Three degrees of heaven

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ben_dy,
Are we speaking of the same Apostles? What Apostle called Christ’s life, death, and resurrection “a farce”?
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Thomas comes to mind. How many ridculed the women when they came with their tale?
JS says - as you say - that “The followers of Jesus ran away from Him;” - and, it is true, those who rejected then, and reject now, the miracle of the Eucharist did run away from Him: but far more were those who did not run away, some to the point of martyrdom.
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A lot of Mormons went with Joseph to Martyrdom as well. His Brother died in his arms just minutes before his own death.
Smith continues"…but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." Yet how many had abandoned Smith by this point in Nauvoo? Not a small number - even a number of those who had aided Smith in the founding of his church.
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One word: Judas

Hmmm… another Parallel?
Paul boasted as a fool for Christ: Smith boasted as a fool for himself. There is a great difference.
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In your eyes…

He was mocking people who had left the church on the pretense they could do a better job than he had at holding the people together. The Laws and many others where calling him a fallen prophet. He was “boasting” and using hyperbole to make a point. And what he said was true.

Paul tells us that all seven Churchs in asia (talked about in Rev 1-3) had turned away from him and Apostatized.

2 Tim. 1: 15
15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

These where the people Paul was Boasting against and for the same reasons. If Paul can’t hold the Church together… we’re in big trouble! Yet another Parallel.
If the restored gospel elevates Smith above God
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Above God?

Heck no… God used him merely as a tool to usher in the dispensation.
Abandon the principles of the Gospel? Never. Boast of myself and not of Christ? Never.
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Who ever said “abandon” You need to quit working on the basement and come up and beautify the house of the Lord.

You need to come to the father and quit getting high on Jesus.
 
We worship the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Spirit which IS ONE God.

Stop the Josepholatry and worship God.
 
We beleive in God the eternal father, in his son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost.

Did not Christ Go to our God and his God? They were one in their Godhead.
 
Yet you believe that God was once a man with his own God, that Jesus was chosen by a council of pre-existent spirits to be the saviour and I doubt we can even establish here what LDS truly know about the nature of the Holy Ghost.

I think one God much more correct than a “godhead”. Apparently so did the original LDS church since that is what you will still find in the testimony of the three witnesses and many parts of the BoM.

I believe that God has always been God, the only God and always will be.

No eternal progression or 3 degrees, etc. Just heaven. The beatific vision.
 
You should do your research on Deut 32:7

Where YHWH is given the Inheritance of Israel be a higher God. 😉
 
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Zakuska:
You should do your research on Deut 32:7

Where YHWH is given the Inheritance of Israel be a higher God. 😉
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Deteronomy 32:7:
Think back on the days of old, reflect on the years of age upon age. Ask your father and he will inform you, ask your elders and they will tell you:
 
Well I don’t recognize the doctrinal authority of methodist ministers so intersting though it may be I’ll stick with actual scripture.

God makes it clear that there is NO other God besides him.
 
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Zakuska:
The verse has been intentionaly theologocally mistranslated. (Redacted)

Here is an article on it:
users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/divine_council.htm

Some more talk on it:
christianforums.com/t85124

Methodist minister Margaret barker has a great book about it… the Great Angel: Israels second God.

Barnes and Nobles stocks it.
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I checked out both of your links. They make no connection to Deut 32:7 being “intentionally theologically mistranslated”. Absolutely none! The first one makes a case for Deuteronomy 32:8, but not 32:7.

As far as Deut 32:8 goes, I have no problems with the phrasing “sons of God”. That’s what it says in my Bible. Here’s the footnote from Deuteronomy 32:8

[8] The sons of God: the angels; cf Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7; Psalm 89:6-7. Here the various nations are portrayed as having their respective guardian angels. Cf Daniel 10:20-21; 12:1.
 
Yes sons of God. (El Elyon) or God most high divied out the nations to his 70 sons. YHWH one of his sons got Israel for his inheritance. Later YHWH himself is called God most high. (example Isaiah) However if He had his inheritance given to him by somebody else. There was a higher God then him. Hyper-monotheists have a problem because El Elyon and YHWH are preresented as two seperate divine beings. Two gods.

May I suggest Margarets book for you… Get up on the current Scholarship becuase Isreal was far from Monotheistic

The rendering in your bible has softend the original text by declaring them “Angels”. The original hebrew calls them ‘gods’. Sons of God.

Kind of like Pslams 82 and John 10:30-36.

These where actual divine beings called gods.
 
Margaret is not a very good biblical scholar and really doesn’t understand judaism at all. Read Ginzbergs legends of the Bible. Israel was very monotheistic. (except for the wicked who strayed)

Try the NET Bible, you can see the original greek and hebrew where translators differ and see that obviously this is ridiculous. Just like JS confused Elias and Elijah as different people and MANY have mistakenly created Jehovah from misunderstanding YHWH Margaret fails to realize who Elohim is.

Frankly I’m surprised you champion her book since it completely contradicts the LDS Temple ceremony.
 
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Zakuska:
History proves it. Thats why it was called “the dark ages”.
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In history, I learned that the dark ages was a direct result of the fall of the roman empire, not a result of some “mythical” great apostacy.
 
In the Bible I learned that the fall of the Roman Empire was a result of the Apostasy. And fortold by Daniel and many others.

Dan 11
17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.

Whos the woman that gets “corrupted”? At about the time of Gregory the Great? 😉
 
Once again there is a tendency to overlook the immediate circumstances around apocalyptic writings. Daniel wrote about things that they needed to know back then. He just did it in such a way that we still benefit from reading it today.

Study a little midle east history and then put this book through the contextual “lens” of Judaism and it becomes obvious that Daniel was NOT talking about “the great apostasy”.
 
Actually he was because he is talking about the history and the Kingdoms. This line up directly the the Romans empire in his History and the Image.
 
Actually Daniel was written during the babylonian captivity and the subsequent Persian conquest. It contains references to Alexanders Greece and the Medes as well.

I see no conection with Rome whatsoever.
 
excuse me, it was written ABOUT the babylonian captivity, etc. The actual date it was written in it very much in dispute.
 
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