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Nec5
Guest
It shouldn’t. Christ was what we would consider “submissive” to us (washing our feet, etc) of his own will and there is no more powerful thing than that.
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Litcrit
Guest
I agree. Mutual respect and submission - renouncing our own will to the other’s - are beneficial for us.
Yet, how often are men reminded that Paul ordered them to love their wives as Christ loved His Church - washing the disciples’ feet, giving His body up to torture, yielding meekly to humiliation, sacrificing Himself to the death? How often are husbands admonished to follow this example in their families and be meek, humble, and sacrificial?
I suppose this is what makes “submission” sound like a dirty word - because it has been abused so often to make it sound like husbands are supposed to be lording over their wives - which is not how Christ loves His church.
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28562
Guest
How is it that women get so bent out of shape over one little word when the very next few verses of the same book tell us men that we are required to sacrifice our entire life for you women?
Sounds like we got the raw end of this deal, not yall.
Sounds like we got the raw end of this deal, not yall.
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Litcrit
Guest
How often are men told off for not sacrificing their entire lives to their wives? How often are they admonished to not allow secular culture to influence their marriage by trying to lord over their wives, instead of sacrificing for them to the death? How often are they told that this attempt at being “the boss” in their marriages is just secular patriarchal culture, and not true Christianity?How is it that women get so bent out of shape over one little word when the very next few verses of the same book tell us men that we are required to sacrifice our entire life for you women?
Sounds like we got the raw end of this deal, not yall.
Perhaps if they were constantly told this in a dismissive and reprimanding tone, they might get a bit bent out of shape and start insisting that this should not be interpreted so literally and that it might be a bit of a Jewish hyperbole, and not a precept for actually living day-to-day lives in our actual marriages, and instead honor and respect and love each other.
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Barish
Guest
I agree, God’s will is hard.
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28562
Guest
How often are men told off for not sacrificing their entire lives to their wives? How often are they admonished to not allow secular culture to influence their marriage by trying to lord over their wives, instead of sacrificing for them to the death? How often are they told that this attempt at being “the boss” in their marriages is just secular patriarchal culture, and not true Christianity?
**Shall I do a search for threads where women are bashing their husbands (or the husbands of other women) for being selfish in one way or another? I bet I could find more than a few.Then you could see how often it really happens… **
…not a precept for actually living day-to-day lives in our actual marriages, and instead honor and respect and love each other.
So you don’t really believe that men are called to love their wives as Christ loves his church?
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etomaria
Guest
I would say it is. We’ll always be dealing with imperfection, but ours is to make sure that our own reactions are in line with what God has told us to do… In this case, lovingly submit. Obviously the exact dynamic’ll vary from couple to couple, it doesn’t need to be carried to fanaticism, but the idea holds true for all. [just a disclaimer- this is as hard for me as anyone, being a naturally my-way-or-the-highway type…]
-Maria
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heart4home
Guest
So just to clarify. You disagree with my view that we should submit to God’s divine plan and God’s will? Because that was what I said.
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heart4home
Guest
I agree with this.
However, there are many days I’m not worthy of my husband loving me as Christ loves the Church either. I am in a bad mood, I unfairly criticize him, etc. etc. Should he stop loving me?
There are some who use the unworthy reasoning for other areas of our Christian walk as well, like when we feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, visit the imprisoned.
On an average day, many of us seem not worthy, but those are feelings. When we follow our feelings, instead of the truths taught to us by our Lord, and His Church we usually end up in a big mess.
I really believe submitting is misunderstood. It’s just a word. It doesn’t mean oppress. It means acknowledging who your husband was created to be in God.
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etomaria
Guest
I think women are told this often because, as a whole in today’s culture, we’ve lost sight of it completely. It’s nothing to be offended about, sort of like if one is very, say, selfish, then they’ll probably hear criticism on that fault quite often. It doesn’t mean that they can dismiss it, thinking the problem lies in others’ perceptions and out-of-touch ideas, it means that there’s quite probably something to it! Men, as a group and in my experience, have retained their devotion to making their wives happy, ie loving them. This is probably why one doesn’t hear as much complaining/advice/chastising/what have you on the topic of men needing to get better in line with their half of the “deal”…
This is, of course, decidedly NOT the case in abusive relationships of any kind. And, again, for humility’s sake I suppose, I have all! kind! of problems with being submissive. It’s not natural for me and doesn’t seem to be getting easier with time, ha!
-Maria :]
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severus68
Guest
You said a lot more than that. I have no issue to submitting to God, I have an issue when God’s plan is said to be the wife submitting to the husband as I would if anyone said it was the husband submitting to the wife.
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28562
Guest
So you take offense to men being told to sacrifice themselves and their lives completely for their wives? You take offense to men being told to be servants of their wives?
Jesus DIED for his people. He suffered abuse and pain for us. Jesus lived his life in complete service of others…the people of his church…even those that he KNEW would hate and reject him. Jesus did not live his life for himself at all…only for others!
If we truly love our wives like Christ loves his church, this is what we are called to do. And you really think that ‘submitting’ is harder or more offensive than that?
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severus68
Guest
Too many think that a man can be anyway like Christ.
Sorry but I have no idea what you are trying to say other than ranting at me. Live your marriage how you want, please do not presume to preach to me.
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heart4home
Guest
Here’s what I said…
I can understand your confusion and even resentment when you have a husband that is not loving you the way Christ loves the Church. Truthfully, I doubt many of us have a husband that is fully capable of that, but if they aren’t even trying…well…it can make you angry and it can hurt. **Here I should have been more general and not made assumptions about her husband being like this, but I seem to recall from past posts that was part of the problem, but I was really only offering it’s not easy if you have a husband that doesn’t love you like Christ loves the Church and that I would understand confusion or resentment over it **
I do like the part in this article though where it talks about surrendering to God’s divine plan. Realizing we don’t always know what is best for ourselves is sometimes a huge break through in our own faith journey.** Do you disagree that we don’t always know what is best for us?**Try and remember that God does use wives to sanctify their husbands. **Do your disagree that God does use wives to sanctify their husbands? The Bible tells us He does.**Your submission is much more about you following God’s divine plan, then it has to do with your husband. I am no expert, nor am I a perfect submissive wife, but I am seeing how God can use me and I’m learning to submit to His Will even in my marriage. This is where I talked about following God’s plan and God’s Will
I also see that people often carry these same, they know best about THEIR marriage, thoughts over into areas like contraception, truly believing they know better than God, better than the Church about what is best for their marriage. This is really nothing to do with the topic I admit, but I do see the We Know Better than the Church and God all the time, not only in the world, but here on CAF
Many people then begin to say or feel the same about abortion.
The truth is though, that we can do what we THINK is best for our marriage, but if it goes against God’s teachings, then it likely is not what is best for our own or our husband’s souls?** Do you disagree with this? That if we go against God’s teachings then it is likely not best for our own or our husband’s souls?
**
I’m just trying to get more than a one line reply from you that shares what you exactly disagree with.
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28562
Guest
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28562
Guest
This is what you said…
So obviously, you must have an issue with how God tells men to be towards their wives? God calls us to serve you women and sacrifice our needs and wants for you…sounds a lot like submitting to me!
And, BTW, that was far from a rant. Sorry if it seemed that way…
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severus68
Guest
What you responded to was a response to another poster.
“you women”?
I did say marriage was about mutual submission.
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28562
Guest
Submission is okay or
?
But I guess none of it matters anyway, because a man can’t be anything like Christ.
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buffalo
Guest
What is Love and Respect?
We believe love best motivates a woman and respect most powerfully motivates a man. Research reveals that during marital conflict a husband most often reacts when feeling disrespected and a wife reacts when feeling unloved. We asked 7,000 people this question: when you are in a conflict with your spouse or significant other, do you feel unloved or disrespected? 83% of the men said "disrespected." 72% of the women said, "unloved." Though we all need love and respect equally, the felt need differs during conflict, and this difference is as different as pink is from blue! [Read more...](http://loveandrespect.com/about-us/)
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HoosMommie
Guest
This is such an interesting discussion. Thank you OP for posting this thread. Here is how it is in our home: My husband is not a believer, but he is a fine man, generous, kind, loving, and strong (not to mention kinda cute). When there is a decision to be made, usually entailing a major purchase of one variety or another, we talk about the pros and cons of the [purchase]. After discussion, a decision is made on the merits of the discussion. BUT, and it’s a big but, the NO wins. If either of us votes no, that is the deal breaker. Period. However, I follow his lead in most things because he is a smart man who shows good judgment. In no way do I think this diminishes me. We’ve had nearly 34 years of a wonderful marriage, complete with ups and downs, sickness and health, sorrows and joys. But in all things there is respect for the other person. Even if I vehemently disagree with him, I treat him sweetly and kindly. He in turn affords me the same treatment. And this is with a nonbeliever. Think how much better it would be with someone who held the same beliefs that I hold. I gladly submit to this man. Just so you don’t misunderstand, we have had a few little knock-down drag-outs over the years, but we always understand that there is love under all this and making up is very sweet. Choose well, treat kindly.
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