A
awantz
Guest
If Protestant groups are so unacceptable by the Catholic church, why then do I know Catholics who attend protestant churches?
- Status
U
UKcatholicGuy
Guest
Many Catholics are ignorant of their faith, unfortunately. I used to be the same way. If Catholics knew what they had, they would never leave!
S
spauline
Guest
I would say that there is a way to correllate the various categorizations of religions by Catholicism in the apocalypse, specifically looking at the trumpets.
Clearly, the Seal of God can only properly be given to Catholics, for the only protection from spiritual “harm”, that is, as concerns the “forehead”, or the intellect of the soul, is having the FULL foundation of truth that can only be had when one recognizes the totality of the sources of Divine Truth that God has given. And in Catholicism, these are:
I. The Trinity and Incarnation
II. The Pope
III. The Rest of Bishops and Oral Tradition
IV. The Written Tradition (Scripture)
V. Reason
For if we examine the history of the Church, the major attacks on Her doctrinal development pretty much attack these sources from top to bottom:
To elaborate, the first great wave of heresies were usually attacking the Trinity or Incarnation to one degree or another, which culminated with Islam.
The next great attack after Islam was the Great Schism, which appropriately attacks the Pope, but retains the general Oral Tradition.
The next great attack, and what was also the begininning of a devastating spiritual loss in humanity (and so LIKE a great “Woe”) was Protestantism, which rejected not only the Pope, but the general Oral Tradition, retaining only Scripture.
The next great attack, again another “Woe”, was the so-called “Enlightenment”, which attacked even the notion of Revelation or grace (and hence Scripture) and drew religion down to merely the natural level, hence causing a supernatural death, and retaining only reason as one’s guide to religious truth.
Finally, in the modern day, with either atheism or relativism, even reason is trampled, and religion is basically completely thrown out.
Toward that end, I’d say the five months of torture in the fiirst great woe are a symbol of the five sacraments that heretics lose when they fall into heresy and attack the Eucharist, and I’d say the False Prophet’s two horns are a diabolical plagairizing of the two sacraments of heresy, Baptism and Marriage (where the seven horns of the Lamb are the total seven sacraments), so that Baptism is twisted from making one a child of God to making one a child of the devil, and that Marriage is twisted from total self-giving love and covenant to the selfish and arrogant pursuit of superficial things, that is, like the Whore, to be contrasted with the Chaste Woman, the Church.
just my two cents.
Clearly, the Seal of God can only properly be given to Catholics, for the only protection from spiritual “harm”, that is, as concerns the “forehead”, or the intellect of the soul, is having the FULL foundation of truth that can only be had when one recognizes the totality of the sources of Divine Truth that God has given. And in Catholicism, these are:
I. The Trinity and Incarnation
II. The Pope
III. The Rest of Bishops and Oral Tradition
IV. The Written Tradition (Scripture)
V. Reason
For if we examine the history of the Church, the major attacks on Her doctrinal development pretty much attack these sources from top to bottom:
To elaborate, the first great wave of heresies were usually attacking the Trinity or Incarnation to one degree or another, which culminated with Islam.
The next great attack after Islam was the Great Schism, which appropriately attacks the Pope, but retains the general Oral Tradition.
The next great attack, and what was also the begininning of a devastating spiritual loss in humanity (and so LIKE a great “Woe”) was Protestantism, which rejected not only the Pope, but the general Oral Tradition, retaining only Scripture.
The next great attack, again another “Woe”, was the so-called “Enlightenment”, which attacked even the notion of Revelation or grace (and hence Scripture) and drew religion down to merely the natural level, hence causing a supernatural death, and retaining only reason as one’s guide to religious truth.
Finally, in the modern day, with either atheism or relativism, even reason is trampled, and religion is basically completely thrown out.
Toward that end, I’d say the five months of torture in the fiirst great woe are a symbol of the five sacraments that heretics lose when they fall into heresy and attack the Eucharist, and I’d say the False Prophet’s two horns are a diabolical plagairizing of the two sacraments of heresy, Baptism and Marriage (where the seven horns of the Lamb are the total seven sacraments), so that Baptism is twisted from making one a child of God to making one a child of the devil, and that Marriage is twisted from total self-giving love and covenant to the selfish and arrogant pursuit of superficial things, that is, like the Whore, to be contrasted with the Chaste Woman, the Church.
just my two cents.
M
Missa_Solemnis
Guest
That’s a good way to put it.
S
Syele
Guest
But I’m protestant and when I say ‘liturgical churches’ I’m referring to any church that has a liturgy style service. That includes Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy as well as Epispical and Anglican etc.
V
Vigis
Guest
Well I would put the the branches of Christianity in more, let’s say smoother terms, than calling the rest just heretics and schismatics. I say that their are only two branches of Christianity (in broad terms). Here they are:
1.) Catholicism
2.) Christian Heresy
The reason that I call them (Protestants, Orthodox, etc.) Christian heretics is because they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savoir, and as the Son of God. Now about JW and Mormons I would just call heretics. Same thing for the Moslems one can say. God speed.
1.) Catholicism
2.) Christian Heresy
The reason that I call them (Protestants, Orthodox, etc.) Christian heretics is because they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savoir, and as the Son of God. Now about JW and Mormons I would just call heretics. Same thing for the Moslems one can say. God speed.
T
Tomster
Guest
As recently as 1943, Pope Pius XII declared in his monumental encyclical Mystici Corporis: “They, therefore, walk in the path of dangerous error who believe that they can accept Christ as the Head of the Church, while not adhering loyally to His Vicar on earth. They have taken away the visible head, broken the visible bonds of unity and left the Mystical Body of the Redeemer so obscured and so maimed that those who are seeking the haven of eternal salvation can neither see it nor find it.”
For this reason, Pius XII implored all who would call themselves Christians “to correspond to the interior movements of grace, and to seek to withdraw from that state in which they cannot be sure of their salvation.” Pius XII was warning heretics and schismatics as charitably as he could that they were risking eternal damnation if they did not correspond to grace and enter the Catholic Church.
A
Analyticalpoet
Guest
The reason you see some similarities between Protestantism and Roman Rite Orthodoxy (Catholics) is because they (protestants) broke away from us. High Church Anglicans/Episcoplians, and Lutherans, amoungst limited others retained certain Latin Rites while watering down other facets important to full communion with the Pope. Catholicism is not a hybridization of Orthodoxy, Protestantism is the degeneration of Christianity as is evident with the variety of teachings contradicting orthodoxy and each other.
A
Analyticalpoet
Guest
I would like to point out that both the east and the west have lifted their excommunication with each other. Heresey requires more that just a physical seperation. It requires a substantial difference in Theology. As for the East and the West the Theology is not all that contradictory, therefore are only schismatic and not heretics. As for with Protestantism, it depends with which denomination you are speaking to.
Orthodoxy and Catholicsm are almost one in the same. Protestantism and True Orthodoxy… well as all ready stated it would depend on which denomination you speak about.
A
Analyticalpoet
Guest
These would either fall into Protestant or Schismatics.
C
chrisb
Guest
Wow, you have read St. Photius nor dialogued with Eastern Orthodox have you?
A
a_cermak
Guest
The point of classification into branches these days is more for research and thumb-nail what do they believe type information. 3 branches obviously misses the Oriental Orthodox who are different in significant ways and giving Protestantism only 1 category clearly misses out on the significant differences between different Protestant sects.
Maybe a division like this:
Catholic with Papal Primacy
Catholic without Papal Primacy (would include the Old Roman Catholics and all their splinters)
Oriental Orthodox and all other Chalcedon splinters
Orthodox
Protestants
Seven Sacrament Nicean Protestants
Two Sacrament Nicean Protestants
Fundamentalists (springing from 5 Fundaments movement of 1895)
Mormons
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Anabaptists
Pentecostals
all other Protestants
But even this is not complete. I fear I’m disserving the Armenian Christians, to say nothing of the mishmash I create with the all other Protestants category. And I’ve completely lopped off the Russian Old Believers and their derivatives.
Maybe a division like this:
Catholic with Papal Primacy
Catholic without Papal Primacy (would include the Old Roman Catholics and all their splinters)
Oriental Orthodox and all other Chalcedon splinters
Orthodox
Protestants
Seven Sacrament Nicean Protestants
Two Sacrament Nicean Protestants
Fundamentalists (springing from 5 Fundaments movement of 1895)
Mormons
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Anabaptists
Pentecostals
all other Protestants
But even this is not complete. I fear I’m disserving the Armenian Christians, to say nothing of the mishmash I create with the all other Protestants category. And I’ve completely lopped off the Russian Old Believers and their derivatives.
I
Ignatius
Guest
Don’t forget the others such as the Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses, etc. may not hold to the fundimental Christian Doctrines of the Sole sonship of Christ and His Divinity.
A
a_cermak
Guest
But I’m not sure if you are trying to organize Christianity that you can leave off groups that consider themselves Christian. But that is why I put them each into their own categories because they are clearly different in tangible ways from other Christians.
On the other hand the Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) would more likely fall under the 2 Sacrament Nicean category as they reject the unique beliefs of the Mormons and only consider the Book of Mormon to be supplemental inspired literature rather than Holy Scripture. The other Fundamentalist Mormons (this phrase almost always indicates that the sect still practices polygamy) would probably fall under Mormon though as their theology isn’t really different (other than polygamy).
On the other hand the Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) would more likely fall under the 2 Sacrament Nicean category as they reject the unique beliefs of the Mormons and only consider the Book of Mormon to be supplemental inspired literature rather than Holy Scripture. The other Fundamentalist Mormons (this phrase almost always indicates that the sect still practices polygamy) would probably fall under Mormon though as their theology isn’t really different (other than polygamy).
- Status