercourse.), respect for self and for others, the importance of developing your own character, spiritual life and intellect before getting yourself caught up in a serious relationship, etc.

I know that every person’s experience is different, but what I saw and heard from my peers while a teen and pre-teen turned me off to early dating. Almost EVERY SINGLE CLASSMATE I knew who began dating at an early age (11/12/13/14) also began to engage in sexual activity either around that age or by the time they were teenagers. I saw so many of my female classmates become emotionally hurt by boys who used them and dropped them. They lost respect for themselves and were just completely boy crazy. I liked boys, but I wasn’t boy crazy and I actually thought that there had to have been something wrong with me for a while. I remember going to my father (I almost always went to my dad for advice like this), crying, thinking that I had to be strange because I was more interested in living a life, studying, focusing on my activities, without being boy-crazy. I’m sure that made him very relieved and happy that his daughter was like this. haha!

I was allowed to start dating in groups when I was 16, but I actually had no real desire to date. To me, it seemed to be a waste of time to get myself all romantic and serious over a boy when I knew I’d be going to college and starting to get to know myself better and to experience life without any serious attachments. My thought at the time was, “Why would I want to pigeon-hole myself to a boy at this point in my life?” I had other ambitions at the time and my first priority was to get a college degree because I knew that you couldn’t survive financially without one. So I really didn’t begin to go on dates until my senior year of high school. Don’t get me wrong, I was as much as an old-fashioned romantic as anyone could be as a girl. I mean, I memorized “Romeo and Juliet” at 14 and fantasized about being Juliet, but I was also realistic and took what was happening around me seriously.

Now that I’m in my 30s, I realize that my ideas on dating and my self-respect and strength as a person came from my parents’ example and teaching. It was a mix of being strict and setting limits and boundaries (my mother), constantly talking with me (both parents), gentle guidance and logical thought (my father), teaching me the importance of self-respect and development of self in all aspects of life, and a deep love and respect of God… which guided me on my decisions when it came to dating and what was appropriate for dating, as well as other things in life. I know that every person is different and have their own journeys which helped them come to where they are today. My parents example as well as my own worked for my younger sister, but as great as my parents guided my brother, he made more mistakes in this realm and they were mistakes that probably had to be made for him to learn and allow it to seep in. We are no better than him as we have our own failings, but it shows how every child is different and all you can do as a parent is do the best you can, guiding them and praying for them.

My children are too young right now to see what kind of people they will be when they get to this age. That part I’m not looking forward to. My illogical side wants to say that they won’t be allowed to date until they are 30. haha!

 

[dshix]

I didn’t read through the entire thread, but these are my thoughts on dating…

-snip-

 

[aspirant]

So {Joshua Harris} has “ministry” now?!

He’s the pastor of Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg, Maryland. This church founded Sovereign Grace Ministries, which is a network of churches, effectively its own denomination. SGM has been having a lot of problems in recent years.

His books are full of holes. I can’t believe that Evangelical Protestants fall for them.

I agree. Honestly, I was also stunned, when I finally got around to reading one, how little scripture influenced the book.

 

[Cat]

Posting on a forum is like email. There is no emotional tone, there is no body language, no facial expression. And everything written is open to the interpretation of the person reading.

Your previous post came across as really smug to me. I took offense. I know you meant no offense, but I took it - my choice. Just the way you were flinging out the term “loser” got my dander up and got it up good. I know my son used his own free will, in spite of everything we’d tried to tell him. He learned the lesson but at tremendous personal cost. And if I had it to do over again, I’d do the same, and try to keep him from terrible consequences that he had no concept of. Even the consequences he reaped were nothing compared to what might have happened.

Again, I can see your point, and it worked for your family. There are at least 2 viewpoints on this thread, and each family has to decide for themselves what works, and what doesn’t, for them, and maybe for each child in that family (I know they are all a bit different). ** So why not stop trying to convince everyone that your way is the right way or the only way?**

Boldfaced mine, above. But…that’s what this forum is all about, not just this thread, but many other threads!

The OP asks for advice and opinions, and I give mine and try to put forth arguments in favor of my advice and opinions. That’s “discussion.”

Everyone else on this forum, including you, is also trying to convince everyone that their way is the best way. I never said (and neither have most others on this thread) that my way is the ONLY way. I personally think it’s the best way, but so does everyone else who has posted. That’s fine, as long as we are nice to each other and respect each other, which, for the most part, I do.

That’s what a “discussion” is all about–telling people YOUR opinion, and trying to convince them that it has validity and is worth trying.

I appreciate your telling me that my advice was hurtful to you because of the way I worded it, and I regret causing you pain (and yes, it was unintentional).

But I do plan to continue posting my personal opinion when someone asks, and I will try to support my personal opinion and defend it against those who object. That’s what a forum is. If I’m not supposed to post my opinion and try to persuade others of its worth, then why bother to get involved with a discussion forum at all?

As for why I am so vested in this topic, it’s one that means a lot to me personally because my husband and I started dating young, and so did my daughter, and it has worked out for both of us. For me, it’s personal, but in a good way. Also, I think that teachers like Josh Harris have done a great deal of harm by promoting their “courtship model” of dating as “the BIBLICAL method of dating,” and I would like to see this man and his teachings condemned by thinking Christians.