Thoughts on what age dating should start?

[TheRealJuliane]

I think that’s true, but I don’t think it’s a problem that anybody cares about solving.

My mom says they used to have six or so dances a year when she was in school. Now we have three- only the formal ones that cost lots of money.

I’ve never understood how being “grounded” (when it just means staying at your own house) is much of a punishment, since there’s never anywhere to go.

The only place I can think of where you don’t spend a lot of money is a park. Unfortunately, parks are usually not very populated, and going to one would certainly not count as being chaperoned by the public.

**Libraries are free, but you can’t exactly hang out when you have to be really quiet. **

Have you actually BEEN in a library lately???



They are nothing like quiet!!! The librarians don’t keep any sort of quiet atmosphere and most people are there to use the free internet, not browse the shelves for actual books. No one speaks in hushed tones any more! That’s the ancient past of our childhoods! You may as well be in a mall or any other public place. I HATE going to the library!

 

[Kamaduck]

Have you actually BEEN in a library lately???



They are nothing like quiet!!! The librarians don’t keep any sort of quiet atmosphere and most people are there to use the free internet, not browse the shelves for actual books. No one speaks in hushed tones any more! That’s the ancient past of our childhoods! You may as well be in a mall or any other public place. I HATE going to the library!

I go to the library regularly. Mine is quiet.

 

[PatriceA]

Have you actually BEEN in a library lately???



They are nothing like quiet!!! The librarians don’t keep any sort of quiet atmosphere and most people are there to use the free internet, not browse the shelves for actual books. No one speaks in hushed tones any more! That’s the ancient past of our childhoods! You may as well be in a mall or any other public place. I HATE going to the library!

Our library is pretty good at having floors dedicated to quiet places as well as the basement is for people that want to chat and hang out. The children’s floor is even pretty quiet to a certain extent. They have accommodated both types of groups, those that want quiet and a place to study and those that are there to use the internet and “chat”. Its working well for all.

I love our library.

 

[Cat]

Regarding all the conversation about teens hanging out at a mall, it seems to me that one of the problems we have, culturally, is a dearth of good places for teenagers (and even adults) to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money. I think this may also be a contributing factor to problems like loitering (e.g. hanging around in stores without buying anything) and shoplifting.

In every generation, teenagers find place to “hang out” without parental supervision. There is nothing new under the sun.

If you read the Little House books, you will see that Laura Ingalls and her friends (boys and girls) got away from their folks for a while by taking buggy rides in the warm weather and sleigh rides in the cold weather.

A lot of the children’s and teen books of the past hint at “hangouts” enjoyed by the teenagers. Louisa May Alcott describes ice skating and picnicking as common “getaways” for the teenagers. No parents around.

My parents told me that when they were teenagers, the place to “hang out” was the roller skating rink. My parents were really good roller skaters!

My dad (RIP) told me that he and his friends would drive to “town” and eat ice cream (and look at the pretty girls).

In the 50s, kids hung out in the “soda shoppe.” A Coke cost a nickel, which was usually part of a teen’s allowance or chore money.

Not sure about the 60s. Not a lot has been written about this yet! It might have been “downtown.” Back then, many small cities and towns had thriving downtowns that weren’t dangerous.

Also outdoor parks–a lot of parks in the 1960s had programmed activities, and teens could hang out and play foursquare, make crafts, and just chat with other teens.

I think that outdoor theaters were still around in the 1960s, and I’m guessing a lot of teens hung out there.

In the 1970s, it was the bowling alley, the movie theater (indoor) and McDonald’s! In fact, I think this is one reason why McDonald’s is enjoying a resurgence of popularity with older Americans. Many of us who grew up hanging out at Macs and then abandoned it when we had children (not healthy!), are going BACK to McDonald’s for the type of conversation and relaxation that we enjoyed when we were young.

For that matter, bowling is currently the Number One NCAA scholarship sport, so many of us must be encouraging our older kids to bowl.

In the 1980s and into the 1990s, it was the MALL! I don’t like to shop, but I admit that my husband and I still enjoy going to the Mall and just walking around. We don’t spend much money there–you don’t have to. A lot of times, there is free entertainment (local choirs, etc.) And we just love sitting and watching all the people walk by.

Also, in the 1980s, the roller skating rinks came back into popularity. My husband and I worked with teenagers back then, and almost all of them spent quite a bit of time at the roller rinks. The fad didn’t last long, but it lasted long enough to get quite a few of these kids interested in ice skating. In the late 1980s, there was a huge boom of ice skating popularity, and it lasted until the end of the 1990s. The Nancy-Tonya scandal and the Salt Lake City judging scandal kind of wrecked the attraction of ice skating for a lot of parents (plus the various economic downturns).

But a lot of teens do enjoy hanging out in the ice rink at public skates. Loud music, cheap concession food, and hanging on to the guy you like! Lots of fun.

I think that we need to be careful not to ascribe evil to something that is just a natural part of growing up. It’s normal for teens to try to “break away” from their parents, and places like picnic areas, roller and ice rinks, movie theaters, soda shoppes and hamburger joints, and shopping areas (mall and downtown) are good places to do this. Of course a kid can get into trouble–kids can get into trouble in CHURCH (lots of places to hide out and make out). But most kids just enjoy getting away from home for a while and getting a taste of what adult freedom and independence is like.

 

[dshix]

Have you actually BEEN in a library lately???



They are nothing like quiet!!! The librarians don’t keep any sort of quiet atmosphere and most people are there to use the free internet, not browse the shelves for actual books. No one speaks in hushed tones any more! That’s the ancient past of our childhoods! You may as well be in a mall or any other public place. I HATE going to the library!

My library is very quiet.

 

[EasterJoy]

Regarding all the conversation about teens hanging out at a mall, it seems to me that one of the problems we have, culturally, is a dearth of good places for teenagers (and even adults) to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money. I think this may also be a contributing factor to problems like loitering (e.g. hanging around in stores without buying anything) and shoplifting.

Yes. For instance, it was reported in Reviving Ophelia that young women are less likely to become promiscuous or have other social problems if they were in sports or had some activity with their family that took up a good-sized chunk of their time in doing something that raised their confidence and gave them enjoyment and social time. IOW, you can’t just “keep kids out of trouble”. Young people need to have something positive to do, and preferably something that isn’t so structured that they can’t handle variations in their courseload at school without undue stress.

Still, spending time window-shopping at a mall with your friends isn’t a bad thing, not when you’re 15 and not when you’re 55. I think the experience of going into a store and leaving without having purchased an item the first time you saw it is a good thing! It’s only a problem compared to other uses of time when it takes up so much time that boredom tempts towards bad judgment.

 

[Sarabande]

Have you actually BEEN in a library lately???



They are nothing like quiet!!! The librarians don’t keep any sort of quiet atmosphere and most people are there to use the free internet, not browse the shelves for actual books. No one speaks in hushed tones any more! That’s the ancient past of our childhoods! You may as well be in a mall or any other public place. I HATE going to the library!

The two libraries I’ve been to were pretty quiet. Very calm and relaxing, in fact. I’m usually in the music section of the library, though, where people take out scores, as well as listen to old recordings on records and cds, so that could make a difference. But the librarians in the other parts of the building as well as the security guards will immediately put the kibosh on any noise-making as soon as it starts. It’s in the city where a lot of lower class kids go to in order to do homework on the computers and take out books for class since their families can’t afford the luxury of owning one or just buying books for their book reports and such, so I guess they have to be more strict about these things.

 

[Cat]

The two libraries I’ve been to were pretty quiet. Very calm and relaxing, in fact. I’m usually in the music section of the library, though, where people take out scores, as well as listen to old recordings on records and cds, so that could make a difference. But the librarians in the other parts of the building as well as the security guards will immediately put the kibosh on any noise-making as soon as it starts. It’s in the city where a lot of lower class kids go to in order to do homework on the computers and take out books for class since their families can’t afford the luxury of owning one or just buying books for their book reports and such, so I guess they have to be more strict about these things.

Our library has a coffee bar and sandwich shoppe, and readers are encouraged to enjoy a snack or drink while reading.

When I think back to when I was a teenager going to the library, we were not allowed to bring one little morsel of food or one small cup of drink into the library…! We had to leave all our study materials and books on the table and go to the drinking fountain if we wanted something to drink!

I think if I were to sit down at our library with a drink and a sweet treat, the first thing I would do is spill my drink all over my library book, and the second thing I would do is get the book all sticky with treat while trying to scrub the drink off the book.

IMO, libraries and food/drink do not mix. Not a good plan for most normal, clutzy human beings.

 

[Sarabande]

First of all, any guy that would ask me out would have to meet with my parents and have to talk to them. -Any teenager being told this is like :dts: so many of them don’t show up when invited to come over. Another thing was that if he did come and he hopefully can in a car… He would have to get out of the car, ring the doorbell and talk about who you are, what are your intentions, where are you going, are you going alone, what are you to do when you get there, then You Will be back by midnight.

I see nothing wrong with any of this. It’s good for a parent to know who their child is dating (girl or boy) or even who they are friends with. When I dated, all of the males I ever went on a date with, came up to the door and met my parents, spoke with them, etc. It was the polite and right thing to do. Honestly, if a guy I thought I liked waited for me to come out of the house and get into the car without coming to the door to meet my parents, I’d be a bit turned off by him. My parents knew all of my friends and any young man I ever dated and I wanted it that way as well. There is such a thing as manners and common courtesy, but I guess people aren’t teaching the younger generations that anymore? Is it passe and too formal now? One of the funniest things I found out about my husband after we were dating for a while is that when we first began dating, he bought a book of etiquette by Miss Manners and read the entire book from cover to cover because he wanted to make a good impression on my parents… and on me. lol!

As another posted, what was allowed as a preacher’s daughter:shrug: so courting was the only option in my family. The chaperon was a must before you could even leave the house even wanted to talk the guy’s mom …(Don’t know why)
I didn’t get many guys to want to talk to my father after telling him all this… I don’t know maybe I should’ve just let the guy show up and then tell him??
I would think that you should be able to go out with friends in group dating by 15 while there was a constant debate with my parents. He insisted on 18 and older when you get to college and my mother thought that 16 with chaperones or group dating would be a good idea.

Chaperones are a nice idea. I used my younger sister as a chaperone for many dates when I dated my husband. Not all the time, but it also served as a good gauge to see how truly serious my husband was about me. My mother was very old-fashioned and when she began to date my father at 25, she always insisted on chaperones. They’d be on a date and there would often be about 5 other girlfriends with them and then just him… the tall, skinny white guy. If her girlfriends couldn’t come, then she insisted that he’d bring along his younger brother and sister (age 7 and 11 respectively). My dad was so smitten with her, especially because of the fact that she was so different from all of the other girls he dated (who were too fast for his liking) that he did anything to be with her and to get to know her better. They were engaged three months later and married about 9 months after that. They’ve been married for over 40 years. Now, after they were engaged, it was my grandfather (my dad’s father) who convinced my mom that they no longer really needed a chaperone, and they did do some things without any friends/family along, but my mother loved my husband’s family so they still continued to do things with them from time to time during the engagement.

 

[EasterJoy]

IMO this is what happened to me and I’m about to graduate college. I believe my father (way more than my mother) was way too over-protective. I usually would plead with my mother to talk with my father because she was more open to the idea of group dating than my father. I wasn’t able to date until 20 :ehh: I was very opposed and incredibly unhappy as to how the whole “dating thing” was put into affect.

First of all, any guy that would ask me out would have to meet with my parents and have to talk to them. -Any teenager being told this is like :dts: so many of them don’t show up when invited to come over. Another thing was that if he did come and he hopefully can in a car… He would have to get out of the car, ring the doorbell and talk about who you are, what are your intentions, where are you going, are you going alone, what are you to do when you get there, then You Will be back by midnight.

As another posted, what was allowed as a preacher’s daughter:shrug: so courting was the only option in my family. The chaperon was a must before you could even leave the house even wanted to talk the guy’s mom …(Don’t know why)
I didn’t get many guys to want to talk to my father after telling him all this… I don’t know maybe I should’ve just let the guy show up and then tell him??
I would think that you should be able to go out with friends in group dating by 15 while there was a constant debate with my parents. He insisted on 18 and older when you get to college and my mother thought that 16 with chaperones or group dating would be a good idea.

There’s no way I’d date a guy who was not willing to meet my dad or have my parents talk to his parents, and to be honest I was very interested to see how my dad and my brothers reacted to him. Seeing how “your guy” reacts to the males who have you under their protection is very telling. The attitude you want to see is that he really wants to be accepted as someone on their “team”…that is, “I’m here to make her safer out there, not to be the guy you’re worrying about”. Looking back, those were the guys who were the best long-range prospects. (Come to think of it, most of them had fathers with daughters, so maybe they’d already gotten the 3rd degree from their own dad at home! )

I did not have any expectation that the men in my family would be thrilled with anybody I brought home. I didn’t even expect they’d be thrilled with the guy I chose to marry. A mere “well, he might turn out to be alright” would be an “A” rating, if they didn’t know him yet, and might be all that even a very good man would rate, if he didn’t turn out to be a decent hunting companion for them. The likelihood is not high that any man who has not already proven himself a good father and husband within the bonds of Holy Matrimony is going to be deemed “good enough” for the father of the bride. That’s just the ways many if not most fathers are.

My dad did trust me to relate where-with-whom-and-for-how-long information, though, and did not insist on making eye contact with my date if he already had met him. The truth is that my dad seemed to be far less willing that I go out with a group of girls my own age than on a date with one young man. I think in retrospect that he knew more about what young women in our area might be prone to do while in large roaming groups than I did! It does depend on the local situation.

 

[aspirant]

…the roller skating rink…
eat ice cream…
the “soda shoppe”…
the bowling alley…
the movie theater…
McDonald’s…
the Mall…

These are all excellent examples of the problem I was talking about: “it seems to me that one of the problems we have, culturally, is a dearth of good places for teenagers (and even adults) to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money.”

If you spend too much time at the “soda shoppe” or McDonald’s without buying something, you may be asked to “stop loitering/preventing turnover” and leave. All the bowling alleys, skating rinks, and movie theaters I’ve been to have some form of entrance and/or rental fee-- going often is not always feasible. Movie theaters tend to discourage conversation in the theater itself and people staying for long periods of time before and after the movie. The longer one stays at a bowling alley, the more lane rental tends to cost. And so forth. I’ve spent time and money in all these ways, and I do like them, but I think they’re inadequate. Someone else mentioned team sports. I think team sports are also excellent activities. But they may also involve some expenses and they’re most definitely not “unstructured or lightly structured recreational time.”

Hence my concern. I actually believe that people-- not just teens but everyone-- need good places to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money. I consider this an important common good we don’t seem to have enough of.

 

[Debora123]

In every generation, teenagers find place to “hang out” without parental supervision. There is nothing new under the sun.

If you read the Little House books, you will see that Laura Ingalls and her friends (boys and girls) got away from their folks for a while by taking buggy rides in the warm weather and sleigh rides in the cold weather.

A lot of the children’s and teen books of the past hint at “hangouts” enjoyed by the teenagers. Louisa May Alcott describes ice skating and picnicking as common “getaways” for the teenagers. No parents around.

My parents told me that when they were teenagers, the place to “hang out” was the roller skating rink. My parents were really good roller skaters!

My dad (RIP) told me that he and his friends would drive to “town” and eat ice cream (and look at the pretty girls).

In the 50s, kids hung out in the “soda shoppe.” A Coke cost a nickel, which was usually part of a teen’s allowance or chore money.

Not sure about the 60s. Not a lot has been written about this yet! It might have been “downtown.” Back then, many small cities and towns had thriving downtowns that weren’t dangerous.

Also outdoor parks–a lot of parks in the 1960s had programmed activities, and teens could hang out and play foursquare, make crafts, and just chat with other teens.

I think that outdoor theaters were still around in the 1960s, and I’m guessing a lot of teens hung out there.

In the 1970s, it was the bowling alley, the movie theater (indoor) and McDonald’s! In fact, I think this is one reason why McDonald’s is enjoying a resurgence of popularity with older Americans. Many of us who grew up hanging out at Macs and then abandoned it when we had children (not healthy!), are going BACK to McDonald’s for the type of conversation and relaxation that we enjoyed when we were young.

For that matter, bowling is currently the Number One NCAA scholarship sport, so many of us must be encouraging our older kids to bowl.

In the 1980s and into the 1990s, it was the MALL! I don’t like to shop, but I admit that my husband and I still enjoy going to the Mall and just walking around. We don’t spend much money there–you don’t have to. A lot of times, there is free entertainment (local choirs, etc.) And we just love sitting and watching all the people walk by.

Also, in the 1980s, the roller skating rinks came back into popularity. My husband and I worked with teenagers back then, and almost all of them spent quite a bit of time at the roller rinks. The fad didn’t last long, but it lasted long enough to get quite a few of these kids interested in ice skating. In the late 1980s, there was a huge boom of ice skating popularity, and it lasted until the end of the 1990s. The Nancy-Tonya scandal and the Salt Lake City judging scandal kind of wrecked the attraction of ice skating for a lot of parents (plus the various economic downturns).

But a lot of teens do enjoy hanging out in the ice rink at public skates. Loud music, cheap concession food, and hanging on to the guy you like! Lots of fun.

I think that we need to be careful not to ascribe evil to something that is just a natural part of growing up. It’s normal for teens to try to “break away” from their parents, and places like picnic areas, roller and ice rinks, movie theaters, soda shoppes and hamburger joints, and shopping areas (mall and downtown) are good places to do this. Of course a kid can get into trouble–kids can get into trouble in CHURCH (lots of places to hide out and make out). But most kids just enjoy getting away from home for a while and getting a taste of what adult freedom and independence is like.

Thanks for the refreshingly SENSIBLE post!

 

[Cat]

These are all excellent examples of the problem I was talking about: “it seems to me that one of the problems we have, culturally, is a dearth of good places for teenagers (and even adults) to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money.”

If you spend too much time at the “soda shoppe” or McDonald’s without buying something, you may be asked to “stop loitering/preventing turnover” and leave. All the bowling alleys, skating rinks, and movie theaters I’ve been to have some form of entrance and/or rental fee-- going often is not always feasible. Movie theaters tend to discourage conversation in the theater itself and people staying for long periods of time before and after the movie. The longer one stays at a bowling alley, the more lane rental tends to cost. And so forth. I’ve spent time and money in all these ways, and I do like them, but I think they’re inadequate. Someone else mentioned team sports. I think team sports are also excellent activities. But they may also involve some expenses and they’re most definitely not “unstructured or lightly structured recreational time.”

Hence my concern. I actually believe that people-- not just teens but everyone-- need good places to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money. I consider this an important common good we don’t seem to have enough of.

But none of these places charge that much to “hang out.” If you come to public skating sessions at the rinks in our city, you will pay $6 for a few hours of ice (with popular music) and your skate rental. If you have your own skates, it’s only $4. And if you have one of the passes that are often given out in schools, churches, and at various festivals and fairs, it’s free. And you’re welcome to hang out all day. Even if you don’t skate, you can come and watch your friends skate, and hang out with them in the lobby. No one watches to see if you’re buying something or not. There are usually a few hundred teenagers and families with children and older people in the rinks during public skate, so the monitors are not paying attention to whether people are spending money.

Roller skating is comparable in cost. So is bowling. These are great activities (that burn calories, too!) and the cost is less than $10. A ten-dollar bill will give the teenager the activity, and a little extra money to buy a soft drink and small snack. (OUR skating rinks allow people to bring food and drink in–this isn’t usually the case in ice skating rinks, but it’s really a nice perk here in our city! My husband and I have often sent out for pizza and had it delivered to share with friends).

In the good weather, there’s putt putt or the driving ranges. These activities are very cheap. And some towns have water parks–we have a great water park, and if you buy a season pass for Christmas (around $70), you can go every day if you want! (Yes, I know, there are Christians who cannot be around young women wearing bathing suits.)

Some towns have tobaggan runs. We don’t, but we have two parks that have awesome hills, and people of all ages come to sled, tobaggan, and snowboard. That’s free!

Movies cost around $10, too, but if you go during the afternoon (right after school), you can get a very discounted rate (around $5). And many theaters now do a deal where you buy the popcorn and soda and get unlimited refills (not a good idea if you’re trying to lose weight, but there are still plenty of teenagers who aren’t obese yet). Most movies theaters these days are huge places, with lots of “hangout” areas. They don’t throw people out.

There really aren’t “soda shoppes” anymore. The equivalent would be Starbucks, which is a big hangout place for teens. You can buy a cup of coffee for under $5, and stay there all day. Same for places like Panera and Noodles. These places encourage people to hook up their computers and stay for hours studying, doing business, or simply cruising the web.

I do realize that there are families where $10 for one teenager’s “Saturday recreation” is too much. But honestly, most families in the U.S. do not find $10 an excessive amount of money. And IMO, a teenager should be able to earn a ten-spot doing babysitting or other neighborhood or parish chores. In fact, when my daughters were teens, they didn’t receive “recreational money” from us. They had to earn it. (Figure skating didn’t count as “recreational,” BTW!)

BTW, please consider that teens should not expect that everything in life will be “free.” You often get what you pay for.

 

[EasterJoy]

In every generation, teenagers find place to “hang out” without parental supervision. There is nothing new under the sun.

If you read the Little House books, you will see that Laura Ingalls and her friends (boys and girls) got away from their folks for a while by taking buggy rides in the warm weather and sleigh rides in the cold weather.

A lot of the children’s and teen books of the past hint at “hangouts” enjoyed by the teenagers. Louisa May Alcott describes ice skating and picnicking as common “getaways” for the teenagers. No parents around.

My parents told me that when they were teenagers, the place to “hang out” was the roller skating rink. My parents were really good roller skaters!

My dad (RIP) told me that he and his friends would drive to “town” and eat ice cream (and look at the pretty girls).

In the 50s, kids hung out in the “soda shoppe.” A Coke cost a nickel, which was usually part of a teen’s allowance or chore money.

Not sure about the 60s. Not a lot has been written about this yet! It might have been “downtown.” Back then, many small cities and towns had thriving downtowns that weren’t dangerous.

Also outdoor parks–a lot of parks in the 1960s had programmed activities, and teens could hang out and play foursquare, make crafts, and just chat with other teens.

I think that outdoor theaters were still around in the 1960s, and I’m guessing a lot of teens hung out there.

In the 1970s, it was the bowling alley, the movie theater (indoor) and McDonald’s! In fact, I think this is one reason why McDonald’s is enjoying a resurgence of popularity with older Americans. Many of us who grew up hanging out at Macs and then abandoned it when we had children (not healthy!), are going BACK to McDonald’s for the type of conversation and relaxation that we enjoyed when we were young.

For that matter, bowling is currently the Number One NCAA scholarship sport, so many of us must be encouraging our older kids to bowl.

In the 1980s and into the 1990s, it was the MALL! I don’t like to shop, but I admit that my husband and I still enjoy going to the Mall and just walking around. We don’t spend much money there–you don’t have to. A lot of times, there is free entertainment (local choirs, etc.) And we just love sitting and watching all the people walk by.

Also, in the 1980s, the roller skating rinks came back into popularity. My husband and I worked with teenagers back then, and almost all of them spent quite a bit of time at the roller rinks. The fad didn’t last long, but it lasted long enough to get quite a few of these kids interested in ice skating. In the late 1980s, there was a huge boom of ice skating popularity, and it lasted until the end of the 1990s. The Nancy-Tonya scandal and the Salt Lake City judging scandal kind of wrecked the attraction of ice skating for a lot of parents (plus the various economic downturns).

But a lot of teens do enjoy hanging out in the ice rink at public skates. Loud music, cheap concession food, and hanging on to the guy you like! Lots of fun.

I think that we need to be careful not to ascribe evil to something that is just a natural part of growing up. It’s normal for teens to try to “break away” from their parents, and places like picnic areas, roller and ice rinks, movie theaters, soda shoppes and hamburger joints, and shopping areas (mall and downtown) are good places to do this. Of course a kid can get into trouble–kids can get into trouble in CHURCH (lots of places to hide out and make out). But most kids just enjoy getting away from home for a while and getting a taste of what adult freedom and independence is like.

Little House on the Prairie? Oh, please. You’re saying Pa would let his girls go to some big town and hang out with a bunch of guys whom he had not vetted? You are saying that those girls went anywhere with anyone that Pa didn’t OK? You are dreaming. I had a dad like Pa, so I should know. Let’s just say, too, that I had many more disposable hours than Laura Ingalls. That girl worked hard all her life. She didn’t get anything like the “hanging out” time that today’s teens get. I’m not saying that the mall is forbidden! If a girl only went to the mall as often as Laura Ingalls got to go out and have fun instead of working, she wouldn’t have time to get into much trouble. The idea of having a lot of time to “hang out” is relatively new, and I’m not so sure it has caught on with farming families even now!

Your way-back-when examples were also teens nearing or at marriageable age, spending time with other young people whose parents were known to the other parents and usually had met with approval as something like decent marriage prospects, doing things that the parents had approved and which the young people knew that some adult might be observing. This was expected! Nobody expected a girl’s father was insulting his daughter by keeping an eye on her! The young people, for instance, got the porch to themselves, but the window was open and everybody knew it!

In the books you cite, the “public places” were small town and anything you did in public would become public knowledge and would certainly get back to your parents. I know this kind of place, because I grew up in one. That is a million miles from a mall with a commuter train stop.

 

[aspirant]

But none of these places charge that much to “hang out.”

“Much” is a relative term, though. Hence the concern.

As you said:

I do realize that there are families where $10 for one teenager’s “Saturday recreation” is too much.

Most definitely. Even many teens who earn their own money cannot afford this sort of thing.

If you come to public skating sessions at the rinks in our city, you will pay $6 for a few hours of ice (with popular music) and your skate rental. If you have your own skates, it’s only $4. And if you have one of the passes that are often given out in schools, churches, and at various festivals and fairs, it’s free.

Without the free passes, for example, this could quickly add up to quite an expense for many people. In the distribution of free passes, some effort has been made to make this a more accessible form of lightly structured recreation. Those free passes bring this social pastime closer to the sort of thing I’m advocating.

In places that have a significant freeze, that have publicly accessible ponds and the like, and where used ice skates may be purchased for relatively little money, all the better!

I’m definitely not saying that no one has anything. I live in a warm climate where ice skating is a much rarer possibility. We do, however, have a small public skate park for skateboarders to which access is free. A board will cost something, of course, but the park does help make this form of skating more accessible. That’s terrific. I would like to see more such spaces and opportunities.

Most movies theaters these days are huge places, with lots of “hangout” areas.

This may be great in your area, it’s not so common in mine. Generally speaking, one must have purchased a ticket even to enter, and the only spaces in which to “hang out” will be a couple of benches and maybe a couple of arcade games (which cost more money).

Starbucks, which is a big hangout place for teens. You can buy a cup of coffee for under $5, and stay there all day. Same for places like Panera and Noodles.

None of these places, in my area, would encourage teens to hang out all day, especially if they don’t purchase much. They don’t even like quiet adults hanging around very long unless they continue to justify their presence by buying more things.

BTW, please consider that teens should not expect that everything in life will be “free.”

I agree. That’s not my point.

 

[EasterJoy]

BTW, please consider that teens should not expect that everything in life will be “free.” You often get what you pay for.

Keeping your habitual expenses low is a good habit with money. For instance, we are teaching our boys to cook. If they know how to make homemade meals and goodies, they’ll be able to do a lot better than treating their friends (and dates) to expensive meals out, and nobody’s restaurant wants you “hanging out” as long at their establishment as you can hang out in satisfaction at your own table. Sure they’ll still get to eat out at restaurants–when it is their non-cooking friends’ turn to treat!!

 

[aspirant]

Keeping your habitual expenses low is a good habit with money. For instance, we are teaching our boys to cook. If they know how to make homemade meals and goodies, they’ll be able to do a lot better than treating their friends (and dates) to expensive meals out…

 

[PatriceA]

These are all excellent examples of the problem I was talking about: “it seems to me that one of the problems we have, culturally, is a dearth of good places for teenagers (and even adults) to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money.”

If you spend too much time at the “soda shoppe” or McDonald’s without buying something, you may be asked to “stop loitering/preventing turnover” and leave. All the bowling alleys, skating rinks, and movie theaters I’ve been to have some form of entrance and/or rental fee-- going often is not always feasible. Movie theaters tend to discourage conversation in the theater itself and people staying for long periods of time before and after the movie. The longer one stays at a bowling alley, the more lane rental tends to cost. And so forth. I’ve spent time and money in all these ways, and I do like them, but I think they’re inadequate. Someone else mentioned team sports. I think team sports are also excellent activities. But they may also involve some expenses and they’re most definitely not “unstructured or lightly structured recreational time.”

Hence my concern. I actually believe that people-- not just teens but everyone-- need good places to spend some unstructured or lightly structured recreational time socializing with friends without spending a lot of money. I consider this an important common good we don’t seem to have enough of.

I totally get what you are saying. I think Cat lives in an area that just seems to offer more for people of all ages to go and socialize. Cat, I think you might be missing the point that not everyone lives in towns or areas that offer all you suggested. My old hometown doesn’t, there is one tiny movie theater and a Burger King that is on the outskirts of town. That’s it, when I was growing up, you had to have access to a car to go anywhere with your friends or on a date. The town I live in now is quite similar. We just don’t have a lot of places that adults, let alone teens, can go to and be entertained or hang out if you don’t have a car. Fortunately, some of business people have recognized the problem and have formed a committee to try and raise some money to begin to offer places that are teen friendly. But not everyone has access to skating rinks, or bowling alleys, or arcades, or any of the other places you suggested. Many of the old timers in my town talk about how much use to be available to teens when they were that age, those places are long, long gone. Like someone mentioned school dances, my daughter’s high school has only two dances during the school year, homecoming and prom. When I was her age, we had a dance in the gym almost every weekend, nothing formal, just kids being kids. There isn’t a whole lot for teens to do in some areas of the country.

 

[Cat]

I totally get what you are saying. I think Cat lives in an area that just seems to offer more for people of all ages to go and socialize. Cat, I think you might be missing the point that not everyone lives in towns or areas that offer all you suggested…(shortend for word limit). There isn’t a whole lot for teens to do in some areas of the country.

Boldface mine, above.

PatriceA, you and I get along well, so I don’t mean for this to be a tirade against you.

But when teens say that they have nothing to do, this irks me a lot.

Teens in the U.S. need to stop waiting for someone to provide them with something to alleviate their boredom and get off of their butts and go FIND something to do!!!

When I was around 13 years old, I had a philosophy that I wrote all over various slam books and yearbooks and anytime I wrote letters or notes: “Its a sin to be bored or boring.”

Obviously, boredom isn’t a sin. I know that now that I’m an adult.

The point is, as a teenager, I made a decision not to be bored. And I think my philosophy is a good one for ALL teens.

I know PLENTY of teens who have PLENTY to do, and are never bored. There are thousands of things for teens to do, and they can do these things in small groups or couples, and most of these activities are done IN PUBLIC, in full view of parents and other adults, so they keep a teen away from temptation.

E.g., fitness activities. NOTHING will stop a teen from forming a running group and training for local 5ks, half marys, or other races, and many of these races are run to raise funds for a charity, so the teen can stay in shape and help out with a charity.

And there are many other “Free” fitness activites: shooting hoops at someone’s garage, dancing to music (someone’s family room, basement or backyard). tossing a ball around, playing foursquare, etc. Our city hosted a Quidditch tourny this weekend (it’s the game played in Harry Potter).

E.g., arts activites. It doesn’t take a theater to start a theater group. Karol Wojtyla was part of an underground theater group during the Nazi occupation of Poland. They got together at homes and READ plays. It’s easy enough to get plays from the internet if you don’t have money to buy them or don’t have access to a library.

Or teens can approach their local community theater and ask for involvement. Even if they aren’t actors, there’s plenty for teens to do. E.g., I’m currently working with a community theater group (accompanying their spring musical). Three of the cast members are teens. And for some reason, the production staff doesn’t seem to have a lot of volunteer help to do things like build and paint scenery. It would be a blessing if a group of teens showed up and said, “We want to help. What can we do?” The stage manager, after recovering from her shock, would immediately put these teens to work painting for the show. And they would serve on the stage crew during the show. This is lots of fun for teens, and great for the community.

I’m willing to bet that community theaters all over the U.S. would love to have teen volunteers step up and say, “What can we do?”

Or start a music group. Many bands started out in the garage of their parents’ home. This is a time-honored teen tradition–the Garage Band. It’s fun!

Or if the teens aren’t into rock, then start a chant group. Or a madrigal group. Or a camp-song group. Or a song-writing group.

I mentioned in another post that my husband and I wrote plays together back when we were dating in our teen years. One of those plays made it to State! Collaborating on a writing project is fun and free! Write screenplays–there is free software that will help the writers to put their screenplay into the correct format

Or create a flashmob! There are so many fun flashmobs out there created by TEENAGERS!

Or film a documentary–at least one teen will have to have a camera to do this, or the teens could all combine their savings and buy a camera.

Or film youtube video–make it a goal to film a youtube video that goes viral.

Or do a service project. Almost every day on Today Show and the other secular news programs, there are stories about regular teenagers who saw a need and took action in their communities. Teens can do so much good. This could be done in the parish, or in the secular realm. There is plenty of need in any community, and so IMO, there is simply no excuse for a teen to say, “I have nothing to do.” We have teenagers in our city who routinely log 40 hours a week of VOLUNTEER activity–they are awesome kids and an example for all of us!

Christian teens can form a prayer group in and/or out of their school. Or get uber-involved with their church or parish youth group. What, no parish youth group? Well, then START ONE!

I could go on and spend my whole day writing a list of free things for teens to do, but there is a word limit on CAF. My point–YES, there are plenty of things for broke teens to do. I don’t buy for one second the litany, “There’s nothing to do in our town!” That’s lazy thinking.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

. There isn’t a whole lot for teens to do in some areas of the country.

Yeah, I know a lot of small towns that offer a Wal-Mart, a McDonald’s, and a Sonic. No mall at all. Nothing like a skating rink, a bowling alley, or any other entertainment venue. Kids that live in such areas will go hang out at the Sonic. Unfortunately quite a number of them get into drugs and alcohol at an early age.

There is nowhere to go in small-town America.