Three Little Pigs 'too offensive'

[JReducation]

I think one reason Britain may be failing is because the Church of England is failing (although the worldwide Anglican Communion, esp. perhaps in African and certain other places is strengthening).

This is an interesting thought. But how do we explain the failing of our own American society? We don’t have an official religion.

I guess my question is whether or not it’s fair to place the blame at the doorstep the Anglican Church.

I would place the blame at the doorstep of family life, regardless of the religious belief.

Just my two cents.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I think one reason Britain may be failing

Failing at what exactly?

 

[Hastrman]

As to their just desserts, I believe that’s unkind. Catholic nations have done their fair share of persecutions, including persecuting our own. Let’s not forget the Inquisition.

Which, the Albigensian Inquisition?

The one that gave grace periods of two weeks during which you could confess with no legal penalties being assessed against you?

Where your known enemies’ testimony was inadmissable?

Where torture could not be used as a punishment but only as an interrogation tool (twelfth century, remember)?

Where coerced testimony had to be repeated in the certified absence of coercion?

We did murder Joan of Arc and later canonized her.

Uh, no, the English murdered Joan of Arc and we (I’m part French) canonized her.

Innocent III sent Crusaders into Palestine.

In a war of self-defense, at the request of the ruler of Palestine, Alexius (VII?) of Byzantium.

We also murdered most of the Native American population in South America. The only survivors were those who agreed to be baptized.

La Leyenda Negra, yet! Do you know a dang thing about South America? Most of their Indian population is alive and well; the Spanish killed a tiny minority, and a slight majority died of diseases. Here in Arizona, the Hopi had an armed uprising against the Spanish–they murdered Franciscans!!!–and the Spanish let it go. You really think the conquistadores would even break a sweat taking out the entire Hopi tribe?

On the other hand, there are very few Indians on the East Coast, where your English friends had their colonies.

The whole “moral equivalency” thing, whether it’s Kurt Vonnegut saying Dresden made us as bad as the Nazis, or the left during the entire Cold War, or this bizarre goyische Salbsthassen, is disgusting.

 

[JReducation]

Which, the Albigensian Inquisition?

The one that gave grace periods of two weeks during which you could confess with no legal penalties being assessed against you?

Where your known enemies’ testimony was inadmissable?

Where torture could not be used as a punishment but only as an interrogation tool (twelfth century, remember)?

Where coerced testimony had to be repeated in the certified absence of coercion?

Uh, no, the English murdered Joan of Arc and we (I’m part French) canonized her.

In a war of self-defense, at the request of the ruler of Palestine, Alexius (VII?) of Byzantium.

La Leyenda Negra, yet! Do you know a dang thing about South America? Most of their Indian population is alive and well; the Spanish killed a tiny minority, and a slight majority died of diseases. Here in Arizona, the Hopi had an armed uprising against the Spanish–they murdered Franciscans!!!–and the Spanish let it go. You really think the conquistadores would even break a sweat taking out the entire Hopi tribe?

On the other hand, there are very few Indians on the East Coast, where your English friends had their colonies.

The whole “moral equivalency” thing, whether it’s Kurt Vonnegut saying Dresden made us as bad as the Nazis, or the left during the entire Cold War, or this bizarre goyische Salbsthassen, is disgusting.

I’m not going to argue these points one by one, because the point that I’m trying to make is that the moral and social derailment of society is not an English problem. It’s a worldwide problem.

But I will add one thing to this, just for clarification. I am a Spanish Jew and I have spent most of my life working with and in Latin America in Catholic missions. As you say, there was much killing on the part of the Native Americans both in North America and South America.

However, this does not exhonorate the Catholic nations, especially Spain and Portugal of their own behaviours toward the natives.

If I understood the poster correctly the observation was that British society is suffering a moral decline because the Anglican communion was not doing its job. And the idea that they were getting justice because of the Catholics that they killed. My point was that Catholics have done their fair share of killing.

In one of the early letters written by the Friars Minor it tells the story of how St. Francis went to the East as a missionary and of his sorrow for the Muslim’s suffering at the hand of the Crusaders.

My point is that moral decline is rarely the fault of any church. It’s a social problem which often the churches are unable to contain. Even in our own church, there were many issues that were of political and sociological etiology, not simply religious.

I still disagree with pointing the finger at the Brits or any single nation when the entire world is in a horrible moral crisis.

 

[Hastrman]

But I will add one thing to this, just for clarification. I am a Spanish Jew and I have spent most of my life working with and in Latin America in Catholic missions. As you say, there was much killing on the part of the Native Americans both in North America and South America.

No, there was not “much killing” on the part of the Natives. But the Spanish saw that abuses led to the Pueblo uprisings, and withdrew their presence. The English would have poisoned them.

You might want to ask the Irish or the Australian aborigines–or the Powhattan, except you can’t because they’re all dead–what it’s like to cross the English.

However, this does not exhonorate the Catholic nations, especially Spain and Portugal of their own behaviours toward the natives.

Which, creating the first human rights legislation in human history and making it illegal to enslave them? Or throwing down the Aztec Empire–so the non-Aztec Nahuas stopped getting skinned alive and eaten?

In one of the early letters written by the Friars Minor it tells the story of how St. Francis went to the East as a missionary and of his sorrow for the Muslim’s suffering at the hand of the Crusaders.

Well, that was the Third Crusade. The first was wholly and exclusively a war of self-defense (as far as the grand strategy went; why each person chose to go was unique). And maybe you’d like to know what the Turks did after battles?

Here’s a hint: Vlad Tepes scared them because he was persistent, and not afraid of them, not because he was brutal.

I still disagree with pointing the finger at the Brits or any single nation when the entire world is in a horrible moral crisis.

Yes, but arguably it comes from copying England.

 

[mschrank]

…Which, creating the first human rights legislation in human history and making it illegal to enslave them? Or throwing down the Aztec Empire–so the non-Aztec Nahuas stopped getting skinned alive and eaten?

Thank you for mentioning this! What many people don’t know is that the concept of Human Rights, that is, rights people have as human beings and not as members of a particular religion, were invented by late-scholastic Spanish Catholics, mostly clergy, after the beginning of the Conquest of the Americas.

The slave owners and those others who would profit from enslavement and genocide argued that since the natives were non-christians, then they did not deserve any rights- that they were incapable of reason and should be enslaved and abused. Against the abuses going on, the Church and those said philosophers and lawmakers argued that human beings, by their nature and according to natural law, indeed had inalienable rights and there was no such thing as a ‘born slave’.

Of course, the Modernist Machine likes to tell us that Human Rights were invented more than 100 years later by Dutch Protestants and Humanists like Grotius, when this is far from the truth!

 

[HollyDolly]

Forget the Three Little Pigs,it is the failure of parents and
schools to properly teach history to the kids of today.
My parents were always talking about current events or other things.My dad even came to school for us three kids.For me,he talked about Okinawa when we were studying the Pacific.And when my brother and sister were studying about Africa and World War 2,he came and talked to their classes and brought money and other items he saved from his time there during the war. I am trying to learn more about his family in Germany
and their involvement in history.Want to learn about my mother’s relatives in Hungary too. Slow going since both parents are dead
and there is of course the language barrier.
I have always enjoyed history , and sometimes wondered if the military tradtion in my father’s family in Germany goes way back to the days when the Germanic tribes fought the Romans and other groups.Or if any of momma’s kin were Attila the Hun’s right hand man.

The Spanish and other colonial powers were not always kind to the natives. And neither was the Catholic Church,let’s be honest.Both Protestants and Catholics went around killing each other in the name of God.
I just don’t understand why Catholics,and yes I am one,try to sweep the sins of the Church under the rug and pretend they don’t exist.We have given much good to the world and wonderful saints,like St.Francis of Assi,Vincent de Paul,Thomas More,
Katherine Drexel,etc. And yet the Church under the leadership of some of the past popes,have caused terrible misery too.

All societies have inflicted pain on others different from themselves and will continue to do so till the end of time.
The failure in Britian is not just because of the Anglican Church,but society in general. Many of these kids today are the product of parents who were part of the Hippie Generation of the 60s and 70s.Do your own thing,etc what ever that might be. People are getting ruder and cruder and now they even offer classes in business ettiqute because the way one should act in polite society is no longer being taught at home. So many of today’s parents are only concerned about ME.Why do you think some of these people have been married 2,3, or more times.
MY parents often argued over money and had other issues,but their marriage lasted for 27 years till momma died in 1982.My dad never remarried either.
They took an interest in who our friends were,where we went,etc.
Most of these parents could care less about the kids,and expect everyone else to raise them.Not all of course,but far too many.
This all has to do with the breakdown of the family and society in general.

 

[JReducation]

HollyDolly’s post No. 27 says it all. It’s excellent.

I just want to highlight a few salient points that she makes. Human beings have always sinned, regardless of where they come from or what religion they may subscribe to. We may as well accept the fact that sin is like weeds in a garden. You take care of one over here and another will sprout over there. Therefore, we must keep tending the garden. This applies to tending society, our families and ourselves.

Holly also points out something that is very important. Catholics have inflicted their fair share of pain on the world. It would be futile to sweep it under the rug. The dirt doesn’t go away just because you hide it. In a sense, we have all contributed to the current world situation, including Catholics. We have not been innocent bystanders in world affairs. The one time when we did stand by, may have been the one that we should not have done so. Let’s not forget John Paul’s apology on the Holocaust and his deliberate outreach to the Jews.

The issue is that this is all history. You can’t go back and change any of it, nor can you hide it. As Holly says, we have made significant contributions to the world. She mentioned people such as Francis, Drexel, and De Sales. I’ll just add hospitals, universities, elementary schools, orphanages, and centres of culture. The same thing must be said about the British and other groups, including the Muslims.

If we’re going to discuss current events in a fair way, we have to recognize our own sinfulness and extol the virtues of our neighbour. It’s very easy to extol our virtues and point to the sinfulness of our neighbour.

As HollyDolly rightly says, the family infrastructure is failing. I have ministered to youth since 1973 on three continents and four countries, including several states in the USA. I have seen the changes in family life and the impact on their children.

Holly, you pointed out that many of these children are products of a generation of parents who give and do not hold kids accountable. You also pointed out how your Dad, God bless him, was involved in your school functions. I can tell you that today’s parents only show up for school functions when they want to plan a fancy ball for the kids or when they have a complaint. There are some parents who are very engaged in PTO. However, given the numbers of youngsters in our schools the parental involvement is disproportionate.

One interesting thread that repeats itself in middle-class society, in North America, Europe and South America, is the sense of entitlement that our young have. I mention those three groups, because I have lived with and seen it.

The world is not in crisis because of the Brits, the Arabs, the Americans, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims or Jews. It’s in crisis because we have handed our younger generation a set of rights and accommodations that they are entitled to, without the duties that go with these rights.

 

[HollyDolly]

Thanks for your kind remarksJReducation.
My parents always told us kids the world doesnt owe you a living.If you want to go and get anywhere in life,you have to work for it. And kids aren’t being taught that at home.
These PCers will reap what they sow,and hopefully I’ll be dead by that time,or so old I’ll care less cause the end will be coming.
I wish there was a way to undo all this stuff before it’s too late,but not sure where to start.

 

[Wolseley]

Most people don’t realize this, but Prince Charles is basically a Muslim. He is only nominally Anglican, and the population knows this.

So, when Mum dies, is it likely that he’ll end up being the 1st Grand Sultan of Britainistan?

 

[LDNCatholic]

So, when Mum dies, is it likely that he’ll end up being the 1st Grand Sultan of Britainistan?

No.

That will be William.

 

[valient_Lucy]

My none too subtle take here.

The first three paragraphs from the BBC; (emphasis mine)

**Three Little Pigs ‘too offensive’ **

A story based on the *Three Little Pigs *fairy tale has been turned down by a government agency’s awards panel as the subject matter could offend Muslims. The digital book, re-telling the classic story, was rejected by judges who warned that “the use of pigs raises cultural issues”.

Becta, the government’s educational technology agency, is a leading partner in the annual Bett Award for schools.

The CD-Rom digital version of the traditional story of the three little pigs, called Three Little Cowboy Builders, is aimed at primary school children. But judges at this year’s Bett Award said that they had “concerns about the Asian [moslem] community and the use of pigs raises cultural issues”.

Not only can it offend the Muslims, it’s blatantly Anti-Semitic, because Jews don’t eat pigs either! Not to mention, the wolf is a metaphor for men with loose sexual morals, so the story is also filled with sexual innuendo! It also favors the brick layers, over straw or sticks. Bricks are closely associated with stones, therefore the entire story is Anti-Semitic, Anti-Muslim, Masonic propaganda with strong sexual overtones!!! :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:

 

[JamesN]

Three Little Pigs

fairy tale has been turned down by a government agency’s awards panel as the subject matter could offend Muslims. The digital book, re-telling the classic story, was rejected by judges who warned that “the use of pigs raises cultural issues”.

Here’s a related story that folks might find interesting.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7241296.stm

From what I can gather, despite the obviously disrespectful nature of the product (and on the manufacturer’s website there are a lot more), the streets of Singapore have not been overrun with hot headed Christians demanding bloody revenge. But if the slogan had said, “Lookin’ good for Muhammad”, with a cartoon of him being thronged by pretty girls, what would the reaction have been?

 

[Booklover]

When I was still in Saudi Arabia. I used to wear my favorite white Swiss Military t-shirt with a big white cross to work. I did that just to drive the Saudi mad. Almost everyone in the building could see it. I could afford to do that because I had armed guard. Off work, I would never do that especially in the chop-chop square or around Riyadh.

Proud to Be An Infidel!

Vickie