Three cheers for Fr. Vincent Serpa!

[Tim_Cleveland]

Kinda sounds like practical reasons as opposed to serious theological reasons played the major role in your decision.

I have examined the catholic apologetics from the “heavies” and find it lacking. That is why I left the RCC church after 27 years.

Not at all kaycee. My decision is not based on the easy or convenient thing to do. I mean, I haven’t even told my mom yet. I can already hear her, and that will not be easy or convenient. Rather, in goign to mass with my family, I have had a long time to hear alot of what the church ACTUALLY teaches as opposed to what a Protestant minister says the church teaches. I can honestly say that every time, and there have been many, that I would hear something at mass that I was raised to disagree with, when I went and checked it from the Bible, even my KJV Protestant Bible, nothing was ever contradicted by what was there.

I will say that one of my biggest and final hurdles was the role of tradition in how the church operates and the auhtority of the church and its leaders. But in my study, especially with regard to how the earliest church, behaved, I have to realize that it is all there and encompassed in the Catholic Church. Right down to the veneration of Mary, veneration and prayer to the saints and relics and theirintercession, confession and most of all the TRUE presence of Christ in the Eucharist. It’s all there and very theologically sound.

To chairtably put the ball back in your court, tell us what theology you have found lacking. And by that I mean, what true doctrine of the Catholic church as spelled out in the catechism, not what some liberal theologian may have come up with. Better yet, postthos objections in the “Ask an Apologist” forum and get if fromt he best, in my opinion.

Tim

 

[kaycee]

I will say that one of my biggest and final hurdles was the role of tradition in how the church operates and the auhtority of the church and its leaders. But in my study, especially with regard to how the earliest church, behaved, I have to realize that it is all there and encompassed in the Catholic Church. Right down to the veneration of Mary, veneration and prayer to the saints and relics and theirintercession, confession and most of all the TRUE presence of Christ in the Eucharist. It’s all there and very theologically sound.

So it sounds like your more a traditionalist than a fan of Cardinal Newman?

To chairtably put the ball back in your court, tell us what theology you have found lacking. And by that I mean, what true doctrine of the Catholic church as spelled out in the catechism, not what some liberal theologian may have come up with. Better yet, postthos objections in the “Ask an Apologist” forum and get if fromt he best, in my opinion.

Well in short, the entire concept of the Papacy and its lack of biblical and historical evidence.

The inclusion of the Deutr’s into the Bible.

Certainly, the novel Marian doctrines.

The concept of the Magisterium and the supposed unity it provides.

And certainly the main point of how one is made right with God. It is a Gift by Faith and not a system sacraments.

Other than that, I would feel right at home!

 

[teachccd]

Father Serpa was the head of the altar boys when I served back in the late 1960’s at Saint Dominic Catholic Church in Los Angeles California. He was as great then as he is now!! I try to see him at the family Catholic Conferences when I can and he still remembers me and said that I look the same. I’m 48 so I must have looked like and old 9 year old back then. So, Father Serpa, in this thread to your honor as a fine priest I give you a . Keep up the good work and I hope to see you again soon. You are the coolest!!! teachccd

 

[Tim_Cleveland]

Kaycee

I am by no means an apologist so I would do a horrible job of telling you how I came to grips with these issues. As you might guess, these are some of the most basic issues that I wrestled with as a Protestant. But like I said, this site has great apologists who can answer them for you. Even do a search on the Ask an Apologist forums and you will see those issues have been handled there, multiple times each.

But what I will say is that one of the main issues that I have not only overcome in my mind and heart but have come to absolutely embrace is the devotion to Our Lady. If you have a problem with the Hail Mary, then you have a problem with the gospel. It is there, almost word for word. Part of it is from the Angel who told Mary that she was to give birth to the Messiah. “Hail Mary full of Grace!”. Now here is, an ANGEL, a superior being to humans reverencing her by his language. Calling her “Hail Mary” and ascribing a special level of grace that she has.

The other part is from St. Elizabeth when she was visited by the pregnant Mary. “Blessed is the fruit of your womb.” Here is a Godly woman, as the Bible clearly said, blessed with a Child herself in her old age. And she questions whether she is even worthy of the right to LOOK at Mary. John teh Baptist, in utero recognized her and the Christ she was carrying from her VOICE! Reading this passage from the Gospels, after having heard it a million times as a Protestant, was my “AHAAA” moment with regard to Mary’s proper place in the Church.

You know, if I were “creating” a religion which gave no special place to her at all, I would have left her out of any canon of scripture altogether. Have Christ show up as an adult with no reference to his Mother at all if I wanted to make sure she was not “overly” emphasized. That said, I have a strong feeling that in her humility, she would have been fine with no reference to herself and all reference to her Holy Son. Thank God that we have what we do know of her.

I don’t mean to seem overly dramatic in this regard, and I don’t profess to have had any special revelation, but I trully feel Our Mother’s presence around me in my journey to the church. She is trully calling me! If you have been away from the Church for awhile, and would like a real experience of her presence, I would say find a Catholic church where you are not known by anyone. Go when there is no mass going on. Totally empty. Pick as old a church as you can find. One with a large beautiful Marian shrine or statue. Sit quietly and listen. Don’t go with any prejudice. I am confident that you will find her there calling you. I know I did!

Tim

 

[Church_Militant]

So it sounds like your more a traditionalist than a fan of Cardinal Newman?

Well in short, the entire concept of the Papacy and its lack of biblical and historical evidence.

The inclusion of the Deutr’s into the Bible.

Certainly, the novel Marian doctrines.

The concept of the Magisterium and the supposed unity it provides.

And certainly the main point of how one is made right with God. It is a Gift by Faith and not a system sacraments.

Other than that, I would feel right at home!

Shoot…you can’t even answer my testimony and my path to re-version was opened by an anti-Catholic attack on the Marian beliefs.

Your alleged “lacks” are nothing more than examining the evidence (generally chosen from unfaithful sources that suit your ends) and then raising the bar and stating “It is not enough.”

You like to base your arguments on the comments of dissenting and unfaithful Catholics instead of addressing the facts as to what the Catholic Church really teaches. I’ve seen you do it several times, and your comments above are excellent examples.

You decry Catholic teaching when in fact the case you make is one that opposes what you wish the Catholic Church was and not what it really is, and then you say you can’t understand how we revert or convert to the faith.

Just like Bishop Sheen said,

“Few people in America hate the Catholic religion,
but there are many who hate
what they mistakenly believe is the Catholic religion
—and if what they hate really were the Catholic religion,
Catholics would hate it too.”

 

[Tim_Cleveland]

Father Serpa was the head of the altar boys when I served back in the late 1960’s at Saint Dominic Catholic Church in Los Angeles California. He was as great then as he is now!! I try to see him at the family Catholic Conferences when I can and he still remembers me and said that I look the same. I’m 48 so I must have looked like and old 9 year old back then. So, Father Serpa, in this thread to your honor as a fine priest I give you a . Keep up the good work and I hope to see you again soon. You are the coolest!!! teachccd

Hey Teachccd. I would love to see and hear Father personally and have looked all over for where he might be appearing. I was not sure if he traveled or not and couldn’t find anything. Do you have any information on his schedule? I woudl love to find out where he might be.

Thanks in advance.

Tim

 

[Church_Militant]

…But what I will say is that one of the main issues that I have not only overcome in my mind and heart but have come to absolutely embrace is the devotion to Our Lady. If you have a problem with the Hail Mary, then you have a problem with the gospel. It is there, almost word for word. Part of it is from the Angel who told Mary that she was to give birth to the Messiah. “Hail Mary full of Grace!”. Now here is, an ANGEL, a superior being to humans reverencing her by his language. Calling her “Hail Mary” and ascribing a special level of grace that she has.

The other part is from St. Elizabeth when she was visited by the pregnant Mary. “Blessed is the fruit of your womb.” Here is a Godly woman, as the Bible clearly said, blessed with a Child herself in her old age. And she questions whether she is even worthy of the right to LOOK at Mary. **John the Baptists’, in utero recognized her and the Christ she was carrying from her VOICE! Reading this passage from the Gospels, after having heard it a million times as a Protestant, was my “AHAAA” moment with regard to Mary’s proper place in the Church.
**

You know, if I were “creating” a religion which gave no special place to her at all, I would have left her out of any canon of scripture altogether. Have Christ show up as an adult with no reference to his Mother at all if I wanted to make sure she was not “overly” emphasized. That said, I have a strong feeling that in her humility, she would have been fine with no reference to herself and all reference to her Holy Son. Thank God that we have what we do know of her.

I don’t mean to seem overly dramatic in this regard, and I don’t profess to have had any special revelation, but I truly feel Our Mother’s presence around me in my journey to the church. She is truly calling me! If you have been away from the Church for awhile, and would like a real experience of her presence, I would say find a Catholic church where you are not known by anyone. Go when there is no mass going on. Totally empty. Pick as old a church as you can find. One with a large beautiful Marian shrine or statue. Sit quietly and listen. Don’t go with any prejudice. I am confident that you will find her there calling you. I know I did!

TimWell said and a very very good point.

 

[kaycee]

Shoot…you can’t even answer my testimony and my path to re-version was opened by an anti-Catholic attack on the Marian beliefs.

Your alleged “lacks” are nothing more than examining the evidence (generally chosen from unfaithful sources that suit your ends) and then raising the bar and stating "It is not enough."Well I guess my bar of only being culpable to what the early church believed might be high for some, but maybe thats just me.

You like to base your arguments on the comments of dissenting and unfaithful Catholics instead of addressing the facts as to what the Catholic Church really

 

[Church_Militant]

Well I guess my bar of only being culpable to what the early church believed might be high for some, but maybe thats just me.

Yeah…you’re pretty good at cherry picking your quotes to make your cases and then conveniently excluding the ECFs who plainly support Catholic teaching, and yeah maybe that’s just you.

You mean like the ECF’s and the Catholic historians who agree with protestants and history?

Riiiiight…

What straw men do you see me fighting?

Most every a-C post that you make. Anyone whose known you as long as I have and/or reviews your post history will find the same thing. I know I’m not the only one who reads your propaganda and says…“But that’s not what the Church teaches!”

Why don’t you create some threads on some of these deficiencies in Catholic teaching instead of running around here derailing other people’s threads (Like this one) as you enter a discussion of a holy and faithful priest that has nothing to do with your so-called “issues”? Or is that too much to ask? That you sit down and make a concise and factual case for your “issues” and then deal with them the way they should be?

 

[kaycee]

Kaycee

I am by no means an apologist so I would do a horrible job of telling you how I came to grips with these issues. As you might guess, these are some of the most basic issues that I wrestled with as a Protestant. But like I said, this site has great apologists who can answer them for you. Even do a search on the Ask an Apologist forums and you will see those issues have been handled there, multiple times each.

Thanks Tim for your reply. I understand you have done much study from the Catholic point of view. Have you ever read any of the leading protestant apologists? It does not appear that you have examined the reformation from an educated apologist point of view.

But what I will say is that one of the main issues that I have not only overcome in my mind and heart but have come to absolutely embrace is the devotion to Our Lady. If you have a problem with the Hail Mary, then you have a problem with the gospel. It is there, almost word for word. Part of it is from the Angel who told Mary that she was to give birth to the Messiah. “Hail Mary full of Grace!”. Now here is, an ANGEL, a superior being to humans reverencing her by his language. Calling her “Hail Mary” and ascribing a special level of grace that she has.

Well, certainly she was favored and a wonderful Saint of God and blessed more than all women to be mother to Jesus. I dont see in the scripture all that you have found.

The other part is from St. Elizabeth when she was visited by the pregnant Mary. “Blessed is the fruit of your womb.” Here is a Godly woman, as the Bible clearly said, blessed with a Child herself in her old age. And she questions whether she is even worthy of the right to LOOK at Mary. John teh Baptist, in utero recognized her and the Christ she was carrying from her VOICE! Reading this passage from the Gospels, after having heard it a million times as a Protestant, was my “AHAAA” moment with regard to Mary’s proper place in the Church.

Again all this “Hyper Dulia” detracts from the Glory reserved for God alone.

You know, if I were “creating” a religion which gave no special place to her at all, I would have left her out of any canon of scripture altogether. Have Christ show up as an adult with no reference to his Mother at all if I wanted to make sure she was not “overly” emphasized. That said, I have a strong feeling that in her humility, she would have been fine with no reference to herself and all reference to her Holy Son. Thank God that we have what we do know of her.

I don’t mean to seem overly dramatic in this regard, and I don’t profess to have had any special revelation, but I trully feel Our Mother’s presence around me in my journey to the church. She is trully calling me! If you have been away from the Church for awhile, and would like a real experience of her presence, I would say find a Catholic church where you are not known by anyone. Go when there is no mass going on. Totally empty. Pick as old a church as you can find. One with a large beautiful Marian shrine or statue. Sit quietly and listen. Don’t go with any prejudice. I am confident that you will find her there calling you. I know I did!

Sorry Tim, i cannot follow you. The God breathed scripture is silent concerning many Marian doctrines. The scripture appoints a beautiful but relatively minor part for Mary. I cannot exalt what God Breathed Scripture does not exalt. The focus given to Mary by the RCC is totaly out of proportion i feel. Can you honestly say a rosary knowing that 85% of the prayer is going to Mary and then read the Scripture which is relatively silent about her and not see a discrepancy?

In Christ alone
Brian

 

[Tim_Cleveland]

Thanks Tim for your reply. I understand you have done much study from the Catholic point of view. Have you ever read any of the leading protestant apologists? It does not appear that you have examined the reformation from an educated apologist point of view.

Yes, absolutely I have. In fact I have listened to them all of my life. RC Sproul, Allistair Begg, Ravi Zecharias, Chuck Swindoll and others. I think the reformation brought a lot of great things to the Catholic church as well. I think in large part the Catholic church was “reformed” as well. As I move on, I want to learn more about these issues. I also want to learn more about the things the reformers did NOT think needed to be reformed but have nonetheless been re-reformed by Protestants over the years. Also, you do realize that there are things the reformers wanted reformed, which Protestatnts today don’t think needed to be reformed. Namely that the Bookd of Ruth and James are scripture. I believ it was Luther who called James an “epistle of straw” due to its emphasis on works. Their boithe rthere last I checked my Protestant Bible. Perhaps there are others? I hoep to find out some day.

Well, certainly she was favored and a wonderful Saint of God and blessed more than all women to be mother to Jesus. I dont see in the scripture all that you have found.

Again all this “Hyper Dulia” detracts from the Glory reserved for God alone.

Like I said I am not an apologist and have not become one in the last half hour. But I have done some looking into the original verbage. And “Hail” and “Full of Grace” meant a lot more to the early Christians than they do to us now. This was heady reference to her. Also, I don’t think that the Catholic church ascribes “Glory” or in the Greek “Doxa” kind of glory to Mary. I thinkt that the Chruch does as you say reserve this for God alone. Agone, this is VERY VERY deep etymology and hermeneutics of a level I do not even profess to slightly grasp.

Sorry Tim, i cannot follow you. The God breathed scripture is silent concerning many Marian doctrines. The scripture appoints a beautiful but relatively minor part for Mary. I cannot exalt what God Breathed Scripture does not exalt. The focus given to Mary by the RCC is totaly out of proportion i feel. Can you honestly say a rosary knowing that 85% of the prayer is going to Mary and then read the Scripture which is relatively silent about her and not see a discrepancy?

Again, in Charity, you are arguing Sola Scriptura vs. Tardition and reverence for saints here. Both issues that take a lot of space to cover. But thankfully they have been covered elsewhere on thsi site and other place. Each if us is persuaded differently by the arguments for and against these. I am not at all in a position to add to these arguments candidly. But again, it has been done elsewhere on this site. Suffice to say, I have come to grips with and actually embrace the Catholic viewpoint on these issues ans see a place for Sacred Tradition in proper worship. But this is how I feel led. We only be faithful to our convictions.

In Christ,

Tim

 

[NotWorthy]

This cracked me up NotWorthy!!! You realize that you have 4450 posts and you didn’t know Fr Serpa was the priest in the Ask an Apologist section??? That was too funny!

Perhaps I don’t spend much time in the “Ask the Apologists” section?

 

[teachccd]

Hey Teachccd. I would love to see and hear Father personally and have looked all over for where he might be appearing. I was not sure if he traveled or not and couldn’t find anything. Do you have any information on his schedule? I woudl love to find out where he might be.

Thanks in advance.

Tim

I usually see him annually in Anaheim, California at the Catholic Family Conference. The next one is coming up on July 28 &29. Unfortunately I cannot attend this year. He ususally mans the Catholic Answer booth and I went to him for confession last year. I believe that he has an email address and you can find out his schedule. I can try to find it for you but I think that it is available on this website. Good luck and God Bless…teachccd

 

[Tim_Cleveland]

Thanks, teachccd. I have looked for a schedule of his and haven’t found one. It appears that he does not have a personal website either. If you can come across one, I would appreciate your help.

Thanks,

Tim

 

[Victorious]

This cracked me up NotWorthy!!! You realize that you have 4450 posts and you didn’t know Fr Serpa was the priest in the Ask an Apologist section??? That was too funny!

Not only that, but Fr. Serpa is the new Provincial Promoter of lay Dominicans in the Western Dominican Province.

 

[BlestOne]

Perhaps I don’t spend much time in the “Ask the Apologists” section?

I hope you weren’t offended. If you were, I am sincerely sorry. I guess I just figured because I like to check out his answers…everyone does. Again, my sincere apologies for offending.

 

[Victorious]

Again all this “Hyper Dulia” detracts from the Glory reserved for God alone.

I’m going to take this on, because this is precisely why the Dominican Order exists, and why Fr. Serpa was called to be a Dominican priest.

How can we properly reverence God without recognizing His glory as reflected in His saints, and especially the Blessed Mother, the masterpiece of His creation? Why would God not want us to love what He loves? And why would He want us to diss – of all people – His Mother? Hyperdulia does not detract from the glory reserved for God: it is by definition different from that which is due to God. And just for the record, the Church does not teach, and never has taught, that Mary got where she is on her own power. The Protestant refusal to accept the truth about the special and unique graces granted to her in virtue of the role she was to play in the salvation of mankind amounts to a disbelief in the omnipotence of God.

The God breathed scripture is silent concerning many Marian doctrines. The scripture appoints a beautiful but relatively minor part for Mary. I cannot exalt what God Breathed Scripture does not exalt. The focus given to Mary by the RCC is totaly out of proportion i feel. Can you honestly say a rosary knowing that 85% of the prayer is going to Mary and then read the Scripture which is relatively silent about her and not see a discrepancy?

This is utter nonsense, straight from the mouth of Jimmy Swaggart, who claimed that the Rosary proves Catholics prefer Mary to Jesus ten to one. If I was the devil, I wouldn’t want you to pray the Rosary, either.

As for the notion that Scripture downplays Mary, and that we therefore also ought to downplay her, this is a worldly idea, as well as the result of failing to think things through. God obviously didn’t downplay Mary: He chose her to be the Mother of Jesus. That’s the most important job a woman could have, and a job that important wouldn’t have gone to just anybody. And whom do you think Jesus spent all those years with before He began His ministry? Would you call that “downplaying” Mary? And at whose behest did Jesus perform His first miracle? Does the story of the wedding at Cana paint the picture of a woman without the power to influence God? Oh, and by the way, who do you think St. Luke’s source must have been for all the stuff about the Annunciation, and the Visitation, and the birth of Jesus and His Finding in the Temple?

Incidentally, would I be right in guessing that you disagree that Mary is the Mother of God?

[sign]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8-9[/sign]

 

[NotWorthy]

I hope you weren’t offended. If you were, I am sincerely sorry. I guess I just figured because I like to check out his answers…everyone does. Again, my sincere apologies for offending.

No, I’m not the least bit offended. I find it humorous also that something everyone else assumes is ordinary for people who frequent this site is completely unknown to me.

It’s even funnier when I realize that I drive down the road the same way. It drives my wife nuts that I can pass up something on the road day after day and never notice it (neighborhood signs, new buildings, etc.)

Sometimes I think that I live in my own world, and you guys are just renting space!

 

[NotWorthy]

To think that Catholics worship Mary (as a god) is to accuse Catholics of denying the Trinity.

Who do you think gave you the Doctrine of the Trinity?!?