Three questions for Bahai's: 1 Do you believe that the Revelation of Jesus Christ is to be taken literally?

[Gloria_de_G]

I understand that some might be suspicious. I answered the OP’s questions privately because she asked the questions and I felt the charitable assumption was that she asked them because she would like answers to them.

Dear Matthew my questions were publicly display, if I wanted private answers I could have gone to anyone of you Baha’is private messaging and asked.
But I open a thread because I want everyone to see and learn what you believe about the Revelation of Jesus Christ. So your assumption was very uncharitable because you made private what was public. I do not come to a public forum to talk in private, sorry.

What I have said is, I am not willing to participate in another public circus thread where Catholics and Baha’is talk about why their religion is the best one and argue with one another. I’m perfectly capable of participating in that kind of debate - have done that many times in the past on the internet over the past two decades both as a non-Baha’i and as a Baha’i - but God is quietly but insistently telling me in my heart that I am not to behave that way any more. In point of fact a wonderful Catholic young man who goes by the handle Yeshua over on the Baha’i Forum is the one who inspired me in this area by his beautiful example!

Weird, I saw that Yeshua does not have any posts on the Baha’is threads, but does not matter if he gave you good advise that suit you, yes you can follow it.

Private messages and emails have a very different dynamic from public forum threads. While forum threads very often elucidate tribal modalities of interaction such as us versus them thinking, in one-on-one conversations people are more likely to see that the other person is a child of God instead of someone who is on the wrong side and needs to be corrected and convinced and converted. In a PM or email It’s much easier for two people to learn from and appreciate one another instead of getting drawn into pitched battle with the “other side”.

Are you redefining the rules of CAF about private messages?

Yes and it is more easy to proselytize without none disturbing your answers. You can say anything without having to stand for it.

Sorry, follows to next post

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[Gloria_de_G]

I am NOT here to proselytize. I’m not here to talk about the Baha’i Faith either, unless someone asks about it.

This is what I find a bit strange from you Matthew, **that you feel you are not here to talk about the Baha’i Faith, and you add ‘unless someone asks about it’. **

If you come here to ‘Non-Catholic Religions’ forum and do not want “to debate the doctrines and dogmas of both Catholicism and non-Catholic religions” May be you have chosen the wrong forum. May be it will be good for you to try **The Water Cooler Hang out and talk about anything **or The Clubhouse Games, jokes, travelogues, coffee klatches, trivia, and more, where you will not have to discuss anything about your faith.
But in this forum of **Non-Catholic Religions -comparing and contrasting beliefs- ** this is what we come to do here.
And you said ‘unless someone asks about it’, and I did asked about it and you went private in a public forum, this is not nice. That is why Rebecca thought that

(…) that an unwillingness to discuss what is believed publicly, while inviting to a private conversation, can be viewed as seeking to isolate a person from public debate in order that a public discussion doesn’t interfere with proselyting.

(…) Getting into arguments with Catholics about differences between beliefs works against my real goal of being which is fellowship and love.

That is why truly in love for you and your conscious I think that this forum on Non-Catholic Religions probably is not the right one for you. But of course that you are must welcome in these forums, just that here you and me expose ones faith and stand for it in a charitable way. No need to argue, mock, proselytize, to put down or to see who is on the right or on the wrong.** It is about exposing our believes and dogmas and to defend them, and be ready to answer for them if anyone may find errors. **

God bless all of you, and Christ bless the Catholic Church!

Many thanks Matthew, I am sure that our Lord keeps His Catholic Church, because he promised "I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it."

This is why Catholics believe and feel and perceive always His presence around us.
That is also why when we do not keep His teachings we are more to blame that the ones who do not have them.

May God enlighten your path and show you the truth of His Revelation,** ‘The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him to show us the things that must soon take place**.’ cf Rev 1:1

In the love of Christ and His Revelation,
Gloria

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[Gloria_de_G]

God bless you Gloria.

For the sake of sanity and repeating ourselves for the umpteenth time in the exact matters you raised I too am willing to respond to your questions by PM.

Matthew is right.

Well, sorry Servant, I do not think that you or Matthew are right, and I said why to him just now in posts #21 and #22. I am not any one here on the CAF but I really think that your way of understanding private messaging in a public forum is not right.

You posted links to so many Bahai threads. I’m pretty confident that in each one of them, the matters you raised were discussed at length.

Must of those links that I cited are closed. And you have still one that is open, I think, but these threads of yours are very wide. I wanted something specific and that is why I opened this about the way the Baha’is stand on The Revelation of Jesus Christ, on which I really never have had very clear they way you believe, except things here and there, that even you yourself have told me like the two witnesses of Jesus Christ of Revelation ch. 11 are Mohammed and Ali, who were not even Christians.

If you are sincerely searching then reading through those threads and asking questions that were unanswered is something we will assuredly address , but if your intent is to belittle the Bahai Faith to give a superficial victory to Catholicism, then I am giving a big AMEN, to Matthews post above.

God forbid!! :tsktsk: I do not want to belittle the Bahai Faith, I just want to know it better. To know exactly your believes on the Revelation of Jesus Christ, since you claim that Baha’uh’lah is the Second Coming of Christ. I do not think that this desire of mine is insincere. And why you recommend me to go to those forums and there you will deal with my questions: also in private messages??

God bless you and your loved ones!! .

Dear Servant, I also wish you the best for you and your family and really pray to God to give you the courage to stand strongly for your faith in public. I do it, that is why I come to this forum, to expose my believes and to be ready to answer for them: IN PUBLIC.

In the Love of Christ and His Revelation,
Gloria

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[Eric_Hilbert]

For the record, private messages are well within forum rules and users can be penalized up to and including a ban.
Just an FYI.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

For the record, private messages are well within forum rules and users can be penalized up to and including a ban.
Just an FYI.

Many thanks Eric.
What we are wondering is messaging privately in this thread where** I publicly asked three questions to the Bahai faithful about their understanding on The Revelation of Jesus Christ**,** and they want to answer me in private messages**. I asked this because **they claim that Baha’ulla’h, their founder, is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and I believe this is something they have to clarify in public **not in private. And if they do not want to participate, they do not have to, but not in private yes, but publicly no. I am not asking anything about their private lives or any other private matter.

I understand to go private in the forum if I was asking something that they would be ashamed to answer in public,** but my questions are about their faith and they want to go private. **This forum is not about going private with your religious believes, I do not believe this is the intention of the CAF in this Non-Catholic Religions Forum,
Any way their desire to go private in such a public matter, leaves me doubts about **their good intentions to not to use this forums as platforms to proselytize in private messages. **And who is going to know what are they doing? Who is checking their private messaging?

In the love of His Revelation,
Gloria

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[Matthew_Light]

Gloria, there are plenty of threads here already where Baha’is and Catholics argue about doctrines including the return of Christ.

Baha’i beliefs are not a secret.

I simply choose not to participate in threads where Catholics and Baha’is argue at one another. It’s not a sinister plot in my part.

Rather than those arguments I’ve read many times, I’m much more interested in hearing from Catholics what the Church means to them.

You’re obviously very passionate about your beliefs. I’d love to hear from you more about what the Church means in your life, what makes the Catholic faith especially appealing to you, any special experiences you might have had relating to the Church, and the like.

I find hearing about that fascinating.

Thank you,

Matthew

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Gloria, there are plenty of threads here already where Baha’is and Catholics argue about doctrines including the return of Christ.

Baha’i beliefs are not a secret.

I simply choose not to participate in threads where Catholics and Baha’is argue at one another. It’s not a sinister plot in my part.

Rather than those arguments I’ve read many times, I’m much more interested in hearing from Catholics what the Church means to them.

You’re obviously very passionate about your beliefs. I’d love to hear from you more about what the Church means in your life, what makes the Catholic faith especially appealing to you, any special experiences you might have had relating to the Church, and the like.

I find hearing about that fascinating.

Thank you,

Matthew

Dear Matthew, I also have opened threads in Sacred Scripture:

How do we sin mortally against the Holy Spirit?
What is real love and how we can purify our hearts?
How do I know what is the will of God for me?

You can go to my statistics and find all the threadsI have started. You are welcome.

But this thread is about what Baha’is believe about the Book of Revelation. You can open a thread inquiring about us Catholics, with pleasure we will tell you all what we can.

And if Baha’is believes are not a secret so do not be telling us, you and Servant, that will discuss about it in private mails. Do it here. This is where I have asked about it.

In the love of Christ and His Revelation,
Gloria

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[Gloria_de_G]

Gloria, there are plenty of threads here already where Baha’is and Catholics argue about doctrines including the return of Christ.
Baha’i beliefs are not a secret.
I simply choose not to participate in threads where Catholics and Baha’is argue at one another. It’s not a sinister plot in my part.
Rather than those arguments I’ve read many times, I’m much more interested in hearing from Catholics what the Church means to them.
You’re obviously very passionate about your beliefs. I’d love to hear from you more about what the Church means in your life, what makes the Catholic faith especially appealing to you, any special experiences you might have had relating to the Church, and the like.
I find hearing about that fascinating.
Thank you,
Matthew

Dear Matthew, I also have opened threads in Sacred Scripture:

How do we sin mortally against the Holy Spirit?
What is real love and how we can purify our hearts?
How do I know what is the will of God for me?

You can go to my statistics and find all the threads I have started. You are welcome.

But this thread is about what Baha’is believe about the Book of Revelation. You can open a thread inquiring about us Catholics, with pleasure we will tell you all what we can.

And if Baha’is believes are not a secret so do not be telling us, you and Servant, that will discuss about it in private mails. Do it here. This is where I have asked about it.

In the love of Christ and His Revelation,
Gloria

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[Matthew_Light]

I’m sorry. I’ve already seen what a circus that the threads become when Baha’is and Catholics argue about differences in their beliefs here in this forum.

I won’t be participating in that.

All the best,

Matthew

 

[Servant19]

Hi Gloria,

Unlike Matthew who I respect fully to remain removed from all circular debates etc, I am here to learn more about the similarities between Catholic and Baha’i theology. I am also wanting to avoid debates and circus’s but I will adress some of your questions in an attempt to learn something from you

In your post, you wrote:

In the Book of Revelation, from where Baha’is take these ideas, it is written this:
And I saw thrones and they sat on them and power to judge was given to them(…) and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." Rev 20:4

You said that we are now in the millennium, so where are the thrones??
The text continue:

" The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that takes part in the first resurrection (…) they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him for a thousand years." Rev 20:5-6

Now, here it says that during the thousand years the ones that take part in the millennium will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign during this period. Where are your priests, now that you say that we are in the millennium??

In the text says very clear that the priests of God will receive POWER during the millennium and they will reign. Then how can you say that all these problems of our societies will end gradually during the next 830 years through our own efforts, inspired by God’s teachings, therefore not by God’s POWER as we just read.

Let us go to your answer to the third question in the next post please.

May I ask you, do you therefore take the Book of Revelation literally?

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[tonyfish58]

Weird, I saw that Yeshua does not have any posts on the Baha’is threads, but does not matter if he gave you good advise that suit you, yes you can follow it..

Gloria - Matthew was saying Yeshua Posts on the “Bahai Forums” - Link

bahaiforums.com/forums.php

Yeshua is a wonderful catholic If you wish you can ask the same questions there as well!

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

1 Do you believe that the Revelation of Jesus Christ is to be taken literally?
2 When was, is or will be the Millennium?
3 Had Jesus come back?

Your answers will help Catholics and others to understand better your religion.

Many thanks. Just please keep as brief as possible your answers. In the love of Christ,
Gloria .

Gloria - I read this post and was tempted to answer your questions in the Spirit you stated above.

Then I came across this that you said “We Catholics also love the Baha’is very much, what we do not love is their teachings”!

Consider this statement imputes that judgment has been made without a just weighing of the evidence yet to be produced.

Baha’ullah has written

“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted. They who are its appointed interpreters, they whose hearts are the repositories of its secrets, are, however, the only ones who can comprehend its manifold wisdom. Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead, though to outward seeming he may walk and converse with his neighbors, and share with them their food and their drink.
Oh, would that the world could believe Me! Were all the things that lie enshrined within the heart of Bahá, and which the Lord, His God, the Lord of all names, hath taught Him, to be unveiled to mankind, every man on earth would be dumbfounded”.

And

“Not everything that a man knoweth can be disclosed, nor can everything that he can disclose be regarded as timely, nor can every timely utterance be considered as suited to the capacity of those who hear it.”

Link to Tablet - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-89.html

I too think these subjects have been done over and over on this Forum to date. I still like to participate here to learn and share. I will follow Mathews Lead on this one!

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

Well, Gloria, this leaves you with just old ME!!

I did post a response to you in the “Two Witnesses” thread, and I read your response with interest.

I hope we can dialogue with only love in our hearts

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[tonyfish58]

Well, Gloria, this leaves you with just old ME!!

I did post a response to you in the “Two Witnesses” thread, and I read your response with interest.

I hope we can dialogue with only love in our hearts .

You are all of us in One

P/S you said “I did post a response to you in the “Two Witnesses” thread, and I read your response with interest”. I have found that we can not post in this area. All my posts in this section have been removed not long after posting

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

You are all of us in One

P/S you said “I did post a response to you in the “Two Witnesses” thread, and I read your response with interest”. I have found that we can not post in this area. All my posts in this section have been removed not long after posting

God Bless and Regards Tony

Love you Tony

Yes my post was deleted it seems and so was Gloria’s response.
I didn’t know we are not allowed to post there. I won’t in the future. Thank you

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[Gloria_de_G]

I’m sorry. I’ve already seen what a circus that the threads become when Baha’is and Catholics argue about differences in their beliefs here in this forum.
I won’t be participating in that.
All the best,
Matthew

You have made this yourself by hiding your believes, but then go in other threads to say that Bahau’lah is the Second Coming of Christ, **when you do not know even what does this means in the Book of Revelation ** where this event is explain in detail.

In the love of Christ and awaiting for His Second Coming,
Gloria

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[Gloria_de_G]

Hi Gloria,

Unlike Matthew who I respect fully to remain removed from all circular debates etc, I am here to learn more about the similarities between Catholic and Baha’i theology. I am also wanting to avoid debates and circus’s but I will adress some of your questions in an attempt to learn something from you
In your post, you wrote:
May I ask you, do you therefore take the Book of Revelation literally?
.

There are many things that need to be taken literraly and others no. For example here when we speak about thrones during the millennium this refers to the thrones of the Bishops in the Catholic Church, who are the priests that reign with Christ during the millennim, to whom power is given.

Hope this clarify a bit my view.
In the love of His Revelation,
Gloria

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[Gloria_de_G]

Gloria - Matthew was saying Yeshua Posts on the “Bahai Forums” - Link

bahaiforums.com/forums.php

Yeshua is a wonderful catholic If you wish you can ask the same questions there as well!

Regards Tony

Many thanks Tony for clarifying that…

Greetings in the Lord,
Gloria

 

[Matthew_Light]

You have made this yourself by hiding your believes, but then go in other threads to say that Bahau’lah is the Second Coming of Christ,

You will have to show me where I ever said anything even remotely like “Baha’u’llah is the second coming of Christ” on any thread here on CAF, Gloria. I don’t remember saying it, and a quick search through my post history doesn’t turn it up either.

And I am not hiding my beliefs in any way. I sent you answers to the questions you asked. I simply refuse to participate in a Catholic versus Baha’i thread debating one set of beliefs against the other. I’m done with that modality of discourse.

**when you do not know even what does this means in the Book of Revelation ** where this event is explain in detail.

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Sorry Gloria it won’t work, I’m not going to get into a debate with you about interpreting Revelation.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Gloria - I read this post and was tempted to answer your questions in the Spirit you stated above.

Then I came across this that you said “We Catholics also love the Baha’is very much, what we do not love is their teachings”!
(…)

God Bless and Regards Tony

Dear Tony this is a very simple statement: the teachings that you have that effects Catholics and Christians in general is your claim that Bahau’lah is the Second Coming of Christ, this is the teaching that I meant we do not love.

Why?

Because up to now you do not want (or can not) probe this with the Revelation of Jesus Christ, but you claim that Bahau’lah is his Second Coming.

This is why I said that this thread was with the intention of learning more about the Baha’is in the spirit of love. But you just do not want to expose your believes clearly about this matter with the Revelation of Jesus Christ in hand.

But I wish you the best and I re-state that we Catholics love the Baha’is very much:wave:
Gloria

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