Three strikes or one with the new translation?

[YoungTradCath]

Definitive statement by competent ecclesiastical authority - so how come so many are ignoring this post?

I’m ignoring this post because I question its current applicability.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I hope this issue doesn’t devolve into yet another endless debate as in OF vs. EF, EMHC’s, CITH, etc. I can see it now: “At MY parish, we celebrate the Extraordinary Form, distribute Communion only on the tongue, don’t use EMHC’s, and beat our breast THREE times . . . .”

 

[YoungTradCath]

I hope this issue doesn’t devolve into yet another endless debate as in OF vs. EF, EMHC’s, CITH, etc. I can see it now: “At MY parish, we celebrate the Extraordinary Form, distribute Communion only on the tongue, don’t use EMHC’s, and beat our breast THREE times . . . .”

Well, all you have to say is, “At my parish, we celebrate the Extraordinary Form,” and the rest after that is covered.

But seriously, this is important.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I’m ignoring this post because I question its current applicability.

Why is not applicable. The instruction in the Roman Missal has not changed thus the answer given by the competent authority still remains applicable:

The words mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa which are found in the Confiteor are introduced in the restored Roman Missal by a rubric of this sort: All likewise … striking their breast, say … (OM, n. 3). In the former Missal, in the same place, the rubric sounded like this: He strikes his breast three times. **It does not seem, therefore, that anyone has to strike his breast three times in pronouncing those words in Latin or in another language, even if mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa is said. It suffices that there be a striking of the breast. **

Obviously it does not forbid the 3 fold striking, however it clearly states once is enough…

 

[MarkThompson]

I’m ignoring this post because I question its current applicability.

No offense, but the ruling is clearly applicable – it makes it clear that it applies whether the Confiteor is said in Latin or in any other language, and whether it contains three invocations or only one of “fault.”

The point is that the ruling does not does not say that you must strike your breast only one time and may not to it three times; merely that striking the breast once is sufficient and is all that is expected. As I said above, on my reading this ruling makes it clear that it is not the intention of the Missale to govern the number of strikes at all. Thus, you would be free to do it three times, but you cannot think that people who do it once are doing it wrong, nor should you go around saying “With the new translation, you are supposed to strike your breast three times.”

 

[YoungTradCath]

No offense, but the ruling is clearly applicable – it makes it clear that it applies whether the Confiteor is said in Latin or in any other language, and whether it contains three invocations or only one of “fault.”

The point is that the ruling does not does not say that you must strike your breast only one time and may not to it three times; merely that striking the breast once is sufficient and is all that is expected. As I said above, on my reading this ruling makes it clear that it is not the intention of the Missale to govern the number of strikes at all. Thus, you would be free to do it three times, but you cannot think that people who do it once are doing it wrong, nor should you go around saying “With the new translation, you are supposed to strike your breast three times.”

I don’t find this offensive at all, firstly.

I don’t understand why this document is still applicable. That is all.

 

[Corki]

Around here, most people, including some priests strike three times, even with the “old” translation. There is just no uniformity about exactly when the strikes occur. My guess is that with the new translation, the strikes will fall fairly naturally on the “fault” words. It will be interesting to see.

 

[Boulder257]

You know, we’re going to have back and forth arguments about who’s right until there is a definitive statement on it.

I only wish this was the case, yet it seems definitive statements still don’t seem to stop people from thinking otherwise. Hence schism, sedevecantism, traditionalism, liberalism, and all of the other ways that we continue to divide ourselves.

 

[MarkThompson]

I don’t find this offensive at all, firstly.

I don’t understand why this document is still applicable. That is all.

Because it was issued in 1978, concerns the modern Missal of Paul VI, and has never been modified, overruled, or superseded. There is a presumption that rulings, once issued, will continue in force indefinitely, so I’m not sure what could make you think it would not still be applicable. They don’t have to renew it every five years or something.

 

[fall_fox]

In continuity with tradition, you should strike your chest 3 times.

fall fox

Thank you Mc. This is such a small thing that has been missed over the last 50 yrs. there are so many, more important things that haven’t been passed down.
`

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Thank you Mc. This is such a small thing that has been missed over the last 50 yrs. there are so many, more important things that haven’t been passed down.
`

However, the Church has said we “should” strike once, we may strike 3 times.

 

[iloveangels]

NewEnglandPries notes exactly what had led me to wonder, that it doesn’t say three times in the missal. This is also the type of reasoning that appears in MarkThompson’s link (thank you for it).

I suspect there will be much confusion on the issue. The parish across town from me was carefully instructed today to strike their breast three times next week, perhaps for the reason that TheMc gave, and yet we have ermcma who was clearly told to do it only once.

Did anyone else receive specific instructions about it?

Even if only one strike is required, are three okay to do?

I remember the old Tridentine mass very well, which used to have this movement in it. It’s a classic.

Strike yourself softly but symbolically 3 times when you say these repeats. Mind you, it’s a prayer movement–you’re not supposed to make thumps and for Pete’s sake, don’t maim yourself or anyone else! That’s not what this is about.

People might only do it once especially at first, because it’s a very strange motion for modern people to do, and most Catholics have never seen it before. I don’t even think there’s a youtube video of it, LOL. Nothing awful will happen if you just do it once, of course. But the authentic gesture is 3 times softly right in the center of your chest with your loosely folded hand, knuckles touching chest, palm-side of your hand toward your chest. You can use either hand, whichever one is not holding your missal–although most people use their dominant hand, the one they write with.

Traditionally, bells were sounded as these words were said, and as the movement was made. That may or may not happen in your parish. The practical directions above are the same either way.

 

[fbl9]

Strike yourself softly but symbolically 3 times when you say these repeats. Mind you, it’s a prayer movement–you’re not supposed to make thumps and for Pete’s sake, don’t maim yourself or anyone else! That’s not what this is about.

.

Aww, one can’t try to beat their sinful tendancies out. twould be nice.

 

[Pug]

I remember the old Tridentine mass very well, which used to have this movement in it. It’s a classic.

Strike yourself softly but symbolically 3 times when you say these repeats. Mind you, it’s a prayer movement–you’re not supposed to make thumps and for Pete’s sake, don’t maim yourself or anyone else! That’s not what this is about.

People might only do it once especially at first, because it’s a very strange motion for modern people to do, and most Catholics have never seen it before. I don’t even think there’s a youtube video of it, LOL. Nothing awful will happen if you just do it once, of course. But the authentic gesture is 3 times softly right in the center of your chest with your loosely folded hand, knuckles touching chest, palm-side of your hand toward your chest. You can use either hand, whichever one is not holding your missal–although most people use their dominant hand, the one they write with.

Traditionally, bells were sounded as these words were said, and as the movement was made. That may or may not happen in your parish. The practical directions above are the same either way.

I didn’t know they sounded bells then. Do you know why they did? I had heard they sounded bells so people in the field would know when certain things happened at the church, though. Was the confiteor one of those?

I have seen the single strike many times. The priests at my parish do it, and several congregates. I figured the priests were waiting for the translation change to use that opportunity to get the rest of the congregation to do the motion. We’ll see what happens in the next few weeks.

 

[Evan]

Traditionally, bells were sounded as these words were said, and as the movement was made. That may or may not happen in your parish. The practical directions above are the same either way.

Really? I never rang them in the 50’s when we were offering Low Masses at the cathedral in Baker.

There was 1 at the epiclesis (calling down the Holy Spirit to change the elements into the Body and Blood of Chirst)

There were 3 at the elevations of the consecrated bread and wine

There was 1 at the call to communion (Lord I am not worthy).

The confiteor was said twice. Once by the priest, then by the servers. I was busy striking my breast so could not ring the bells. Also, I still have an old instruction card and no mention of the bells at this time is given.

I find that some instructions indicate a ring of the bells at the Sanctus, and I don’t remember doing that.

Are you sure?

Of course you could have been serving with a priest who did not want to follow the rubrics. It was just as hard then as now to get everyone celebrating the mass the same way.

 

[fall_fox]

However, the Church has said we “should” strike once, we may strike 3 times.

fall fox

NEP, you quoted the Roman Missal in #3 that it says " and striking their breast they say through my fault…
no number is given, on # 45 you say that it says you should strike once ???
I’m going to give a wild guess and say that Catholics have been striking their breast 3 times for the past 1600 years up until Vatican ll. But then how important is that?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

NEP, you quoted the Roman Missal in #3 that it says " and striking their breast they say through my fault…
no number is given, on # 45 you say that it says you should strike once ???
I’m going to give a wild guess and say that Catholics have been striking their breast 3 times for the past 1600 years up until Vatican ll. But then how important is that?

I was referring to the directive from the Notitiae that was posted in this thread that stated once was sufficient. Everything else is interesting, but not required…

the Confiteor are introduced in the restored Roman Missal by a rubric of this sort: All likewise … striking their breast, say … (OM, n. 3). In the former Missal, in the same place, the rubric sounded like this: He strikes his breast three times. It does not seem, therefore, that anyone has to strike his breast three times in pronouncing those words in Latin or in another language, even if mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa is said. It suffices that there be a striking of the breast.

 

[iloveangels]

Really? I never rang them in the 50’s when we were offering Low Masses at the cathedral in Baker.

There was 1 at the epiclesis (calling down the Holy Spirit to change the elements into the Body and Blood of Chirst)

There were 3 at the elevations of the consecrated bread and wine

There was 1 at the call to communion (Lord I am not worthy).

The confiteor was said twice. Once by the priest, then by the servers. I was busy striking my breast so could not ring the bells. Also, I still have an old instruction card and no mention of the bells at this time is given.

I find that some instructions indicate a ring of the bells at the Sanctus, and I don’t remember doing that.

Are you sure?

Of course you could have been serving with a priest who did not want to follow the rubrics. It was just as hard then as now to get everyone celebrating the mass the same way.

Not sure about the bells, no. I remember the gesture very clearly. But not sure about when they sounded the bells–maybe it was only at the consecration? It’s been a long time since before Vatican II!

 

[iloveangels]

fall fox

NEP, you quoted the Roman Missal in #3 that it says " and striking their breast they say through my fault…
no number is given, on # 45 you say that it says you should strike once ???
I’m going to give a wild guess and say that Catholics have been striking their breast 3 times for the past 1600 years up until Vatican ll. But then how important is that?

YOu could ask somebody who still attends the Tridentine mass. Some of the practices around that mass have changed since before Vatican II, but they might still be doing this because in Latin it still should through my fault 3 times.

 

[MissRose73]

I will do 3, as that is what I do when going to the ExtraOrdinary Form & see the priest and servers do.

I notice on EWTN when they say the Confiteor when watching The Daily Mass, I see much of the congregation do the 3 strikes of the breast (and the Mass is Ordinary Form).

So, I will do 3 regardless of the Mass type I attend when the Confiteor is recited.