Thriving Latin Mass Parish Closed!

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Dempsey1919

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I’ve just read this article on the Catholic Herald website:

catholicherald.co.uk/articles/a0000351.shtml

I can’t understand why the Bishop would close this parish, especially given the fact that it meets the spiritual needs of the traditionalist Catholics within his diocese. I’m sure there are other OF churches that could be closed; the parishioners of those churches would find it easier to join another Church which celebrates the OF, whereas those who prefer the EF will find it extremely hard to find another parish that celebrates the Tridentine Mass.

This doesn’t suprise me; the English Bishops were less than supportive of the Motu Proprio. I hope these people manage to find another parish which meets their needs.
 
I feel rather bad for the members of all six parishes closed. It is always tragic.

The article does not indicate whether there are other traditionalist parishes in the diocese, so it might not be wise to jump to conclusions. However, it is disappointing that the bishop does not seem to be encouraging the very reverent form of liturgy attempted at this particular parish. The article indicates that the bishop had not been there since before the priest was assigned, that reads to be about ten years.

Oddly, the closures are supposedly due to a lack of vocations but this priest, Father Lawler, is (according to the article) being shut out of another assignment. Strange doings. At least if he is going to be regarded as surplus anyway one would imagine he could be left in place.

Perhaps it is time for him to contact a traditionalist priestly fraternity.
 
Oddly, the closures are supposedly due to a lack of vocations but this priest, Father Lawler, is (according to the article) being shut out of another assignment. Strange doings. At least if he is going to be regarded as surplus anyway one would imagine he could be left in place.
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It is my opinion that Fr Lawler is being treated this way because of his traditionalist leanings, although I will admit that this is total speculation on my behalf.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
It is my opinion that Fr Lawler is being treated this way because of his traditionalist leanings, although I will admit that this is total speculation on my behalf.
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That was my suspicion, too, however it should be pointed out that Bishop Roche does not seem to have the visceral hatred for beauty and reverence that afflicts some. Here he encourages reverence for the Holy Name of Jesus and here he promotes the use of more beautiful and edifying language in the translation of the new Mass.
 
That was my suspicion, too, however it should be pointed out that Bishop Roche does not seem to have the visceral hatred for beauty and reverence that afflicts some. Here he encourages reverence for the Holy Name of Jesus and here he promotes the use of more beautiful and edifying language in the translation of the new Mass.
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He seems to be a very good Bishop. However, many Bishops do not like the idea of Latin Mass parishes because it could cause rifts within the diocese; they like the fact that the whole diocese is united in celebrating one form of the Mass. This is why some see the EF as divisive and harmful to unity. I recall reading that this was one of the main reasons for opposition to the EF.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
He seems to be a very good Bishop. However, many Bishops do not like the idea of Latin Mass parishes because it could cause rifts within the diocese; they like the fact that the whole diocese is united in celebrating one form of the Mass. This is why some see the EF as divisive and harmful to unity. I recall reading that this was one of the main reasons for opposition to the EF.
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I knew a trad who was so obsessive, she rejected the V2 Church altogether. Was she even Catholic?:confused:
 
I knew a trad who was so obsessive, she rejected the V2 Church altogether. Was she even Catholic?
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Yes, she’s still Catholic - although she’s severely misguided.

She obviously knows very little about Vatican II. How anyone can believe Vatican II is heretical is beyond me. She’s probably mixed up with some radical Traditionalists; these people think they’re more Catholic than the Pope.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
Yes, she’s still Catholic - although she’s severely misguided.

She obviously knows very little about Vatican II. How anyone can believe Vatican II is heretical is beyond me. She’s probably mixed up with some radical Traditionalists; these people think they’re more Catholic than the Pope.
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I used to be more catholic than the pope until I realized that I am not even a theologian much less a good catholic so how in the world am I supposed to be able to determine whether the council got it right or not. Besides Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. I left the schismatics and joined Rome. O Rome sweet home!
 
Dempsey1919 said:
Yes, she’s still Catholic - although she’s severely misguided.

She obviously knows very little about Vatican II. How anyone can believe Vatican II is heretical is beyond me. She’s probably mixed up with some radical Traditionalists; these people think they’re more Catholic than the Pope.
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But how can she still be Catholic if she rejects the teachings of every authority within it that promotes V2, including the Pope? Doesn’t that make her a schismatic?
 
moosears said:
I used to be more catholic than the pope until I realized that I am not even a theologian much less a good catholic so how in the world am I supposed to be able to determine whether the council got it right or not. Besides Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. I left the schismatics and joined Rome. O Rome sweet home!
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I hear you. I’ve always been Catholic, but there were times in the past when I was a very bad Catholic. Regrettably, my life in many ways has not conformed to the precepts of our faith. Over the last 15 years, I’ve worked hard to repair the damage. Consequently, I’m not able to preach righteousness or to be judgmental. The most I can do is share my love for Jesus Christ, and express my profound belief that there is no *true life *without Him.
 
But how can she still be Catholic if she rejects the teachings of every authority within it that promotes V2, including the Pope? Doesn’t that make her a schismatic?
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She was baptized and has received valid Sacraments of the Church; therefore, she is a Catholic - a sinful one. Her sin is disobedience. However, we are all sinners and I am not the one to judge.
 
The photograph of the interior of the parish church would indicate that the parish is a small one. It is a sad situation, but if vocations are declining, the smaller parishes are the first ones to lose their pastors, traditional or not. If one parish has two hundred families and another has a thousand, the parish with the thousand families will normally be the one that is kept open and staffed.

There are many small rural parishes in the US who have lost their resident priests. If not for the heroic efforts of a few retired priests, they would no longer have Sunday Masses, either. In the cities, though, it is my impression that it is more common to consolidate parishes. Those parishioners do not have to travel so far to find a different place to attend Mass. At any rate, it cannot be charitably assumed that the parish was chosen for closure by the bishop simply because it was a traditional parish. Its size is sufficient reason.

Pray for vocations!
 
EasterJoy said:
The photograph of the interior of the parish church would indicate that the parish is a small one. It is a sad situation, but if vocations are declining, the smaller parishes are the first ones to lose their pastors, traditional or not. If one parish has two hundred families and another has a thousand, the parish with the thousand families will normally be the one that is kept open and staffed.

There are many small rural parishes in the US who have lost their resident priests. If not for the heroic efforts of a few retired priests, they would no longer have Sunday Masses, either. In the cities, though, it is my impression that it is more common to consolidate parishes. Those parishioners do not have to travel so far to find a different place to attend Mass. At any rate, it cannot be charitably assumed that the parish was chosen for closure by the bishop simply because it was a traditional parish. Its size is sufficient reason.

Pray for vocations!
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Well there is some good news. I wish I could my hand on some numbers, but vocations within traditionalist orders such as the FSSP and ICRSS are booming. I believe that access to the TLM will increase as these seminarians begin to be ordained over the next couple of decades (I say decades, because formation within some of these orders, such as the ICRSS is 7 years, not including preformation (which can be as long as 2-3 years).

It’s interesting that many posters on these boards will point out that Summorum Pontificum doesn’t outright advocate the spread of the traditional liturgy yet at the same time it can’t help but spread as vocations continue to increase.

At any rate, the future for the traditional liturgy is looking quite bright.
 
Freshman88 said:
Well there is some good news. I wish I could my hand on some numbers, but vocations within traditionalist orders such as the FSSP and ICRSS are booming. I believe that access to the TLM will increase as these seminarians begin to be ordained over the next couple of decades (I say decades, because formation within some of these orders, such as the ICRSS is 7 years, not including preformation (which can be as long as 2-3 years).

It’s interesting that many posters on these boards will point out that Summorum Pontificum doesn’t outright advocate the spread of the traditional liturgy yet at the same time it can’t help but spread as vocations continue to increase.

At any rate, the future for the traditional liturgy is looking quite bright.
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I think you are right there. If traditional liturgy generates vocations, then priests who are eager to offer it will rise accordingly. Children learn what they live, and grow up to live what they’ve learned.
 
St. Peter’s, the only TLM parish in the Albany, NY diocese, was also listed among parishes which may soon be closed. Not because of an anti-TLM mentality, although I have seen that a bit in this diocese, but because of diocesan budgeting in general. Requesting prayers to keep it open.
 
Apparently, Bishop Roche was hostile to Summorum Pontificum (the motu proprio that made the traditional Mass more available). At least he will allow another parish in the area to have a Latin Mass after he shuts down St John the Evangelist.

More reading on the closing of St. John here, here and here.

I agree with Hesychios that it is odd that with a priest shortage, Fr Lawler is not being given an assignment. One of the parishioners also claimed that the parish is self-supporting. If so, I don’t know why parish and priest could not have been left in peace.
 
MikeDunphy said:
I agree with Hesychios that it is odd that with a priest shortage, Fr Lawler is not being given an assignment. One of the parishioners also claimed that the parish is self-supporting. If so, I don’t know why parish and priest could not have been left in peace.
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The reason that the parish was closed and the reason that the priest has not been reassigned yet could be totally unrelated. That’s between Fr. Lawler and his bishop. There might be any number of reasons on either side that a new assignment has been delayed.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I’ve just read this article on the Catholic Herald website:

catholicherald.co.uk/articles/a0000351.shtml

I can’t understand why the Bishop would close this parish, especially given the fact that it meets the spiritual needs of the traditionalist Catholics within his diocese. I’m sure there are other OF churches that could be closed; the parishioners of those churches would find it easier to join another Church which celebrates the OF, whereas those who prefer the EF will find it extremely hard to find another parish that celebrates the Tridentine Mass.

This doesn’t suprise me; the English Bishops were less than supportive of the Motu Proprio. I hope these people manage to find another parish which meets their needs.
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That is just terrible!

For those who find themselves in this situation, I would recommend that you yourself remain in union with Rome by taking advantage of Code of Canon Law # 844.2 which allows you to attend/receive Sacraments in the Eastern Orthodox Churches which are not in union with Rome for all Catholics “for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister”.

The Eastern Catholic Churches do not celebrate the Latin Mass (which was started sometime around 700 ad) but they celebrate the St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil Divine Liturgies (which were started in the 300’s and were simply a shortening of the original Divine Liturgy/Mass started by St. James the Apostle).

For any who are faced with this terrible situation of Church closures and possible necessity of changing to a Traditional Church not in communion with Rome, I invite you to take a look at this Canon and see if you would rather remain in union with Rome by attending an Eastern Orthodox Church.
 
StMarina303ad said:
That is just terrible!

For those who find themselves in this situation, I would recommend that you yourself remain in union with Rome by taking advantage of Code of Canon Law # 844.2 which allows you to attend/receive Sacraments in the Eastern Orthodox Churches which are not in union with Rome for all Catholics “for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister”.

The Eastern Catholic Churches do not celebrate the Latin Mass (which was started sometime around 700 ad) but they celebrate the St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil Divine Liturgies (which were started in the 300’s and were simply a shortening of the original Divine Liturgy/Mass started by St. James the Apostle).

For any who are faced with this terrible situation of Church closures and possible necessity of changing to a Traditional Church not in communion with Rome, I invite you to take a look at this Canon and see if you would rather remain in union with Rome by attending an Eastern Orthodox Church.
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The Roman Church may allow Roman Catholics to receive the sacraments at Eastern Orthodox Churches, but the Easter Orthodox do not allow it, do they?
 
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