Thoughts on whether Judaism is more similar to Catholicism or Protestantism

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meltzerboy

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In a way, of course, Judaism resembles neither with respect to its position about Jesus and the Trinity; while on the other hand, it resembles both as the elder Abrahamic monotheistic faith from which Christianity and some of its rituals derive, as well as the cultural and religious roots of Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and the Apostles. However, I present this statement particularly with regard to such Protestant ideas as sola scriptura and sola fide (while recognizing significant variations between different dominations) and Catholic concepts such as Church tradition, papal infallibility, and final authority. Having learned quite a bit about Catholicism (as well as Protestantism) on this Forum, I’ve been thinking about these issues and Judaism’s relation to them. For example, it seems to me Judaism is closer to Catholicism with regard to the importance of tradition as a complement to and interpretation of scripture; yet resembles Protestantism more concerning individual interpretation of scripture without recourse to a single authoritative source in the form of dogma and doctrines of the Church. I personally find this division interesting. Any thoughts on the matter of similarities are welcome.
 
meltzerboy said:
In a way, of course, Judaism resembles neither with respect to its position about Jesus and the Trinity; while on the other hand, it resembles both as the elder Abrahamic monotheistic faith from which Christianity and some of its rituals derive, as well as the cultural and religious roots of Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and the Apostles. However, I present this statement particularly with regard to such Protestant ideas as sola scriptura and sola fide (while recognizing significant variations between different dominations) and Catholic concepts such as Church tradition, papal infallibility, and final authority. Having learned quite a bit about Catholicism (as well as Protestantism) on this Forum, I’ve been thinking about these issues and Judaism’s relation to them. For example, it seems to me Judaism is closer to Catholicism with regard to the importance of tradition as a complement to and interpretation of scripture; yet resembles Protestantism more concerning individual interpretation of scripture without recourse to a single authoritative source in the form of dogma and doctrines of the Church. I personally find this division interesting. Any thoughts on the matter of similarities are welcome.
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I am going to be blunt here.
Catholics have not been any closer to Judaism than Protestants no matter how we look at the theological differences.

Catholics like to think their faith is based on Judaism.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I am going to be blunt here.
Catholics have not been any closer to Judaism than Protestants no matter how we look at the theological differences.

Catholics like to think their faith is based on Judaism.
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Actually, I have to strongly disagree with you on this point. My studies of Judaism are growing with every experience. I’ve discovered many more similarities between Catholicism and Judaism. I’ve been studying Old and New Testament for many years, decade, during which time I’ve realized just how close much of my then Protestantism was much more removed from Judaism that was Catholicism. I had a difficult time reconciling the differences and similarities. The Protestant similarities lie within Catholicism as well. But Tradition is a huge one. However, it is not confined to merely Tradition. As I gained more insight as to what “Tradition” really meant, Once I got past this point in my studies, Protestantism began to quickly fall apart.
 
I’ve always thought Jews and Catholics are closer than Catholics and Protestants. With some Protestants, MUCH closer.
 
meltzerboy said:
In a way, of course, Judaism resembles neither with respect to its position about Jesus and the Trinity; while on the other hand, it resembles both as the elder Abrahamic monotheistic faith from which Christianity and some of its rituals derive, as well as the cultural and religious roots of Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and the Apostles.

However, I present this statement particularly with regard to such Protestant ideas as sola scriptura and sola fide (while recognizing significant variations between different dominations) and Catholic concepts such as Church tradition, papal infallibility, and final authority.

Having learned quite a bit about Catholicism (as well as Protestantism) on this Forum, I’ve been thinking about these issues and Judaism’s relation to them. For example, it seems to me Judaism is closer to Catholicism with regard to the importance of tradition as a complement to and interpretation of scripture; yet resembles Protestantism more concerning individual interpretation of scripture without recourse to a single authoritative source in the form of dogma and doctrines of the Church. I personally find this division interesting. Any thoughts on the matter of similarities are welcome.
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This question merits a TV programme or a book :).

One interesting thing about Judaism, that IMO is more similar to Protestantism, is that Shabbat is “portable”–it’s possible to observe it anywhere, even at home, even without a rabbi. While there’s loads of practices and activities you can do anywhere–rosary prayers, Liturgy of the Hours, scapulars, etc.–Catholicism depends heavily on the parish and the priest.
 
It’s true that Catholicism depends very much on the priesthood- But ancient Judaism or the Judaism practiced when the temple stood on the Holy Land was very much centered around the Temple. Due to it’s destruction and the Jews being removed from the holy Land, this aspect of Judaism is not visible in Jewish practice for obvious reasons. So in that regard there maybe a similarity with protestantism. But the Church began when the temple stood on the temple mount, and much of the understanding of the christian priesthood was derived from the Levitical priesthood, the sacraments derive from that also as well as a combination of the passover and strictly Christian ideas, like Christ and the Eucharist being both the passover lamb and meal and the bread and wine and all the other atonement sacrifices. The mass’s origin is indeed a combination of synagogue and “Christian passover”. This is all because Christianity was started by an all-Jewish crowd.

There are definitely differences of course, as noted in OP. Apart from Christian doctrine, there are certain practices in Catholicism that derive from different cultures.
 
Marybeloved said:
It’s true that Catholicism depends very much on the priesthood- But ancient Judaism or the Judaism practiced when the temple stood on the Holy Land was very much centered around the Temple. Due to it’s destruction and the Jews being removed from the holy Land, this aspect of Judaism is not visible in Jewish practice for obvious reasons. So in that regard there maybe a similarity with protestantism.
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Judaism was definitely centered around the Temple in ancient times, but Judaism isn’t completely dependent on the Temple or priesthood. Really, the first ‘temple’ was the ark, basically a box behind a curtain in a tent in the desert. When the 1st and 2nd temples were destroyed, they were certainly blows, but Judaism carried on.

In contrast, Catholicism definitely can’t survive without the Church. There would be no Mass, no adoration, no Sacraments (except for baptism and maybe marriage).
 
Bezant said:
Judaism was definitely centered around the Temple in ancient times, but Judaism isn’t completely dependent on the Temple or priesthood. Really, the first ‘temple’ was the ark, basically a box behind a curtain in a tent in the desert. When the 1st and 2nd temples were destroyed, they were certainly blows, but Judaism carried on.

In contrast, Catholicism definitely can’t survive without the Church. There would be no Mass, no adoration, no Sacraments (except for baptism and maybe marriage).
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I don’t get what you’re saying “no Sacraments (except for baptism and maybe marriage)”, without Holy Orders who would administer any of the Sacraments.

And are you confining “the Church” to mean a building? Because the early Christians worshipped in a volunteers home and/or in catacombs during pursecution. But if you are referring to “the Church” to mean the mystical body of Christ then of course without the mystical body of Christ there would not be Catholicism because that would mean that Christ did not join us to Himself on the Cross.
 
Bezant said:
Judaism was definitely centered around the Temple in ancient times, but Judaism isn’t completely dependent on the Temple or priesthood. Really, the first ‘temple’ was the ark, basically a box behind a curtain in a tent in the desert. When the 1st and 2nd temples were destroyed, they were certainly blows, but Judaism carried on.

In contrast, Catholicism definitely can’t survive without the Church. There would be no Mass, no adoration, no Sacraments (except for baptism and maybe marriage).
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Hello, my friend,

Actually, I beg to differ. I live in an African country where parts of the country have enough priests and other parts have almost none. There are places that only see a priest occasionaly if possible. Catholic life does not stop. They still meet, pray and do everything they can without a priest. There are places in this world where Catholics have to carry on without a priest. They have baptisms, secret services, and have to rely on acts of contrition for forgiveness. Catholic life does not stop when a priest is not available. There is a lot of difficulty, obviously, and the Church will grant a lot of dispensations- But “the Church” is not synonymous with the priests- it’s all baptized Catholics in union with the Pope, and they will carry on in the ways that the circumstances permit.
 
meltzerboy said:
… For example, it seems to me Judaism is closer to Catholicism with regard to the importance of tradition as a complement to and interpretation of scripture; yet resembles Protestantism more concerning individual interpretation of scripture without recourse to a single authoritative source in the form of dogma and doctrines of the Church.
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Dear Meltzerboy—

Your observations here are similar to what mine would be.

My dad was raised as a Reform Jew, who later became a Christian. While I’ve been happy for my Christian up-bringing, I have had to explore Judaism on my own; and though I have Catholic friends and have read a very considerable amount about Catholicism, I’m not a Catholic—all that being to say that I don’t claim to be an expert in either Judaism or Catholicism, just a curious person.
 
When I consider Judaism and its familiarity with Catholicism, there is not doubt that it does resemble my faith. Once I entered a military post chapel. At first I thought it was a Catholic worship service. I went to confession in the back and was very confused because it had the feel of a mass. Trust me, I had plenty of Protestant upbringing by this time in my life and this was no Protestant worship service at all. It turned out to be a Jewish service.

Orthodoxy Judaism looks much like Catholic worship service. I don’t consider this 70’s style, post VCII to be orthodox. I expect that a return to orthodoxy is currently underway. I look at the entire salvation history, not just the most recent 50 years as a litmus test. The TLM is coming home gradually in full bloom. Those Catholics that make mass feel like a Protestant worship service are seriously wrong because they are pushing their own agenda.

Side line thought: One of the reasons I love the Orthodox Church is because of the Divine Liturgy. The icons have deep meaning as Latin art should as well. The art is not located in Protestant Churches. Nor is it located in Jewish synagogs. The use of Greek fascinates me in the Greek Church.
 
Bezant said:
Judaism was definitely centered around the Temple in ancient times, but Judaism isn’t completely dependent on the Temple or priesthood. Really, the first ‘temple’ was the ark, basically a box behind a curtain in a tent in the desert. When the 1st and 2nd temples were destroyed, they were certainly blows, but Judaism carried on.

In contrast, Catholicism definitely can’t survive without the Church. There would be no Mass, no adoration, no Sacraments (except for baptism and maybe marriage).
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I have come the believe the first Temple was creation, a macro-Temple, with the Garden of Eden the Sanctuary and Adam the first Priest.
 
asd72 said:
I have come the believe the first Temple was creation, a macro-Temple, with the Garden of Eden the Sanctuary and Adam the first Priest.
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An intriguing idea, however, a priest is only necessary for redemption. The fall of man had yet begun. Was Eden a Temple? I like the idea of that. Our bodies are temples. I would like to see a refutation on this idea as well as a theological analogy on it.
 
I’ve been debating online with some (former) Protestants who now claim themselves as part of the “Hebrew Roots Movement”. To be short, they consider themselves Christians, but they also believe that they must follow Old Covenant laws, celebrate the High Holidays (of course, cause we Catholic pagans changed the sabbath), etc.

When I asked one what they were doing, using a computer and breaking the sabbath, they treated me like I was insane. When quoted that interpretation of the Mishnah, they rolled their eyes, claiming it “the traditions of men”.

That had a familiar ring to it.

Jews have the Torah, but they also have the “Oral Torah”, which most Jews accept as equally important. There are a few Sola Scriptura sects, one I can think of is the Kairites.

Jews and Catholics both have Oral/Apostolic traditions that are a large part of our faith.

Protestanism can’t compare. 👍
 
PbloPicasso said:
An intriguing idea, however, a priest is only necessary for redemption. The fall of man had yet begun. Was Eden a Temple? I like the idea of that. Our bodies are temples. I would like to see a refutation on this idea as well as a theological analogy on it.
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Scott Hahn - A Father Who Keeps His Promises: God’s Covenant Love In Scripture, is a good book that explains this idea if you are interested.
 
Let’s all remember that the Judiasm of today is not the Judaism at the time of Jesus (the Second Temple). It’s significantly different in numerous ways.
 
asd72 said:
I have come the believe the first Temple was creation, a macro-Temple, with the Garden of Eden the Sanctuary and Adam the first Priest.
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I think I can see that. Eden, like the temple, and like the ark of Noah, was something of a blue-print for society.
 
ProdigalAnglicn said:
Let’s all remember that the Judiasm of today is not the Judaism at the time of Jesus (the Second Temple). It’s significantly different in numerous ways.
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That’s exactly what I’ve been saying, but I don’t saying explicitly each time.
 
asd72 said:
Scott Hahn - A Father Who Keeps His Promises: God’s Covenant Love In Scripture, is a good book that explains this idea if you are interested.
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Ah, yes. Scott Hahn, I should have known. Covenant Theology is his expertise. I believe I’ve heard this before from one of his CDs telling his story. However, I could have connected the dots mentally. I’ll check it out.
 
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