Through Jewish eyes: validity of Christianity

[Filius_Prodigus]

aaronjo;4126805:

As per Jewish law, worshipping a three-part god is idolatry

It is one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew will rather give up his/her life than transgress.

Thatswhy during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

Haven’t you been shown to be a Muslim, aaronjo?

And why have Jews given up their lives rather than convert to Islam?

Aaronjo might be more on target than you think. That may be the view that many Jews may have. After all, if they thought Christianity were valid, they’d most probably be Christian.

Of course the Christian God is not threefold. God is one, no matter how hard to understand the doctrine of the trinity may be.

I have also heard that many Jews believe Christianity to be wrong because they adore a man as God. That is a distorted view since Jesus is adored in his divinity. There is only one God in Christianity.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I know, but personally i didn’t think it was wise to open that can of worms, I didn’t imply that reformed Judaism was more valid, only that i didn’t consider Jews for Jesus to be a valid Jewish faith.

Peace be with you.
Sincerely,
Iggy

I don’t question their Judaism, and that they are a valid Hebrew religion. I question their Christianity, and the “evangelical” distortions thereof.

Btw, because of the influx of Russian Jews, and the HUGE number of conversions (something I saw in 1992, and from what I understand, has just increased), and the diminishing numbers of Arabs because of the general troubles and mismanagement by Greek phylatists , the Patriarchate of Jerusalem may have a Hebrew majority now. 70 A.D. is being undone in more ways than one.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Aaronjo might be more on target than you think. That may be the view that many Jews may have. After all, if they thought Christianity were valid, they’d most probably be Christian.

Of course the Christian God is not threefold. God is one, no matter how hard to understand the doctrine of the trinity may be.

I have also heard that many Jews believe Christianity to be wrong because they adore a man as God. That is a distorted view since Jesus is adored in his divinity. There is only one God in Christianity.

I have no problem, besides the obvious, with Jewish criticism of Christianity from a Jew. I don’t have much use for Jewish criticism of Christianity from a Muslim.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Saying that Judaism is a wide range of religions is incorrect. You are applying a Christian concept of religion to Judaism.

So where do the Reformed fit in your thinking?

Jews have their own way of thinking

Do the Jews for Jesus loose it?

which can be demonstrated in the following anecdote:
The Jewish Mind…

Only if you are Jewish (or very friendly with Jews and therefore intuitively understand the Jewish mind) will you understand this reasoning.

After months of negotiation with the authorities, a Talmudist from Odessa was finally granted permission to visit Moscow. He boarded the train and found an empty seat. At the next stop, a young man got on and sat next to him.

The scholar looked at the young man and he thought: This fellow doesn’t look like a peasant, so if he is no peasant he probably comes from this district. If he comes from this district, then he must be Jewish because this is, after all, a Jewish district. But on the other hand, since he is a Jew, where could he be going? I’m the only Jew in our district who has permission to travel to Moscow.

Ahh, wait! Just outside Moscow there is a little village called Samvet, and

Jews don’t need special permission to go to Samvet. But why would he travel to Samvet? He is surely going to visit one of the Jewish families there. But how many Jewish families are there in Samvet? Aha, only two - the Bernsteins and the Steinbergs. But since the Bernsteins are a terrible family, so such a nice looking fellow like him, he must be visiting the Steinbergs. But why is he going to the Steinbergs in Samvet?

The Steinbergs have only daughters, two of them. So maybe he’s their

son-in-law. But if he is, then which daughter did he marry? They say that Sarah Steinberg married a nice lawyer from Budapest, and Esther married a businessman from Zhitomer, so it must be Sarah’s husband. Which means that his name is Alexander Cohen, if I’m not mistaken.

But if he came from Budapest, with all the anti-Semitism they have there, he must have changed his name. What’s the Hungarian equivalent of Cohen? It is Kovacs. But since they allowed him to change his name, he must have special status to change it. What could it be? Must be a doctorate from the University. Nothing less would do.

At this point, therefore, the scholar of Talmud turns to the young man and says, “Excuse me. Do you mind if I open the window, Dr. Kovacs?” “Not at all”, answered the startled co-passenger. “But how is it that you know my name?”

“Ahhh,” replied the Talmudist, “It was obvious.”

Interesting story.

Btw, I have responded:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4128795&highlight=shiksa#post4128795

 

[tundramom]

Only if you are Jewish (or very friendly with Jews and therefore intuitively understand the Jewish mind) will you understand this reasoning.

ROFL!! That was good.

When my husband and I went to Israel in 2001 I went into a beautiful shop to buy a prayer shawl. After about 45 minutes I had the shawl and three bottles of Ahava hand cream thrown in. I paid half the price originally asked.

The gentleman at the counter said to me, “Ahhhh You must be Jewish!”

I’m not but it was a good compliment!

in Christ
Steph

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Saying that Judaism is a wide range of religions is incorrect. You are applying a Christian concept of religion to Judaism. Jews have their own way of thinking which can be demonstrated in the following anecdote:
The Jewish Mind…

I have to point out that most Orthodox Jews seem to disagree.

Only if you are Jewish (or very friendly with Jews and therefore intuitively understand the Jewish mind) will you understand this reasoning.

…:ehh:

After months of negotiation with the authorities, a Talmudist from Odessa was finally granted permission to visit Moscow. He boarded the train and found an empty seat. At the next stop, a young man got on and sat next to him.

The scholar looked at the young man and he thought: This fellow doesn’t look like a peasant, so if he is no peasant he probably comes from this district. If he comes from this district, then he must be Jewish because this is, after all, a Jewish district. But on the other hand, since he is a Jew, where could he be going? I’m the only Jew in our district who has permission to travel to Moscow.

Non Sequator, he could have been secret police, or he could have been a visitor to Odessa from Moscow and was just returning home.

Ahh, wait! Just outside Moscow there is a little village called Samvet, and
Jews don’t need special permission to go to Samvet. But why would he travel to Samvet? He is surely going to visit one of the Jewish families there. But how many Jewish families are there in Samvet? Aha, only two - the Bernsteins and the Steinbergs. But since the Bernsteins are a terrible family, so such a nice looking fellow like him, he must be visiting the Steinbergs. But why is he going to the Steinbergs in Samvet?

An error in the beginning is an error indeed, as pointed out he need not be Jewish, and may ave come from Moscow. Assuming he is Jewish and headed to Samvet, he could be visiting the Bernsteins, being a good looking young man in no way precludes his parents from being ugly in temperament, and only diminishes the likelihood of them being ugly in appearance.

The Steinbergs have only daughters, two of them. So maybe he’s their son-in-law. But if he is, then which daughter did he marry? They say that Sarah Steinberg married a nice lawyer from Budapest, and Esther married a businessman from Zhitomer, so it must be Sarah’s husband. Which means that his name is Alexander Cohen, if I’m not mistaken.

But if he came from Budapest, with all the anti-Semitism they have there, he must have changed his name. What’s the Hungarian equivalent of Cohen? It is Kovacs. But since they allowed him to change his name, he must have special status to change it. What could it be? Must be a doctorate from the University. Nothing less would do.

As shown above he needn’t even be Alexander Cohen, but assuming he was, he could just as easily (and statistically more likely.) have changed his name to Nagy, it would have been just like someone formerly named Ahmed moving to America and changing his name to Smith. Then we move on to my favorite part, he must have changed his name, but in order to change his name he would need some exceptional and difficult to obtain status therefore, rather than say, “Well perhaps he would have liked a name change but had to suffer with all the others for lack of one,” we instead assume that he had said exceptional position! Do I need to point out how little sense this makes?

At this point, therefore, the scholar of Talmud turns to the young man and says, “Excuse me. Do you mind if I open the window, Dr. Kovacs?” “Not at all”, answered the startled co-passenger. “But how is it that you know my name?”

“Ahhh,” replied the Talmudist, “It was obvious.”

The young man would far more likely have said “I’m sorry who?”. There are far to many unaccounted for variables, the premises were all too weak to go on, if he felt compelled to say anything at all, it would have been wiser to say “You wouldn’t happen to be Dr. Alexander Kovács would you?”. I sincerely hope that this is not a good example of Jewish thought, I certainly don’t believe you when you say it is. Finally, the question I’ve been most eager to ask is: What does this have to do with the price of tea in china?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I have to point out that most Orthodox Jews seem to disagree.

…:ehh:

Non Sequator, he could have been secret police, or he could have been a visitor to Odessa from Moscow and was just returning home.

An error in the beginning is an error indeed, as pointed out he need not be Jewish, and may ave come from Moscow. Assuming he is Jewish and headed to Samvet, he could be visiting the Bernsteins, being a good looking young man in no way precludes his parents from being ugly in temperament, and only diminishes the likelihood of them being ugly in appearance.

As shown above he needn’t even be Alexander Cohen, but assuming he was, he could just as easily (and statistically more likely.) have changed his name to Nagy, it would have been just like someone formerly named Ahmed moving to America and changing his name to Smith. Then we move on to my favorite part, he must have changed his name, but in order to change his name he would need some exceptional and difficult to obtain status therefore, rather than say, “Well perhaps he would have liked a name change but had to suffer with all the others for lack of one,” we instead assume that he had said exceptional position! Do I need to point out how little sense this makes?

The young man would far more likely have said “I’m sorry who?”. There are far to many unaccounted for variables, the premises were all too weak to go on, if he felt compelled to say anything at all, it would have been wiser to say “You wouldn’t happen to be Dr. Alexander Kovács would you?”. I sincerely hope that this is not a good example of Jewish thought, I certainly don’t believe you when you say it is. Finally, the question I’ve been most eager to ask is: What does this have to do with the price of tea in china?

LOL. I have to agree with Chosen People.

Only if you are Jewish (or very friendly with Jews and therefore intuitively understand the Jewish mind) will you understand this reasoning.

 

[Valke2]

Oh?
I Macc. 4:59 And Judas, and his brethren, and all the church of Israel decreed, that the day of the dedication of the altar should be kept in its season from year to year for eight days, from the five and twentieth day of the month of Kislev, with joy and gladness

my mistake. But not really. The holiday of Hanukah is not actually mentioned. I am not familar with the text of Maccabees. However, according to Wikipedia, the celebration is based on a story that took place prior to the revolt.

“The story of Hanukkah is alluded to in the books of 1 Maccabees and 2 Maccabees of the Septuagint but Hanukkah is not specially mentioned; rather, a story similar in character, and obviously older in date, is the one alluded to in 2 Maccabees 1:18 et seq according to which the relighting of the altar fire by Nehemiah was due to a miracle which occurred on the twenty-fifth of Kislev, and which appears to be given as the reason for the selection of the same date for the rededication of the altar by Judah Maccabeus.”

 

[Valke2]

Many Jews don’t meet those prerequisites. I’ve known many Conservative Jews who were such because the Orthodox would not accept them, as their mother wasn’t Jewish. Hence the reason why the “Who is a Jew?” became such an uproar in the 80s.

Conservative Judaism requires the mother to be jewish as well.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Conservative Judaism requires the mother to be jewish as well.

I can’t speak for them, but it seemed that the Conservative Jews accepted their “conversion” better.

 

[Valke2]

I can’t speak for them, but it seemed that the Conservative Jews accepted their “conversion” better.

I didn’t mean to imply that conservative jews don’t accept converts. You are right in that orthdox generally don’t accept jews who went through a conservative conversion. They require them to go through an orthodox conversion. Which I find a bit odd as there is virtually no difference between the two except for which rabbis are in charge.

 

[reen12]

…The same way that I find specious Christianity seeking to interpret the Tanach in contravention of Jewish beliefs, the same must be said for any Jew who falls into the same trap by trying to interpret Christian scriptures against Christian beliefs. .

Surely agree.

reen12

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I didn’t mean to imply that conservative jews don’t accept converts. You are right in that orthdox generally don’t accept jews who went through a conservative conversion. They require them to go through an orthodox conversion. Which I find a bit odd as there is virtually no difference between the two except for which rabbis are in charge.

Actually, with the persons I am speaking of, they would/did go through an Orthodox conversion, but were not excepted nonetheless. I understand that is against halakha, but that is what they, and others with Jewish mothers, told me.

I recall something in the Talmud where ger (converts) are told that during the prayers, where the phrase “our Fathers” is utttered, they must say “their Father.”

 

[Valke2]

Actually, with the persons I am speaking of, they would/did go through an Orthodox conversion, but were not excepted nonetheless. I understand that is against halakha, but that is what they, and others with Jewish mothers, told me.

I recall something in the Talmud where ger (converts) are told that during the prayers, where the phrase “our Fathers” is utttered, they must say “their Father.”

I would have to say that the vast majority of jews, orthodox or otherwise, accept any jew who has gone through a proper conversion. When a Jew converts, he is adopted into Abraham’s family and his or her fathers are the same as any other Jew. (i.e., the patriarchs).