Thread for Filipinos: Iglesia ni Cristo, bersyon ni Manalo 101

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kat_holos

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Hi I am inviting everyone to this discussion about the Iglesia ni Cristo. We will begin our discussion with their claim that Jesus isn’t God because;
  1. According to the INC, the Logos in John 1 isn’t God. The verse which read, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” doesn’t refer to the Logos as God. The word God in the “Word was God” is not a name or identification but an adjective, meaning the God in that verse refers only to qualities of the Logos which is “godlike” e.g. being worshipped, divine kingship etc.
  2. Because Jesus claimed to be man and in the book of prophet Hosea, God said, “For I am God and not man” (Hosea 11:9).
We will also discuss the claim of the Manalonians that their beloved founder is the Ravenous bird from the East (an identity he took from the Book of Prophet Isaiah) even if the “Ravenous Bird” refers to Cyrus.

We would also deal with their accusation that the Catholic Church apostatized from the true faith.

This is going to be an exciting discussion, so start posting your opinions about this new topic.
 
Addendum:
I am also inviting former INC members to give their testimonies on their conversion back to the Catholic Church.
 
I think this is a great idea and I encourage it.

The only thing that I will ask (as per the Forum Rules) is that all posts be in English so that everyone can understand and appreciate/contribute to the discussion.

If you need any other help please just PM me. Any posts that violate the rules or Banned Topics will need to be reported to the staff as normal using the http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/report.gifBad Post Report system though. 🙂

God bless you all.
MF
 
kat_holos said:
Hi I am inviting everyone to this discussion about the Iglesia ni Cristo. We will begin our discussion with their claim that Jesus isn’t God because;
  1. According to the INC, the Logos in John 1 isn’t God. The verse which read, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” doesn’t refer to the Logos as God. The word God in the “Word was God” is not a name or identification but an adjective, meaning the God in that verse refers only to qualities of the Logos which is “godlike” e.g. being worshipped, divine kingship etc.
  2. Because Jesus claimed to be man and in the book of prophet Hosea, God said, “For I am God and not man” (Hosea 11:9).
We will also discuss the claim of the Manalonians that their beloved founder is the Ravenous bird from the East (an identity he took from the Book of Prophet Isaiah) even if the “Ravenous Bird” refers to Cyrus.

We would also deal with their accusation that the Catholic Church apostatized from the true faith.

This is going to be an exciting discussion, so start posting your opinions about this new topic.
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how about you? how can you prove that trinity is IN the bible?? can you show me verses?? ok? hehe and im not going to consider if your answer is that trinity is a mistery and no one understand it, and that jesus is “liar” because he did not say that he is god like what catholics claiming in their teachings, ok?^^ i hope that you were graduated and you know, know about math, in addition, subtraction etc… well, is 1+1+1=1?? hehehe^^
 
how about you? how can you prove that trinity is IN the bible?? can you show me verses?? …and that jesus is “liar” because he did not say that he is god like what catholics claiming in their teachings, ok?^^ i hope that you were graduated and you know, know about math, in addition, subtraction etc… well, is 1+1+1=1?? hehehe^^
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All right, I’ll bite:

“Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” In Matthew.

1+1+1=1 is wrong as we believe there are three Persons in one God, not Three Gods. 1+1+1=3.

There’s an ancient formula that goes: (paraphrasing)

The Father is not the Son, and vice versa
The Son is not the Holy Spirit, and vice versa
The Holy Spirit is not the Father, and vice versa

Yet this is all one God.

Jesus said he was God. In John: “Before Abraham was, I AM”.His audience was enraged, because “I AM” = YHWH, the name of God. Also, Thomas called him “my Lord and my God!” Why didn’t Jesus correct him?
 
Your math is wrong read_me.

It’s 1 X 1 X 1 = 1.

God did say “Go forth and multiply.” 😃
 
read_me said:
how about you? how can you prove that trinity is IN the bible?? can you show me verses?? ok? hehe and im not going to consider if your answer is that trinity is a mistery and no one understand it, and that jesus is “liar” because he did not say that he is god like what catholics claiming in their teachings, ok?^^ i hope that you were graduated and you know, know about math, in addition, subtraction etc… well, is 1+1+1=1?? hehehe^^
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oh, and maybe you could also show us the verse which clearly states “Jesus is not God”, could you? In John 1:1 could you also show us the verse which states “God is adjective”? If you want you could also use the Catechism of the Catholic Church to show us that we believe 1+1+1=1, could you?
 
read_me said:
how about you? how can you prove that trinity is IN the bible?? can you show me verses?? ok? hehe and im not going to consider if your answer is that trinity is a mistery and no one understand it, and that jesus is “liar” because he did not say that he is god like what catholics claiming in their teachings, ok?^^ i hope that you were graduated and you know, know about math, in addition, subtraction etc… well, is 1+1+1=1?? hehehe^^
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for me, you’re the funniest member here … because you’re trying to spread manalo’s word in this site …
 
Pons said:
All right, I’ll bite:

“Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” In Matthew.

1+1+1=1 is wrong as we believe there are three Persons in one God, not Three Gods. 1+1+1=3.

There’s an ancient formula that goes: (paraphrasing)

The Father is not the Son, and vice versa
The Son is not the Holy Spirit, and vice versa
The Holy Spirit is not the Father, and vice versa

Yet this is all one God.

Jesus said he was God. In John: “Before Abraham was, I AM”.His audience was enraged, because “I AM” = YHWH, the name of God. Also, Thomas called him “my Lord and my God!” Why didn’t Jesus correct him?
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So, who is the real god? is it the word or god that is mentioned in that verse? how CAN BE A GOD BE WITH GOD? “And the word was with god” SO, therefore, there are TWO GODS? haha Or the FACT that the WORD is a foreknowledge of god?
 
jamil_joseph02 said:
oh, and maybe you could also show us the verse which clearly states “Jesus is not God”, could you? In John 1:1 could you also show us the verse which states “God is adjective”? If you want you could also use the Catechism of the Catholic Church to show us that we believe 1+1+1=1, could you?
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Oh wait, but at the first place, is there ANY verse in the bible that jesus christ declared that he is the true god? and that the father is he and the holy spirit is he… or that three is equals to one god? Or the FACT THAT the TRINITY is not found in the bible that it is only a FORMULATION of the CHURCH FATHERS and not a doctrine of the apostles?
 
read_me said:
Oh wait, but at the first place, is there ANY verse in the bible that jesus christ declared that he is the true god? and that the father is he and the holy spirit is he… or that three is equals to one god? Or the FACT THAT the TRINITY is not found in the bible that it is only a FORMULATION of the CHURCH FATHERS and not a doctrine of the apostles?
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well, why don’t you answer my questions first? I asked in the first place. Does that mean you simply could not think of an answer? Don’t change the topic okay?

Again,
  1. Where in the bible does it say “Jesus is not God”?
  2. Where in John 1:1 does it say that “God is adjective”?
  3. Prove to me Catholics believe 1+1+1=1 by showing it in our Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Let’s see if you really are telling the truth.
 
Michael_Francis said:
The only thing that I will ask (as per the Forum Rules) is that all posts be in English so that everyone can understand and appreciate/contribute to the discussion.

It doesn’t help if the thread title is also not in English. What that does is exclude people from the general forum. It seems to me that the place for that is in the individual social groups which people can turn to to “specialize.”
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The Filipino forum isn’t very active, though.
is there ANY verse in the bible that jesus christ declared that he is the true god?
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I’ll address this again. From the Gospel of John:

*So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?”

Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”*

“I AM” = YHWH in Hebrew. The Jews did not fail to miss this.

So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.

Also, to whom did Thomas address “my Lord and my God”?
So, who is the real god? is it the word or god that is mentioned in that verse? how CAN BE A GOD BE WITH GOD? “And the word was with god” SO, therefore, there are TWO GODS? haha Or the FACT that the WORD is a foreknowledge of god?
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“And the Word was God.”
 
jamil_joseph02 said:
well, why don’t you answer my questions first? I asked in the first place. Does that mean you simply could not think of an answer? Don’t change the topic okay?

Again,
  1. Where in the bible does it say “Jesus is not God”?
  2. Where in John 1:1 does it say that “God is adjective”?
  3. Prove to me Catholics believe 1+1+1=1 by showing it in our Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Let’s see if you really are telling the truth.
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Wait, thats not the question, the question is, WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY “Jesus declared that he is god”? If you are just reading the bible, in all content of it, jesus introduce himself as the SON OF GOD and not a son-god. and he always intoduced the only true god, the father, who has sent him. am i right? haha or you just denying it? And now, i see that you are a great joker! because you nakes me laugh! hahaha do you study elementary and etc? Why will be the bible will say what you are asking? that “God is adjective?” haha it is how it must understand because the bible is written in the hebrew (correct me if im wrong), and the bible scholars (who are professional in that) proves it. That’s why it has so many version or translation in the bible because of it. And last, do i said that the catholics TRUE doctrine is like 1+1+1=1? It is simple as that giving a test,
TEST: ferdie is the father of jose, and james was the son of jose. they are all in the house. question: how many are there in the house?
what will you answer? 1? haaha
 
Dear Pons,
Pons said:
The Filipino forum isn’t very active, though.

I’ll address this again. From the Gospel of John:

*So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?”

Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”*

“I AM” = YHWH in Hebrew. The Jews did not fail to miss this.

So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.

Also, to whom did Thomas address “my Lord and my God”?

“And the Word was God.”
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Read Me might not be able to respond. It’s possible that verse is missing from their “Bible” or so distorted that it no longer resembles the original Greek. I had an encounter with an INC minister once. Part of that experience I related in another thread about the INC in the Non-Catholic Religions Forum.

Another peculiarity of that meeting is that he pulled out 3 different Protestant Bible translations when he tried to explain the scriptural basis for the INC. He had to constantly move between translations to make his point, because no one book would support what he was saying “according to the Word” (those were his words, but he really meant “according to the Translations”).

As I stated in the other thread, there is nothing intellectually satisfying about the INC. It’s a farce, but Filipinos are attracted to it nonetheless for the reasons I gave in the other thread.

Blessings
 
read_me said:
Wait, thats not the question, the question is, WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY “Jesus declared that he is god”? If you are just reading the bible, in all content of it, jesus introduce himself as the SON OF GOD and not a son-god. and he always intoduced the only true god, the father, who has sent him. am i right?
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that’s not the question? since when? I asked my questions in the first place, so its your obligation to answer it. Well you’re still not answering my questions huh. I guess I’ll just have to ** accept the fact that there’s really no truth in INC**. You could not give me a simple answer to my questions. If you really are in the truth, then you would not be afraid to give answers to questions raised by you.

Please don’t be like your ministers. They are experts in changing the topic. You see, I told you that you must not change the topic, what did you do? You simply ignored the questions. So don’t be like your ministers and answer my questions, okay?
haha or you just denying it? And now, i see that you are a great joker! because you nakes me laugh! hahaha do you study elementary and etc? Why will be the bible will say what you are asking? that “God is adjective?”
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Yes, I’m a good joker. But I intended to be serious when I asked the questions. Maybe it just made you laugh because INC teachings are really funny. You see, you are laughing not about me, but about your own beliefs.

Well, isn’t it that in John 1:1 you believe that the word “God” is used there as an adjective and not a noun? Are you denying it?

You are unaware that you are laughing about your own beliefs. Please don’t laugh about your own beliefs. Your fellow INC members will get hurt with what you’re doing.

Before asking me if I studied elementary or not, better ask the question to yourself first. You see, you are not fluent in English. You even admit it in another thread here’s what you’ve said
Oh, first i am sorry for that i am not so FLUENT in english, sorry for the terms that cannot understand by others, i will again repeat that i am not FLUENT in english, even other posts that i am reading, i do not much understand the deep english words they are applying.
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so ask yourself first if you’ve studied elementary or not okay?
haha it is how it must understand because the bible is written in the hebrew (correct me if im wrong), and the bible scholars (who are professional in that) proves it.That’s why it has so many version or translation in the bible because of it.
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The Old Testament is written in Hebrew while the New Testament is written in Greek.
And last, do i said that the catholics TRUE doctrine is like 1+1+1=1? It is simple as that giving a test,
TEST: ferdie is the father of jose, and james was the son of jose. they are all in the house. question: how many are there in the house?
what will you answer? 1? haaha
Click to expand...
In short, you simply could not prove that Catholics believe that 1+1+1=1, because you can’t even quote in our catechism. I do not believe that 1+1+1=1, so I don’t have to waste my time on your test whatever.

Please don’t waste my time, like you I also have many things to do okay? So prove to me that it is worthwhile to talk to you.

Questions 1&2 retained. You have no answer for #3
  1. Where in the bible does it say “Jesus is not God”?
  2. Where in John 1:1 does it say that “God is adjective”?
 
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