Three Catholic Patriarches of Antioch?

[Chris_McAvoy]

I had noticed that there is an ancient idea which previously existed for governoring the church whereby a Pentarchy of Patriarchs (originally a Tetrarchy) governored the Church in Ecumenical councils.

These would be the Patriarchs of Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople and Jerusalem (the last to be added).

Obviously this relationship is defunct for whatever historical reason and only the Pope of Rome appears to have importance today. Would this be why there are allowed to be three Catholic Patriarchs of Antioch existing today whereas there are not allowed to be three Popes of Rome, or are two of the Catholic Patriarchs in fact Anti-Patriarchs?

The three “Catholic” Patriarchs of Antioch are:

Gregory III Laham, Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, Alexandria, and Jerusalem of the Greek Melkites.

Nasrallah Boutros Sfeir, Patriarch of Antioch and All the East of the Maronites.

Until February 2008, the Patriarch of Antioch and All the East of the Syrians was Ignace Pierre VIII Abdel-Ahad (currently vacant

If there is only one true Patriarch of Antioch how can I figure out who he is in order to determine who would play a role in the Pentarchy of the future? I am extremely uncomfortable having three Patriarches or Popes of the same jurisdiction in the same Church.

One of the nice things about the “Eastern Orthodox” Churches is that the only have one Patriarch of Antioch for each communion.

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

Nevermind.

Apparently by some AMAZING coincidence I started this topic without realizing that it was already being discussed by others in the other post.

All my questions are answered there.
Thanks.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I had noticed that there is an ancient idea which previously existed for governoring the church whereby a Pentarchy of Patriarchs (originally a Tetrarchy) governored the Church in Ecumenical councils.

These would be the Patriarchs of Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople and Jerusalem (the last to be added).

Obviously this relationship is defunct for whatever historical reason and only the Pope of Rome appears to have importance today. Would this be why there are allowed to be three Catholic Patriarchs of Antioch existing today whereas there are not allowed to be three Popes of Rome, or are two of the Catholic Patriarchs in fact Anti-Patriarchs?

The three “Catholic” Patriarchs of Antioch are:

Gregory III Laham, Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, Alexandria, and Jerusalem of the Greek Melkites.

Nasrallah Boutros Sfeir, Patriarch of Antioch and All the East of the Maronites.

Until February 2008, the Patriarch of Antioch and All the East of the Syrians was Ignace Pierre VIII Abdel-Ahad (currently vacant

If there is only one true Patriarch of Antioch how can I figure out who he is in order to determine who would play a role in the Pentarchy of the future? I am extremely uncomfortable having three Patriarches or Popes of the same jurisdiction in the same Church.

One of the nice things about the “Eastern Orthodox” Churches is that the only have one Patriarch of Antioch for each communion.

There used to be a fourth, a Latin Patriarch.

And the Melkite is also the patriarch of Alexandria, in addition to the Coptic patriarch in submission to Rome there (NOT a pope, as are the Orthodox counterparts), and of Jerusalem, in addition to the Latin patriarch there.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I had noticed that there is an ancient idea which previously existed for governoring the church whereby a Pentarchy of Patriarchs (originally a Tetrarchy) governored the Church in Ecumenical councils…

Worth exploring… How long and how functioning was the Pentarchy in use? How well did it work? What function did it truely show itself adept at?

One of the nice things about the “Eastern Orthodox” Churches is that the only have one Patriarch of Antioch for each communion.

The flip side of this “niceness” is that you have the choice of either suppressing the other rites extant there in favor of the rite of the patriarch, or having christians of a ritual praxis different from the patriarch losing their patriarchal liturgies…

I really don’t see why this keeps anyone up at night.

Understand, were these Catholic patriarchs NOT in union with the see of Rome, they would otherwise NOT be in communion with each other, and you would have all the same issue of multiple-patriarchs… Happily, however imperfect the situation, at least their is fraternal and charitable brotherhood in communion among them otherwise.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

And the Melkite is also the patriarch of Alexandria, in addition to the Coptic patriarch in submission to Rome there (NOT a pope, as are the Orthodox counterparts), and of Jerusalem, in addition to the Latin patriarch there.

Interesting that you describe yourself as "Orthodox*** in communion with*** the Pope of Alexandria " but Eastern Catholics you often note are “in submission to Rome”.

Polemic semantics.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Interesting that you describe yourself as "Orthodox*** in communion with*** the Pope of Alexandria " but Eastern Catholics you often note are “in submission to Rome”.

Polemic semantics.

Those who have submitted to Rome, and Rome, use that phrase in their documents, and I agree to the accuracy of the statement.

The Church defines my relationship to the Pope of Alexandria in those terms, and I agree to the accuracy of the statement (actually though it is not as direct: I’m under the Patrirach of Antioch right now, who commemorates the Pope of Alexandria in his diptychs. That’s how the Orthodox Catholic, and Early, Church works).

Proper semantics.

 

[mardukm]

Those who have submitted to Rome, and Rome, use that phrase in their documents, and I agree to the accuracy of the statement.

The Church defines my relationship to the Pope of Alexandria in those terms, and I agree to the accuracy of the statement (actually though it is not as direct: I’m under the Patrirach of Antioch right now, who commemorates the Pope of Alexandria in his diptychs. That’s how the Orthodox Catholic, and Early, Church works).

Proper semantics.

So you are in submission to the Patriarch of Antioch, but in communion with the Pope of Alexandria.

What’s the difference?

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Isa_Almisry]

So you are in submission to the Patriarch of Antioch, but in communion with the Pope of Alexandria.

What’s the difference?

Blessings,
Marduk

Rome likes the word submission. We don’t use it, and in the case at bar, since I’m in the Self-Ruled Archdiocese of North America, it wouldn’t be accurate.

And if submission were the issue, I am in submission to both, and to all hiearchs in communion with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church. That’s the idea behind the diptychs.

 

[mardukm]

Rome likes the word submission. We don’t use it, and in the case at bar, since I’m in the Self-Ruled Archdiocese of North America, it wouldn’t be accurate.

And if submission were the issue, I am in submission to both, and to all hiearchs in communion with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church. That’s the idea behind the diptychs.

Thank you for demonstrating how much closer we are to each other as EO and Catholics, as distinct from, say, the Protestants.

Blessings,
Marduk