Three questions about racism

[PseuTonym]

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#1 “I would like to marry a Japanese-American woman. I don’t know any Japanese-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #1 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#2 “I would like to marry an African-American woman. I don’t know any African-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #2 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#3 “Don’t tell me that John Smith is a racist. I know him. He’s a white guy and he’s married to an African-American woman. Therefore, he’s not a racist.”

Is #3 a racist statement, an example of faulty reasoning, or an example of good reasoning?

 

[mikekle]

That is not racism, that is racial preference, nothing more, nothing less, it would be the same as one guy liking red cars and another liking blue cars, there is no ‘right choice’ or better choice, it just comes down to personal preferences.

Racism is when you believe your race or some race is better, or should be more dominant than another for any reason.

 

[Rhubarb]

Fetish-izing a race in manner that you objectify the person is problematic. I don’t know if I’d call it “racist” because we all associate racism as hate. But it’s still bad behavior.

#3 isn’t racist, but it’s not good reasoning. There are plenty of potential counterexamples that would refute it. For instance “John Smith is married to an African-American woman. He married her 20 years ago, but has since become a horrible racist. He hates her now. But he won’t get a divorce.”

 

[JonNC]

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#1 “I would like to marry a Japanese-American woman. I don’t know any Japanese-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #1 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#2 “I would like to marry an African-American woman. I don’t know any African-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #2 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#3 “Don’t tell me that John Smith is a racist. I know him. He’s a white guy and he’s married to an African-American woman. Therefore, he’s not a racist.”

Is #3 a racist statement, an example of faulty reasoning, or an example of good reasoning?

Racism definition. - the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

While racial preference may be symptomatic of racism, it isn’t itself racism.

There are, all of a sudden over the last 10 days, things and people being called racism that are not.

 

[po18guy]

We’ve lost our minds over “racism” as of late. I have experienced it on various occasions and of course it does not sit well with me. I have confronted those individuals and told them in no uncertain terms that I hate racism and I hate racists. I told them to get away from me. One fellow crossed the street, pondered for about 10 minutes and came back to apologize - which I immediately accepted. I told him that human hearts are the same color.

I was judged because I am white.

 

[BornInMarch]

It depends on WHY the man in question wants to marry a Japanese or African American woman.

Remember that racism can come in many forms, and one of them is turning race into a sexual fetish.

 

[PseuTonym]

It depends on WHY the man in question wants to marry a Japanese or African American woman.

Remember that racism can come in many forms, and one of them is turning race into a sexual fetish.

If a bisexual woman wants to marry a man, then is it possible that she is turning the sexual category “male” into a sexual fetish? In other words, is it possible that she has a sexual fetish that is responsible for her desire to marry a man, and that she is a sexist?

Suppose that a man wants to ensure that he marries a woman who isn’t a bisexual. Is his precaution against marrying a sexist acceptable, or is it possible that he is deceiving himself, and that he has an orientationist fetish for straight women?

 

[Qoeleth]

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#1 “I would like to marry a Japanese-American woman. I don’t know any Japanese-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #1 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#2 “I would like to marry an African-American woman. I don’t know any African-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #2 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#3 “Don’t tell me that John Smith is a racist. I know him. He’s a white guy and he’s married to an African-American woman. Therefore, he’s not a racist.”

Is #3 a racist statement, an example of faulty reasoning, or an example of good reasoning?

You are completely overlooking something important- falling in love. It’s not planned. A white man might fall in love with Japanese, or a black woman, etc. Or Japanese man might fall in love with a white woman, etc., etc.

But you don’t decide you are going to marry a person of a particular race before falling in love with an actual individual. That would be stupid and ludicrous.

Yes, it is true that some people have a greater propensity to be attracted to women of certain races. I don’t think this is really ‘racism’ as such.

Statement 3 is just stupid and ignorant. Being married to a person of another race is certainly no indication about racism, or the lack thereof.

 

[Lea101]

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#1 “I would like to marry a Japanese-American woman. I don’t know any Japanese-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #1 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#2 “I would like to marry an African-American woman. I don’t know any African-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #2 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#3 “Don’t tell me that John Smith is a racist. I know him. He’s a white guy and he’s married to an African-American woman. Therefore, he’s not a racist.”

Is #3 a racist statement, an example of faulty reasoning, or an example of good reasoning?

Racial preference isn’t racist…but i guess it depends on why you have them (my brother does not want to date women from a particular race because of the culture of that race). However, he didn’t say he will only date women from a specific race…

However, fetishism is subtly racist. Many WOC have been fetishised (is that a word?). Especially Asians and Black women, so the two statements need some background info IMO? I’m just saying, I would be a bit uncomfortable if I know my husband specifically wanted to date women from my race

Having a black friend, wife etc does not mean a person not racist. In fact the excuse of “I’m not racist, I have a black ____” is so laughable amongst minority groups that it’s actually a joke we all use now. It is not a racist statement (strictly statement-wise, not if the guy is really racist or not) it’s just stupid

 

[mikekle]

We’ve lost our minds over “racism” as of late. I have experienced it on various occasions and of course it does not sit well with me. I have confronted those individuals and told them in no uncertain terms that I hate racism and I hate racists. I told them to get away from me. One fellow crossed the street, pondered for about 10 minutes and came back to apologize - which I immediately accepted. I told him that human hearts are the same color.

I was judged because I am white.

Thats easy, if one does not learn from their past mistakes, they are doomed to repeat them, its pretty clear racism is a big problem today, it was not that long ago that laws existed in support of slavery…we have a LONG way to go.

 

[kozlosap]

In the last several months, the documented fact that the hate filled and raciest groups such as the KKK and white nationalist/supremists have come out of their respective rat holes is disturbing. What do we tell our impressionable young children and teens about this development? The President-elect, at least to me, has not shown any overt racism, but by surrounding yourself with “iffy” consultants, you cause those on the outside to wonder. One only needs to read www.breitbart.com or the Senate testamony of the proposed Attorney General during his Senate confirmation hearings in the '80’s to discover what I’m referring to. Those of us who “thought” that the days of Jim Crow are long gone, are seriously frightened. Yes, I’m an old (63) white high school teacher living on the West Coast, so my bubble was very ingrained. Today, during mass, we prayed for racism and xenophobia to end. Once again, yes, I attend a huge Jesuit parish so praying for real social justice is a very normal part of our liturgy. Hopefully, praying to end hate and distrust will be part of every mass in every state and city.

 

[Kanade]

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#1 “I would like to marry a Japanese-American woman. I don’t know any Japanese-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #1 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#2 “I would like to marry an African-American woman. I don’t know any African-American women, but I would like to meet one and marry her.”

Is #2 a racist statement? It expresses a specific racial preference. If a racial preference isn’t racist, then what is it?

Suppose that an adult, white male says,
#3 “Don’t tell me that John Smith is a racist. I know him. He’s a white guy and he’s married to an African-American woman. Therefore, he’s not a racist.”

Is #3 a racist statement, an example of faulty reasoning, or an example of good reasoning?

No, it’s not racist. Some people have an aesthetic preference for people of a certain heritage, in the same way as someone might say that they prefer blondes or brunettes or whatever.

It might not be a particularly healthy way of viewing relationships, and it’s pretty creepy to be on the receiving end of it, but it’s not racist.

The third question is an example of non-reasoning. Who you’re married to has no bearing on whether you’re a racist. He might have married a black woman but hates Asians.

 

[JonNC]

In the last several months, the documented fact that the hate filled and raciest groups such as the KKK and white nationalist/supremists have come out of their respective rat holes is disturbing. What do we tell our impressionable young children and teens about this development? The President-elect, at least to me, has not shown any overt racism, but by surrounding yourself with “iffy” consultants, you cause those on the outside to wonder. One only needs to read www.breitbart.com or the Senate testamony of the proposed Attorney General during his Senate confirmation hearings in the '80’s to discover what I’m referring to. Those of us who “thought” that the days of Jim Crow are long gone, are seriously frightened. Yes, I’m an old (63) white high school teacher living on the West Coast, so my bubble was very ingrained. Today, during mass, we prayed for racism and xenophobia to end. Once again, yes, I attend a huge Jesuit parish so praying for real social justice is a very normal part of our liturgy. Hopefully, praying to end hate and distrust will be part of every mass in every state and city.

I am not aware of any “iffy” consultants.
In tandom with the appearance of some unsavory racist groups who are white is the much greater presence BLM . Both of these groups, KKK and BLM, should be condemned with equal intensity for their racist, separatist rhetoric.

 

[PseuTonym]

raciest groups such as the KKK and white nationalist/supremists

To quote Google:
“Did you mean racist?”

I presume that you didn’t mean the superlative of “racy.”
(racy, racier, reciest)
racy: risqué, suggestive, naughty, sexy, spicy, ribald

I think that PETA is probably more racy than the KKK, considering the “I’d rather go naked than wear fur” campaign.

Japan’s Kinki University changed its name, so perhaps I can be excused for drawing attention to this matter of spelling.

 

[kozlosap]

If you can honestly conflate BLM with the KKK, then we obviously live on different planets and will never ever understand each other’s point of view. I can’t think of one single incident where a person who was not a person of color or Jewish was lynched by BLM or PETA.

I apologize for the spelling error, even as an educated coastal social elitest, I still need to use spell check.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

If you can honestly conflate BLM with the KKK, then we obviously live on different planets and will never ever understand each other’s point of view. I can’t think of one single incident where a person who was not a person of color or Jewish was lynched by BLM or PETA.

I apologize for the spelling error, even as an educated coastal social elitest, I still need to use spell check.

Yes, I can honestly equate BLM with the KKK.
Both use violent tactics, outright lies, and manufactured outrage to get their point across.
And both of them are calling for segregation/separatism.

BLM groups in my area have advocated for the harming of police officers and of white people who live in the inner city, as we "don’t belong there"and there has been (isolated for now) violence toward them in my community, including assault & murder for no other reason than the color of someone’s skin (a white person) being in a neighborhood where they “didn’t belong”.

The BLM movement is just as much a terrorist organization as the KKK, Aryan Nation and ISIS.

 

[JonNC]

Yes, I can honestly equate BLM with the KKK.
Both use violent tactics, outright lies, and manufactured outrage to get their point across.
And both of them are calling for segregation/separatism.

BLM groups in my area have advocated for the harming of police officers and of white people who live in the inner city, as we "don’t belong there"and there has been (isolated for now) violence toward them in my community, including assault & murder for no other reason than the color of someone’s skin (a white person) being in a neighborhood where they “didn’t belong”.

The BLM movement is just as much a terrorist organization as the KKK, Aryan Nation and ISIS.

 

[PseuTonym]

Thats easy, if one does not learn from their past mistakes, they are doomed to repeat them, its pretty clear racism is a big problem today, it was not that long ago that laws existed in support of slavery…we have a LONG way to go.

Do you have any particular “we” in mind? The 1960’s were certainly “not that long ago” compared to the 1860’s.

“Slavery did not vanish in Saudi Arabia until King Faisal issued a decree for its total abolition in 1962. Peter Hobday stated that about 1,682 slaves were freed at that time, at a cost to the government of $2,000 each.”

Link:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_of_Saudi_Arabia#Abolition_of_slavery

The Wikipedia article cites the following reference source for support:
Saudi Arabia 1950-80: Between Nationalism and Religion
Michel G. Nehme
Middle Eastern Studies
Vol. 30, No. 4 (Oct., 1994), pp. 930-943
Published by: Taylor & Francis, Ltd.
Stable URL: jstor.org/stable/4283682

I will note that the combination of the number 1,682 slaves and the wording “vanish” and “total abolition”, gives the impression that something had previously reduced the number of slaves, or that slavery in Arabia had always involved relatively small or insignificant numbers of slaves compared to the number of slaves in other regions. However, no conclusions to the effect that it was insignificant can be drawn unless more information is available.

For example, “freed at that time” is vague language. If money compensation was being offered to slave owners, then one would expect that it might take some time to arrange for slave owners to register to avoid prosecution for owning slaves after receiving payment, and to avoid prosecution for claiming to have more slaves than the slave owner actually owned. It is conceivable that on the date when the decree was issued, 1,682 slaves were freed, but that not all people officially enslaved in Saudi Arabia in 1962 were freed until after payment was actually received by the slave owners.

Also, observe that the only reference provided for support has a date of October 1994, and that is suspiciously far from the date of 1962 for the decree. Did it really take 32 years for an oral tradition regarding an alleged decree from King Faisal to get put into writing? If the topic were a discussion of who among the earliest known disciples and apostles could have personally known Jesus, then there would be an enormous amount of attention paid to a gap of 32 years. Did King Faisal even exist? Perhaps he is an amalgamation of distorted memories of a variety of Arabian leaders.

 

[mikekle]

Do you have any particular “we” in mind? The 1960’s were certainly “not that long ago” compared to the 1860’s.

Not sure what you are asking?

When you look at the history of the world, even the 1860s were fairly recent, The US is a relatively new nation, and slavery still goes on in this country, you have sex slaves, slaves used for labor, so its still a thriving industry, just not a legal one anymore,but that doesnt stop people from doing it.

 

[Kanade]

Do you have any particular “we” in mind? The 1960’s were certainly “not that long ago” compared to the 1860’s.

Is there a point about racism that you wanted to discuss? Your opening question was a bit strange and felt as though there was a point behind it that you weren’t sharing. You didn’t respond to any of the replies to your question and now we’re talking about slavery. If there’s something you want to debate, it might be easier just to spell it out