Three Teachings: Common Message

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What do these have in common?:
  • Story of Prodigal son
  • Workers who started late (Matthew 20:11-16)
  • Woman caught in adultery
    In each of these I see the message that each one of us can be grateful to God for His kindness and seek that His grace and kindness be accepted and responded to by those who we may be unhappy with or have wronged us.
The brother who questioned the father when the son returned seems similar in attitude to the worker who didn’t think it was fair that someone else got the same pay even though he worked less time. They both needed to be grateful and happy for others. Also, those who would stone the woman needed to understand that God offers them the same mercy as He gave the woman and they should be happy that she received God’s mercy.
 
What do these have in common?:
  • Story of Prodigal son
  • Workers who started late (Matthew 20:11-16)
  • Woman caught in adultery
    In each of these I see the message that each one of us can be grateful to God for His kindness and seek that His grace and kindness be accepted and responded to by those who we may be unhappy with or have wronged us.
The brother who questioned the father when the son returned seems similar in attitude to the worker who didn’t think it was fair that someone else got the same pay even though he worked less time. They both needed to be grateful and happy for others. Also, those who would stone the woman needed to understand that God offers them the same mercy as He gave the woman and they should be happy that she received God’s mercy.
I can see what you are saying, but I am troubled by having meditated on these very passages carefully in the past. Here’s some thoughts:

The elder son had a responsibility to the younger to take care of him, which is why the eldest son was given a double portion of the inheritence. So, the Father actually has no right to divvy up the inheritence again – based on custom.
Notice, that the Father throws a party – but consoles the older son by telling him: everything I have is yours.

The elder son has reason for concern, because there was no welfare system and 1/3 of his father’s assets had already been squandered. I think the father put a ring on the younger son’s finger, in addition to the party, so that implied some authority with respect to the slaves – and that is a fear point for his brother, undoubtedly, who was worried what his younger brother might try to do with that little bit of leverage.

The father, however, is also acting in self defense against a pagan culture. If he reduces his son to slavery, the neighbors would talk (in addition to the slaves despising him for he abases his own flesh) – and the failure would not only attributed to the son, but the father who raised him. So the father is trying to bring the elder brother to realize mercy is the better course while not giving away the whole store.

The workers parable, I can agree to that wholeheartedly with your comparison.

However, the woman caught in adultury is a very mysterious passage.
We don’t know who she is, or even what religion. Take for example Herodias’ daughter (salome) – there is nothing in the text which excludes her from being the woman. It could also be a roman temple prostitute, who being a roman citizen was immune to Mosaic stoning. So, it was a death trap for Jesus.
Say stone her, by command, he is condemned of violating Roman law, etc.
Let her go when she clearly committed adultury, and the pharisees could claim Jesus didn’t uphold the Law of Moses. Discredit or death, they wanted either.
Jesus wasn’t afraid of death, but it was to be on his terms and not for any crime of any kind, even against Roman Law.

It is possible that the woman came willingly, as the text indicates she “gave herself away” in some fashion – eg: She did the act publicly or something like that.
But the problem seems to be that they brought her naked and defiled into the temple itself – to the very place in the temple where Jesus sat on the stone floor to teach, as was his custom.

Prhaps they justified their action based on the Law of Moses allowing a woman"Suspected" of adultury who was brought to the temple (I believe the husband had to do so) to drink the bitter water as a test where God would punish the hidden Guilt if any. But, in this case there was no doubt she was guilty.
They went too far.

There are several other ways to look at the last story – but that she was thumbing her nose at Jesus is one potential way to read the passage.

Now I agree, Jesus didn’t come on the earth to inflict capital punishment on anyone – he came to teach, convince, and call a flock. When Jesus left the earth he sent the Holy Spirit (Paraclete), and notice the first act of Peter due to the lie given by Annas and Saphira – God himself smote them for far less than the Pharisees were trying to do to Jesus. They received death.

I think Jesus was forced by the terms of his messianic mission not to die prematurely, but in the way foretold – which was devoid of Judgement, but as an act of a messenger of the Father to whom no one can say there was a reason to doubt the authenticity.

To emphasize the point, notice, even though John the Baptist had condemned Herod of adultury for taking Herodias as his “wife” (The reason John was beheaded in fact) – Jesus does not even condemn him directly when the pharisees ask the question of him in Herods district – but rather, Jesus evades the trap – while still bringing the teaching against polygamy, and polyandry, to the pharisees on the basis of Adam and Eve being TWO who became one flesh, and no more. He indirectly condemns those who could kill him for any reason except being the messiah. It is only on a purely false charge that Jesus would allow himself to be executed by.

So, his coming is certainly merciful – but it was in order to gain some kind of evidence against the devil. The judgement of the world was not Jesus’ purpose at the time – so be careful to look for what he taught was right more than his mercy at a particular time. The next time we see him, it is as judge.

Those who are merciful will receive mercy.
 
In each case, one or more people did not seek or approve of the kindness and mercy that the other received. This is a key part of what I am referring to. This shows us how we all need to be careful about our attitudes toward and willingness to seek the good for others. At the very same time we don’t compromise the truth.
 
In each case, one or more people did not seek or approve of the kindness and mercy that the other received. This is a key part of what I am referring to. This shows us how we all need to be careful about our attitudes toward and willingness to seek the good for others. At the very same time we don’t compromise the truth.
In the question of the woman caught in adultury, who received mercy?

As far as I can tell, Jesus antagonized his opponents to puff their pride up to the maximum and then he springs a death or humilation trap on all of them.
The only reason the woman remains standing there is that although her friends have left her, she still thinks she might force Jesus to throw a stone at her.
After all, he is without sin, and that was the condition he laid for throwing the stone. He was a dead man and as far as she is concerned, a hypocrite.

But, that’s the beauty of his response based purely on the mosaic law –
stoning requires two or three witnesses. No witnesses, no right to stone.
But, she is still judged with no vindication – as a whore stripped naked in public was in fact the punishment for being a whore – not that it did any good. So she received the very sentence the Law required for a lesser crime.

Remember Adultury is also remarriage in Jesus’ eyes when the first spouse is still living – although Moses permitted divorce. So a “legal” adultury is possible here.
But she walks away labeled as a whore in public opinion … humiliated…
If he had thrown the stone, she would have appeared more righteous.

There are other variations on this theme too – so I find it hard to define who rejects the mercy given to another here – the story doesn’t give enough detail to know for certain. Jesus doesn’t receive mercy, he receives vindication – everyone else receives humiliation.
 
In the question of the woman caught in adultury, who received mercy?
The woman received mercy.

John 8:11
Then Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more.”

In some sense all received mercy since Jesus indicated that He did not come to condemn but to save all people.

However, the main point is to see in all three cases how the disposition of others was not in favor of the mercy or kindness that was given.

I think there is a common message that we are to seek the good for those whose actions we may even be unhappy about. Jesus teaches this message other times also.
 
The woman received mercy.

John 8:11
Then Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more.”
Yes, but the whole context was not a personal mercy:

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

His non-condemation is not personal, but contingent on the Pharisees.
She does not even condemn herself again, but remains in the sin. Jesus can’t condemn her on the law of Moses, which would be a death trap for himself:
Look at the Mosaic law:
Deuteronomy 17:6
On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness.
In some sense all received mercy since Jesus indicated that He did not come to condemn but to save all people.

However, the main point is to see in all three cases how the disposition of others was not in favor of the mercy or kindness that was given.

I think there is a common message that we are to seek the good for those whose actions we may even be unhappy about. Jesus teaches this message other times also.
Coder, I most certainly agree with your outlook. Jesus did not come to Judge the world, but only to gather evidence for the final condemnation of the Devil. There are more than one witness involved here after Jesus’ death and resurrection.
But I see the incidences of mercy as possible warnings for what will happen when Jesus does Judge.

Here, the woman, by not leaving – forces Jesus to finish the case because he has already answered the question the Pharisees and Scribes put to him – she forces Jesus to defend his position. (She could have snuck out while he continued to look away) I think Jesus would have preferred to ignore the case althogether as is proved by his initial silence to the Pharisees and Scribes as he taunted them visually by acting like a scribe writing on something.

But elsewhere in scripture when presented with a case to Judge – Jesus refuses to be a judge at all. “Who made me your judge?”

So, the final response of Jesus is his vindication – at the expense of condemning the woman verbally, although not with stones:
Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more.
She receives the sentence permitted by the Law of Moses in her case, Jesus receives vindication – everyone else receives humiliation. Again, the woman could have been legally remarried under the Law of Moses on a technicality – or more likely since she doesn’t leave while he continues to look away, but faces him – she may not have been repentant and thought she was justified by the Law.
Neither result can be proven from the incident in scripture as recorded.

Coder, to be clear – I heartily agree with the resultant idea you have come up with, and I think it is true even in spite of the twisted depth of this adulturous woman. In both the other parables, the ideas you express are explicitly addressed – in this last one, I don’t see anyone receiving more than they would legally.
Jesus follows the law to the letter.

He brings us to understand that we have no right, legally, to condemn her either – even though by her own admission she is guilty. For there is only one witnessing. That isn’t the same as mercy, for in this case it is justice.

I recall what Jesus said to pilate regarding the imposition of Roman Law – “You would have no power over me unless it were granted to you from above.”
And I would note that Roman law applied in the passage with the Adulturous woman – so although the appearance of mercy exists, the woman goes away with no guarantee of mercy at all.

Notice, Jesus does not allow her to do as she pleases, but tells her to go away.
“go” – as in get out of my sight, and don’t solicit prostitution here.

I caution against using the adulterous woman as supporting proof, because on careful reflection people normally do not cosider self defence a mercy.
Although one can argue that it is merciful that everyone live rather than everone die – including Jesus himself.

But then, it isn’t really talking about a mercy specific to an incident – but rather the conditions witten into the law of Adam and Eve which does not promise instant death, but death will surely come in the day one eats of the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve were given cloths when they left paradise – but Jesus gives the woman nothing, nor commands anyone else to do so, she leaves naked as prescribed for the prostitute.

Although the adulturous woman passage is traditionally associated with mercy, I think the subtlety of the passage too deep.

Mercy shines forth in the earlier two parables where Jesus shows the justice of a merciful action which did not have to be done in the way it was done, they were free to choose to inflict punishment or at least rejection – but did not do so.
Here in this last passage, it looks as if Jesus were forced to Judge – his opponents did Get him into at least a compromised position.

What then, is “sin no more” a spark of hope that her sin will be forgiven – or is it a warning that more sin will inflict yet worse punishment?

How does the mercy message get untangled from the justice issues in such a difficult passage of scripture – the brightest of the Jewish bright failed to correctly analyze it.
 
Yes, but the whole context was not a personal mercy:

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”


His non-condemation is not personal, but contingent on the Pharisees.
I do not find the word “Then” ( verse 11) in the Greek. Neither is it in the RSV. My RSV reads,

And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; …”

Without adding the “then”, I do not think any contingency is expressed. However, it does manifest Our Lord’s mercy in forgiving sinners.

Nita

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I do not find the word “Then” ( verse 11) in the Greek. Neither is it in the RSV. My RSV reads,

And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; …”

Without adding the “then”, I do not think any contingency is expressed. However, it does manifest Our Lord’s mercy in forgiving sinners.

Nita

.
Hi Nita ! Hope you slept well!

You are right, the word for then or that is not a seperate word in the Greek –
But Jesus does not say “not” as “ou” or “ouk” or “mH” (Sorry my Greek fonts are temporarily broken still) so it isn’t a freestanding don’t/do not condemn.

The Greek DOES say ‘oude’ which is contingent of a list – “neither”, “nor”
Since you use the RSV, skip ahead to John 13:16 where exactly the same word is used showing the contingency – two phrases with the same thrust and relationship using EXACTLY the same word in the same form.
RSV-CE:
John 13:16 Truly, Truly, I say to you, a servant to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him.
Why is the messenger less than the message sender – because of the preceeding statement – a servant is not greater than his master. Nor, Neither, then, are all contingent words.

(one could argue hyothetically/possibly that the messanger could be a higher ranking official doing a lower ranking official a favor… but not with that preceeding sentence.)

Also, if you look – If Jesus does not condemn her at all (the other possible meaning of “oude”?) , he is a hypocrite – for he has already said “let the one among you with no sin throw the first stone” and he says “sin no more”.

If he condemns her not, why bother to ask her where her accusers had gone?
(Why should he care? because the pont is if he doesn’t condemn her – the Pharisees have an accusation to bring against him – he breaks the Law of moses with his “mercy”)

Look at the passage following, the same law I am referencing is quoted by Jesus in 15:17 is where he is using it against the Pharisees – and Jesus excludes himself from judging in 8:15 Jesus points out he is not a Judge – for he is a servant in his state of life, and the one on trial. The discussion is technical, and infuriating to the Pharisees.

But it is contingent. Since he has not Judged, there is nothing to accuse him of.
 
If he condemns her not, why bother to ask her where her accusers had gone?
(Why should he care? because the pont is if he doesn’t condemn her – the Pharisees have an accusation to bring against him – he breaks the Law of moses with his “mercy”)
Jesus states that He does not condemn her.

The reason for asking the woman could be to help her realize that those who would stone her are also sinners in need of God’s mercy and that they no longer seek to stone her. This can also be a message to us who might be tempted to look down on her. When Jesus asks where her accusers are I see this as a loving encouragement to the woman who probably was stricken with fear since they were planning to stone her. His question may have confirmed for her that she need not fear them further.

Jesus may also be freeing her to see the importance of not sinning against God by helping to relieve her temporal fear. Perhaps this is related to the teaching of Jesus that we should not fear those who can kill the body but rather we should fear God who can cast someone into Gehenna.

Sometimes asking a question can cause the one to whom the question is posed to think and reflect. Jesus asked Philip a question to test him. John 6:5
 
There is no question that Jesus does not condemn because He states that He does not.
The word for condemn is “katakrine” the first part - kata means in agreement with, according to, or compared against. It is dealing with a lawful agreement with a condemning sentancing.

For example – kata-holos – means in agreement with, or compared against the whole – Catholic. The very word for Judgement used in John 8:11 is an agreement with an objective norm of Mosaic Law – it is NOT a mere personal opinion – but a legal aquittal that Jesus is speaking of, and which he can defend.
The reason for asking the woman could be to help her realize that those who would stone her are also sinners in need of God’s mercy and that they no longer seek to stone her.
They weren’t trying to stone her – they were trying to bring a charge against Jesus. There is no reputable evidence that they would have stoned her – in fact if they did, they would have been executed by the Romans for violating Roman law.
She was in no real danger because this was a public assembly, and illegal at that if she were condemned. Crucifixion is a pretty nasty punishment for stoning someone illegally… The pharisees expected her to be aquitted all along, just not in the way Jesus aquitted her, whereby both they and her were shown to be sinners and Jesus was left untouched.
This can also be a message to us who might be tempted to look down on her. When Jesus asks where her accusers are I see this as a loving encouragement to the woman who probably was stricken with fear since they planning to stone her.
It’s a message to us OK, but since they weren’t planning to stone her it isn’t the same message you are thinking of – They were hoping to either get Jesus to set her free in violation of the Mosaic law, or they were hoping to get HIM to stone her – so the temple guards (and Romans) could arrest him, and murder HIM.

John 8:6 – This they said to test him, that they might some charge to bring against him.

The entire encounter had little to nothing to do with her – and the odds of her being stoned in a publicly arranged and advertized setting are ZERO – only a mob hiding their identity would dare try to do so.
Jesus question may have confirmed for her that she need not fear them further.
Oh, I don’t doubt that – she might have been paid to stand there naked in the full Jewish sense of the word – not a doubt sbe wasn’t worried. She had the Roman Law on her side – and the Pharisees and Scribes. She probably got paid handsomely to stand there even after they left – just one last attempt to force the issue…

In the Greek it says that she basically brought the evidence against herself – in English that is what is meant by “caught in the act” – she gave herself away.
She was willing to testify against herself at first – but as she is only one witness, case closed.
Jesus may also be freeing her to see the importance of not sinning against God by helping to relieve her temporal fear.
How does relieving ones fear make one LESS likely to sin? fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. I think the woman could have liked being a whore – ever watched cops when they talk to a new prostitute, to see what goes through their mind??? fear of STD’s, rape, murder does not outweigh the love for money and power. A whore is usually quite mental.
Sometimes asking a question can cause the one to whom the question is posed to think and reflect. Jesus asked Philip a question to test him. John 6:5
Right, but the text doesn’t say it was to test her – so we don’t know that.
There is plenty of textual evidence that it was done to avoid the trap set by the Pharisees. If he doesn’t condemn her – and it is on his own authority, he is discredited as a Jewish rabbi, if he does – the Romans kill him. Problem solved.

And, even should I grant all of these far fetched possibilities – the converse possibility that I have raised is still possible too. The matter is therefore undecided, rather than supporting of the the view in the original post.

Would alien abduction be a good possibility to add here?? (yes sarcasm, but it makes the point that even that argumen is possible and might convince part of the audience…)

Take a shot at me, I don’t mind – as long as you are polite.
Sometimes I learn things.

God bless you.
 
P.S. The specific Greek word for condemn is rare in the bible, in the NT it appears in all forms that I can find around 6 times or so.

Mark 14:64 – at Jesus’ trial, which was illegal. This would not be the ground he is crucified on – but Roman Law – so this condemnation had no value directly.

John 8:10, 8:11 – the one’s we’re looking at.

Romans 8:3 – Nestled in reference to the failure of the Law, the condemnation that the law was to inflict is finally inflicted.

Hebrews 11:7 – Noah is not making a personal opinion here, clearly.

and once in Peter somewhere…
 
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