Thoughts on what age dating should start?

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If the mall with the not-so-great reputation is right on the commuter train line, which is available to teens for nothing or next to it, you get teens from a lot of different neighborhoods.

Our kids have access to a gym with indoor sport courts, and they get to hang out there without parental supervision, so that’s usually what they want to do when they have time on their hands, especially if the weather is bad. Maybe it is just a difference in temperament, or its that they always have their brother to hang out with. 🤷
Unfortunately not every family can afford gym memberships. Mine couldn’t.
 
Unfortunately not every family can afford gym memberships. Mine couldn’t.
True. Still, if a teen can’t even afford to go down to open gym at the community center (which is what we did before the gym membership), how much can the teen afford to do at a mall? And if the teen is not leaving any money at the mall, how are the owners of the businesses there supposed to feel about parents who dump their teens off to loiter with no ability or intention to spend anything? They do have a right to have their interests considered, don’t they?
 
I have a question for everyone who has said they do not want their teens dating until they are older. Since it is going to be impossible to stop your teens from developing crushes etc, how do you want your teen to handle such a situation? We know you do not want them dating this person, so what do you want them to do to handle this situation?
Before I could date, I’d spend time with the fellow I liked at group events, like dances and sporting events and at school. It was a good thing I was not allowed to date, because the fellow I was interested in was older than I was, and I wasn’t mature enough to exert my own authority in a relationship. There were other fellows that asked me out that I did not want to date, and it was kind of a relief to be able to “blame Dad” for having to refuse them. It isn’t such a bad thing to put that stuff off until you’re a little older. You’ll still make mistakes, but not such self-betraying mistakes, I think.

I was around a group of 14 year olds the other day, and saw some “couples” with each other. There is no way, with as many years as they have until they can marry, with the poor impulse control that they have, and with the weak ability at self-assertion, that they ought to be left alone together. No way! Some were born with enough maturity, but far more of them are losing even what impulse control they had at 12, not to be seen again for several years!
 
True. Still, if a teen can’t even afford to go down to open gym at the community center (which is what we did before the gym membership), how much can the teen afford to do at a mall? And if the teen is not leaving any money at the mall, how are the owners of the businesses there supposed to feel about parents who dump their teens off to loiter with no ability or intention to spend anything? They do have a right to have their interests considered, don’t they?
:hypno:

This is getting a little out of control…
 
I have a question for everyone who has said they do not want their teens dating until they are older. Since it is going to be impossible to stop your teens from developing crushes etc, how do you want your teen to handle such a situation? We know you do not want them dating this person, so what do you want them to do to handle this situation?
I’m really starting to think everyone on this thread is defining “dating” differently. If they mean going on dates, as many people seem to- I don’t think that’s necessary. There are other ways to enjoy someone’s company. 🙂 (Or so my friends tell me, anyway. I’m not good at enjoying people’s company. :p)

Honestly the kids at my school usually start having exclusive relationships before they’re old enough to go on dates with people. It seems kind of backwards to me, but that’s how it goes. 🤷

But yeah- even if parents think dating and exclusive relationships are both bad ideas in high school, that doesn’t mean there’s no outlet for crushes. It just means the kid can’t get as romantically entangled. It doesn’t mean they can’t get to know someone or spend time with them. 🙂
 
Umm… what?
Just seems like the poster is looking a little too much into hanging out with friends at a shopping mall.

I specially don’t like the condescending remarks about “parents who dump their teens off to loiter with no ability or intention to spend anything.”

Yeah, our family didn’t have money to spend on a gym membership. My mom was a SAHM and my dad payed for my brother’s private schools and for our trips to Brazil to see family every year.

Yeah, my best friend and I would get dropped off at the mall by my mother to spend some time together, talk, walk around, look at things, and if we had some extra change/bday money, buy a pair of earrings or a cheeseburger or something.

I don’t see this is “parents dumping their kids off to loiter.” 😦
 
I’m really starting to think everyone on this thread is defining “dating” differently. If they mean going on dates, as many people seem to- I don’t think that’s necessary. There are other ways to enjoy someone’s company. 🙂 (Or so my friends tell me, anyway. I’m not good at enjoying people’s company. :p)

Honestly the kids at my school usually start having exclusive relationships before they’re old enough to go on dates with people. It seems kind of backwards to me, but that’s how it goes. 🤷

But yeah- even if parents think dating and exclusive relationships are both bad ideas in high school, that doesn’t mean there’s no outlet for crushes. It just means the kid can’t get as romantically entangled. It doesn’t mean they can’t get to know someone or spend time with them. 🙂
Oh, yes, I understand that, I’m just really curious what people will respond. I know a negative of what they think “They should not go on dates” but not a positive such as “they should _____” So I’m just really curious to learn more about what they think. 🙂 That their kids will have crushes, at least of some sort, is inevitable, and it is very possible that their kids might develop very strong feelings for someone that are based on a solid and good friendship. If that happens, and those feelings exist, how would they want their childrren to behave? Would they want them to ignore the person they are interested in so that their feelings eventually go away? Or would they allow their teens to hang out with the person they were interested in and let their feelings and attatchment to the other grow so long as it was chaperoned and in a group setting? Or would they have some other third option?
 
Once your kids are 16 or older, you’ve lost them. Even if they are close and you love each other, realistically, you no longer have much control over them. They can drive and work, and often teens of this age figure out how to work and earn enough money to buy their own car and insurance and then they can drive.
While I agreed with many things you said (the examples of possible “dating activities”, the ability of parents to “shut down” the car if the child’s misbehaviour warrants it for two examples), I wholeheartedly disagree with the above statement.

I do not think that when our children are 16 or older we have “lost them”. They are still very much in need of parenting and guidance at 16, and, indeed, older than that. My husband and I have three teenagers, two of whom are older than your “lost” age. All three children still live at home, and my husband and I still actively parent them. Granted, our 18.5 year old has more responsibility and more freedoms than her 14.5 year old sister, but she is not capable of making all of her decisions without guidance or parental suggestions or considerations.

My husband and I, while grown adults with many years experience making decisions and taking care of ourselves, still occasionally “run things past” our own parents before making major decisions. While we certainly don’t need their approval or help in making our choices, sometimes it’s still nice to bounce ideas off other people who care for us.

This didn’t magically end once we turned 16!
I agree that parents have less “control” over their children as they get older (control is, after all, an illusion), but they certainly have much influence still, for years to come.

cj
 
Just seems like the poster is looking a little too much into hanging out with friends at a shopping mall.

I specially don’t like the condescending remarks about “parents who dump their teens off to loiter with no ability or intention to spend anything.”

Yeah, our family didn’t have money to spend on a gym membership. My mom was a SAHM and my dad payed for my brother’s private schools and for our trips to Brazil to see family every year.

Yeah, my best friend and I would get dropped off at the mall by my mother to spend some time together, talk, walk around, look at things, and if we had some extra change/bday money, buy a pair of earrings or a cheeseburger or something.

I don’t see this is “parents dumping their kids off to loiter.” 😦
You have to admit, needing to pay for a family trip to Brazil every year is a rather unusual financial situation.

If your kid is going to the mall with no money, then from the merchant’s point of view, what are they doing there? It is called loitering…and that is if they are not coming into that merchant’s shop, pointing at stuff and, as one poster put it “make fun of stuff they see in stores,” which is worse than loitering. You are telling me it is condescending to point out that this is not the most charitable way to treat the merchants doing business at that mall? Why? Why is it condescending to say that parents should consider merchants human beings that deserve consideration, particularly with regards to their livelihoods?

On top of that, did you know that 55 percent of adult shoplifters say they started shoplifting in their teens? Did you know that one survey found that 89 percent of kids say they know other kids who shoplift, and that 66 percent say they hang out with those kids? Researchers also contend that “Shoplifting is often not a premeditated crime. 73 percent of adult and 72 percent of juvenile shoplifters don’t plan to steal in advance…Shoplifters say they are caught an average of only once in every 48 times they steal. They are turned over to the police 50 percent of the time…The vast majority of shoplifters are “non-professionals” who steal, not out of criminal intent, financial need or greed but as a response to social and personal pressures in their life. The excitement generated from “getting away with it” produces a chemical reaction resulting in what shoplifters describe as an incredible “rush” or “high” feeling. Many shoplifters will tell you that this high is their “true reward,” rather than the merchandise itself. Drug addicts, who have become addicted to shoplifting, describe shoplifting as equally addicting as drugs. 57 percent of adults and 33 percent of juveniles say it is hard for them to stop shoplifting even after getting caught…”
(Source: shopliftingprevention.org/whatnaspoffers/nrc/publiceducstats.htm)

We are talking about merchandise walking out of stores at the rate of $35 million per day. When it comes to other addictive activities that are started not because of need, but because of peer pressure, activities that can ruin a child’s future, I think parents are pretty careful. Are they as careful when it comes to what pressures their teen may be facing by hanging out in groups that have with no purpose or excitement at a mall?

Again, I’m not saying that kids who go to malls are bad kids, let alone that they’re all out shoplifting, although the statistics say that more are out there stealing for thrills than their parents could possibly suspect. More to the point, though, if your kid doesn’t like athletics, then they’re going to see a gym membership as a penance, not a privilege…I get that! I’m saying that our gym membership costs about the same as our kids going to one movie with popcorn each weekend, if not a little less. If you’re spending less than that at the mall each month, you kind of have to wonder if you’re not taking advantage of the good graces of the people running the mall. They aren’t running a free after-school program for teens. Teens who have positive activities to fill their time also run less of a risk of getting into drugs, promiscuity, and other problems. So while going to a mall is just a perfectly fine thing to do with your friends when there is a reason or when it is not a frequent habit, I would be very concerned if it were truly a major part of my teen’s social life, rather than something they sometimes did on weekends.
 
You have to admit, needing to pay for a family trip to Brazil every year is a rather unusual financial situation.

If your kid is going to the mall with no money, then from the merchant’s point of view, what are they doing there? It is called loitering…and that is if they are not coming into that merchant’s shop, pointing at stuff and, as one poster put it “make fun of stuff they see in stores,” which is worse than loitering. You are telling me it is condescending to point out that this is not the most charitable way to treat the merchants doing business at that mall? Why? Why is it condescending to say that parents should consider merchants human beings that deserve consideration, particularly with regards to their livelihoods?

On top of that, did you know that 55 percent of adult shoplifters say they started shoplifting in their teens? Did you know that one survey found that 89 percent of kids say they know other kids who shoplift, and that 66 percent say they hang out with those kids? Researchers also contend that “Shoplifting is often not a premeditated crime. 73 percent of adult and 72 percent of juvenile shoplifters don’t plan to steal in advance…Shoplifters say they are caught an average of only once in every 48 times they steal. They are turned over to the police 50 percent of the time…The vast majority of shoplifters are “non-professionals” who steal, not out of criminal intent, financial need or greed but as a response to social and personal pressures in their life. The excitement generated from “getting away with it” produces a chemical reaction resulting in what shoplifters describe as an incredible “rush” or “high” feeling. Many shoplifters will tell you that this high is their “true reward,” rather than the merchandise itself. Drug addicts, who have become addicted to shoplifting, describe shoplifting as equally addicting as drugs. 57 percent of adults and 33 percent of juveniles say it is hard for them to stop shoplifting even after getting caught…”
(Source: shopliftingprevention.org/whatnaspoffers/nrc/publiceducstats.htm)

We are talking about merchandise walking out of stores at the rate of $35 million per day. When it comes to other addictive activities that are started not because of need, but because of peer pressure, activities that can ruin a child’s future, I think parents are pretty careful. Are they as careful when it comes to what pressures their teen may be facing by hanging out in groups that have with no purpose or excitement at a mall?

Again, I’m not saying that kids who go to malls are bad kids, let alone that they’re all out shoplifting, although the statistics say that more are out there stealing for thrills than their parents could possibly suspect. More to the point, though, if your kid doesn’t like athletics, then they’re going to see a gym membership as a penance, not a privilege…I get that! I’m saying that our gym membership costs about the same as our kids going to one movie with popcorn each weekend, if not a little less. If you’re spending less than that at the mall each month, you kind of have to wonder if you’re not taking advantage of the good graces of the people running the mall. They aren’t running a free after-school program for teens. Teens who have positive activities to fill their time also run less of a risk of getting into drugs, promiscuity, and other problems. So while going to a mall is just a perfectly fine thing to do with your friends when there is a reason or when it is not a frequent habit, I would be very concerned if it were truly a major part of my teen’s social life, rather than something they sometimes did on weekends.
I have to agree with this last part, it is what I was thinking as I was reading this discussion.

I had a conversation with my daughter about this topic yesterday. The mall is the place that the kids now go to to meet and “date” each other without their parents knowledge when they are not allowed to date until they are older.
 
You have to admit, needing to pay for a family trip to Brazil every year is a rather unusual financial situation.
My parents moved up here for my father’s job when I was 7 years old. My mother was devastated to leave behind her country and her entire family. Part of the compromise was that he would send my mom and my siblings and me to Brazil to see our family every summer for 2 months. A plane ticket from the US to Rio de Janeiro costs about $2,000 per person.
If your kid is going to the mall with no money, then from the merchant’s point of view, what are they doing there? It is called loitering…and that is if they are not coming into that merchant’s shop, pointing at stuff and, as one poster put it “make fun of stuff they see in stores,” which is worse than loitering. You are telling me it is condescending to point out that this is not the most charitable way to treat the merchants doing business at that mall? Why? Why is it condescending to say that parents should consider merchants human beings that deserve consideration, particularly with regards to their livelihoods?
On top of that, did you know that 55 percent of adult shoplifters say they started shoplifting in their teens? Did you know that one survey found that 89 percent of kids say they know other kids who shoplift, and that 66 percent say they hang out with those kids? Researchers also contend that “Shoplifting is often not a premeditated crime. 73 percent of adult and 72 percent of juvenile shoplifters don’t plan to steal in advance…Shoplifters say they are caught an average of only once in every 48 times they steal. They are turned over to the police 50 percent of the time…The vast majority of shoplifters are “non-professionals” who steal, not out of criminal intent, financial need or greed but as a response to social and personal pressures in their life. The excitement generated from “getting away with it” produces a chemical reaction resulting in what shoplifters describe as an incredible “rush” or “high” feeling. Many shoplifters will tell you that this high is their “true reward,” rather than the merchandise itself. Drug addicts, who have become addicted to shoplifting, describe shoplifting as equally addicting as drugs. 57 percent of adults and 33 percent of juveniles say it is hard for them to stop shoplifting even after getting caught…”
(Source: shopliftingprevention.org/whatnaspoffers/nrc/publiceducstats.htm)
We are talking about merchandise walking out of stores at the rate of $35 million per day. When it comes to other addictive activities that are started not because of need, but because of peer pressure, activities that can ruin a child’s future, I think parents are pretty careful. Are they as careful when it comes to what pressures their teen may be facing by hanging out in groups that have with no purpose or excitement at a mall?
Again, I’m not saying that kids who go to malls are bad kids, let alone that they’re all out shoplifting, although the statistics say that more are out there stealing for thrills than their parents could possibly suspect. More to the point, though, if your kid doesn’t like athletics, then they’re going to see a gym membership as a penance, not a privilege…I get that! I’m saying that our gym membership costs about the same as our kids going to one movie with popcorn each weekend, if not a little less. If you’re spending less than that at the mall each month, you kind of have to wonder if you’re not taking advantage of the good graces of the people running the mall. They aren’t running a free after-school program for teens. Teens who have positive activities to fill their time also run less of a risk of getting into drugs, promiscuity, and other problems. So while going to a mall is just a perfectly fine thing to do with your friends when there is a reason or when it is not a frequent habit, I would be very concerned if it were truly a major part of my teen’s social life, rather than something they sometimes did on weekends.
Don’t have time to read all this right now, as I am on my way out. Read the first couple of questions and am still a little taken aback that you seem so passionate about a couple of teens going to the mall with their friends. Looks like we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this being such a terrible idea. 🤷
 
I don’t think I would encourage my kids if any, to hang out in a mall.

Everybody should have better things to do and it is a handy place to circumvent rules about dating.

ICXC NIKA
 
I have just found and read through this thread. There seems to be a singular level of misunderstanding between different posters in the thread, and I wish to address the reason why some parents think it is perfectly all right to let their kids begin unsupervised dates at 15-16 and other parents believe their kids should be carefully watched until 18 and maybe a bit older.

The issue here is all a matter of what level to which the parent has taught the child. If the child is anything like what most children tend to be in this day and age, I would generally say that they need to be supervised and directed carefully up to an older age.

There were a few posts in the thread which struck me as particularly problematic.

Cat, your point of view seems to be entirely based on probability. “The older they get, the greater chance they will have sex, so, therefore, let them out earlier while you can still control them so that they can get some experience,” is basically what you are saying.

I heartily disagree with this. When a teen is younger, say, 14-15, and asks, “Can I go on a date? All my friends are going out with each other and I want to,” this opens up a conversation. You can talk to your child (yes, a teen is a CHILD) and essentially explain that dating is a road to marriage, and if he/she is not ready for marriage, then there really is no good reason to be dating. You can talk with your teen about how to channel his/her romantic impulses into forming friendships without trying to make a relationship.

The fact is that when two teens start getting emotional and romantic about each other, they really and truly wear themselves out for no reason at all. When a person falls in love, that was intended by God to lead them directly to marriage. When a couple starts at age 14, they can’t legally get married for FOUR years, and it isn’t likely they can get married until long after that.

The truth is that if you let them form strong friendships with their peers instead of the romantic relationships, then can easily and effectively turn that into a dating relationship when they get older.

Whoa!

You seriously think there is no way for teens is practice chastity? You think life is just an eternal spinning fortune wheel, and if you are “lucky” you’ll be chaste?

A person can CERTAINLY have sexual self-control and have a chaste mindset LONG before they begin dating, and that is determined by how they are raised. Teens can certainly control themselves just as well as adults, if they are raised to do so.

This is irresponsible. Your child is not an adult; letting him/her go out by himself with a person of the opposite gender IS inviting trouble. If you have raised the child so this is not a problem, good for you. If you have not had extensive talks with your child on this subject, and are not absolutely sure they are reliable, yet you let them go on exclusive, unsupervised dates, that is very irresponsible.

These are not all the posts I wished to respond to, but I will let it pass for now since I do not have more time. I will continue to respond to the thread.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. One point I would like to add, and correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to hint at this as well, is that if you’ve raised your child with understanding of why the rules exist, you aren’t going to have to worry about them sneaking behind your back. My family rule was that you could begin dating at 16. But I read a book about how dating is for marriage, and is better later in life, and told my parent’s I’d rather wait until after high school. Pretty sure this will set the new norm for my younger siblings as well-not so much out of a “rule” mindset, but simply because our family, as a whole, views dating differently now. So, enforcing your family rules shouldn’t be too hard if you’ve raised your kids to understand them, in my opinion.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with you. One point I would like to add, and correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to hint at this as well, is that if you’ve raised your child with understanding of why the rules exist, you aren’t going to have to worry about them sneaking behind your back. My family rule was that you could begin dating at 16. But I read a book about how dating is for marriage, and is better later in life, and told my parent’s I’d rather wait until after high school. Pretty sure this will set the new norm for my younger siblings as well-not so much out of a “rule” mindset, but simply because our family, as a whole, views dating differently now. So, enforcing your family rules shouldn’t be too hard if you’ve raised your kids to understand them, in my opinion.
Exactly! When you raise your kids to not think of the rules as rules, but rather as good life guidelines, then they start enforcing the rules for themselves and making their own set of standards to help them along on their way, instead of you being forced to step in and be a control freak until they are 25.

That’s what adults do, is it not? Parents have a set of guidelines, not rules, and they formulate these positive guidelines into negative rules (positive and negative are used in the sense of proactivity or avoidance) to make it easier for their kids to understand. However, sooner or later those kids will have to become adults themselves and set their own guidelines, so the sooner you start trying to encourage them to do this, the less likely they will make some kind of horrible mistake they regret later.

It seems that you and I have a very similar view on this. 🙂
 
I wholeheartedly agree with you. One point I would like to add, and correct me if I’m wrong but you seem to hint at this as well, is that** if you’ve raised your child with understanding of why the rules exist, you aren’t going to have to worry about them sneaking behind your back**. My family rule was that you could begin dating at 16. But I read a book about how dating is for marriage, and is better later in life, and told my parent’s I’d rather wait until after high school. Pretty sure this will set the new norm for my younger siblings as well-not so much out of a “rule” mindset, but simply because our family, as a whole, views dating differently now. So, enforcing your family rules shouldn’t be too hard if you’ve raised your kids to understand them, in my opinion.
Oh, gosh, I wish it were this easy…
 
Regarding all the conversation about teens hanging out at a mall, it seems to me that one of the problems we have, culturally, is a dearth of good places for teenagers (and even adults) to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money. I think this may also be a contributing factor to problems like loitering (e.g. hanging around in stores without buying anything) and shoplifting.
 
Regarding all the conversation about teens hanging out at a mall, it seems to me that one of the problems we have, culturally, is a dearth of good places for teenagers (and even adults) to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money. I think this may also be a contributing factor to problems like loitering (e.g. hanging around in stores without buying anything) and shoplifting.
I think that’s true, but I don’t think it’s a problem that anybody cares about solving.

My mom says they used to have six or so dances a year when she was in school. Now we have three- only the formal ones that cost lots of money. 🤷

I’ve never understood how being “grounded” (when it just means staying at your own house) is much of a punishment, since there’s never anywhere to go.

The only place I can think of where you don’t spend a lot of money is a park. Unfortunately, parks are usually not very populated, and going to one would certainly not count as being chaperoned by the public. 🤷

Libraries are free, but you can’t exactly hang out when you have to be really quiet. 😃
 
The only place I can think of where you don’t spend a lot of money is a park. Unfortunately, parks are usually not very populated, and going to one would certainly not count as being chaperoned by the public. 🤷
Some parks are better than others-- there are a few I enjoy quite a bit in my area-- but many are pretty sad. :o
Libraries are free, but you can’t exactly hang out when you have to be really quiet. 😃
I thought about that too! 😉

The development of areas in which people can spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money is something to which, I hope, more folks might give some serious thought. We live in a very materialistic and consumerist society, but these things could become possible if we put our minds to it. 🙂
 
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