Throwing infants against rocks ? Is it justified in the Bible?

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I am having trouble understanding Psalm 137 : 9 “Happy is the one who will seize and dash your infants against the rock!”
What exactly is this referring to?
 
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I believe it’s referring to the fact that God’s people intermarried with pagans & subsequently had children who were not raised to honor the Lord alone as Israel was to do vis a vis its covenant with God. In some instances of Israel’s infidelity to God, the traitors to the covenant were killed along with their (pagan) children. In some cases they were left to integrate into pagan culture and no longer be among Gods Chosen People. Happiness is referenced because when Israel has then finally separated itself from false gods and returned with its hole heart to God, happiness results.

Not commenting on why God did it this way - just on what I believe the psalm is referring to.
 
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Happy is the one who will seize and dash your infants against the rock!”
What exactly is this referring to?
Not to try to pick a bone, but it is unfair to judge moral issues with a twenty first century understanding of moral law matters which occurred 2500 to 5000 years ago.

As it has been said elsewhere many times, the Hebrew statement of “Thou shalt not kill” is not a word for word translation; more accurately it should be “Thou shalt not kill an innocent person”.

The world of the Israelites was a tumultuous one with enemies surrounding them, and battles and wars pretty much a guaranteed fact of existence. God promised them the land, and others who had been occupying it for decades if not centuries had an opinion that the Israelites were invaders; and subsequent to the Israelites establishing the land as theirs, other tribes sought to capture or recapture that land.

As time passed on, it was clear that enemies of Israel once defeated did not remain so; and the concept that every person, including children and women were enemies - those kids would grow up hearing stories of their enemy Israel and the “evil” (perceived) done to the tribe - thus setting up the next round of attacks and wars.

We have now the history of the Israelites to meditate upon, as well as the last two thousand years and the revelation which 0Christ gave us to reflect upon and to further refine our understanding of moral law. Intentionally kiulling the children of our enemies is certainly now not condoned. But we have the 2500 to 5000 years of history, plus the revelation of Christ - which they did not have.

The Church is contextualist in reading Scripture, not literalist. And the context of moral law

One also needs to keep in mind that while other passages in the OT may speak of every last person in a family/group/area was wiped out, that may be literally true, it may have an overlay of hyperbole. Presuming that it is always literally just as written may well be over-reaching.
 
it may have an overlay of hyperbole.
Hopefully it is a metaphor of some sort. Otherwise, we have the situation where infants are responsible for the sins of their fathers. Such a belief might be used to justify abortion in the case of rape.
 
Q: Is throwing infants against rocks justified in the Bible?

A: No.

If you’re curious about the context and Catholic interpretation of what are often called the imprecatory psalms (basically, those psalms that express the angry side of anguish that can exist in a human heart, using curse language, etc), I can offer a couple thoughts as I’ve heard discussed by priests, nuns, and monks, but I’m sure there’s much more than I’ll mention, so the term imprecatory psalm will probably be helpful for you to know for googling after CAF closes. 🙂

The main points that pop to my head about the baby-rocks psalm are:
  1. We have to remember that in the context, the writer of this psalm is probably putting pen to paper about his own retaliatory feelings after his own children were murdered. Wishing an equal fate on his enemy’s children is not virtuous – but God can ‘take it’. That is, while not every feeling or thought on our hearts is a beautiful thing – we can be honest about it to God, and let Him transform our thoughts from evil to good. Every Catholic who has been honest about his or her evil thoughts in the Confessional will be familiar with this. Sometimes the truth we have to tell about ourselves, the honest truth we lay bare for God, reveals anguish and anger in the heart.
  2. As Catholics, we view the Old Testament through the lens of the New Testament. So since in the New Testament it is made clear that our enemies are not flesh and blood, but powers and principalities, it is traditional to seek spiritually fruitful meaning from the warfare imagery preserved in the OT. In this case: The little babies represent for us ‘baby’ sins, that have barely begun to grow. Venial sins, or whatever we think of as ‘small’ sins that we tolerate and don’t think of as too dangerous yet, and might even have a certain affection for. But God calls us to put to death every sin in ourselves, even the ‘little’ ones – because left ‘alive’, those little sins grow, and grow, and grow, into dangerous big sins. So we dash those baby sins against the rock.
I’ve also heard commentary about the Rock of Peter and there actually being a traditional benevolent interpretation about baptizing infants, but it’s not one of the interpretations I’m more familiar with.
 
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If you look at the whole of Psalm 137, it’s talking about the exile of the Jews at the hands of the Babylonians and how they hope God will punish the Babylonians for this.

The “he” in this Psalm could refer to God, who in that time was held to punish a sinful community by destroying it entirely.
 
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P.S. Though a different one of the Bible books (Genesis), I thought I’d just toss in here an example of how we have OT examples that condemn unjust violence of (arguably) a lesser degree than killing children.

When Simeon and Levi tricked and killed the males of Shechem (after the prince of Shechem raped Dinah), there’s no mention that they killed any children; rather, it says they took the children and women captive. But for treacherously killing the adult males, Simeon and Levi’s father (Jacob: Israel himself) basically denounces these sons on his deathbed.

When Jacob calls his sons to give them each a blessing (or, uh, not – as the case may be), this is what he says to those two sons (Genesis 49:5-7):
5 Simeon and Levi are brothers; weapons of violence are their swords.
6 O my soul, come not into their council; O my spirit, be not joined to their company; for in their anger they slay men, and in their wantonness they hamstring oxen.
7 Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce; and their wrath, for it is cruel! I will divide them in Jacob and scatter them in Israel.
Pretty strong words against violence and anger, there, from one of the preeminent patriarchs: the eponymous Israel himself.

I’m only mentioning this to begin to scratch the surface of how we must read the Bible carefully, and probably in a guided way (what’s that? There’s a Church with a Tradition?) to avoid accidentally seeing a snippet out of context and imagine its inclusion in an ancient book means that the religion associated with the collection of books, consider that one snippet from that one book to be a model for behaviour (justifying modern day child-murder condemned by the religion, no less), rather than a snippet from a book from a place and time and larger context, requiring contextual understanding.
 
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Hopefully it is a metaphor of some sort. Otherwise, we have the situation where infants are responsible for the sins of their fathers. Such a belief might be used to justify abortion in the case of rape.
Read the total ow what I wrote. It is likely either a factual statement or hyperbole. It has nothing to do with justifying rape or abortion. Anyone trying to use it to justify either is taking it entirely our of context.
 
I am having trouble understanding Psalm 137 : 9 “Happy is the one who will seize and dash your infants against the rock!”
What exactly is this referring to?
D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 9. Dash thy little ones, &c. In the spiritual sense, we dash the little ones of Babylon against the rock, when we mortify our passions, and stifle the first motions of them, by a speedy recourse to the rock, which is Christ. (Challoner) (St. Augustine) (St. Gregory) (Psalm l.) (Worthington) — We do not read that Cyrus treated Babylon with this rigour; but such practices were then customary, (Osee xiv. 1.; Homer, Iliad xxii.) and Darius cruelly punished the revolted city. (Herodotus iii. 159.) (Calmet) — God will reward those who execute his decrees (Haydock) against Babylon. (Worthington) — The psalmist contrasts the felicity of the conqueror, with the misery of the citizens, without approving of his conduct. (Berthier)
 
I am having trouble understanding Psalm 137 : 9 “Happy is the one who will seize and dash your infants against the rock!”
What exactly is this referring to?
Here’s how I’ve always approached this verse:
  • It’s necessary to read the Bible in context, and not proof-text a single verse:
    • The wider context of this entire Psalm is a lament over the injustices imposed on the Jews at the hands of the Babylonians (i.e., during the Babylonian Exile).
    • The immediate context is found not only in verse 9, but begins with verse 8:
O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall he be who requites you with what you have done to us! Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
  • So, in this context, the psalmist is saying that he feels like the children of Israel have been bashed against the rock, and is calling out for vengeance in kind.
  • And yet, they’re still calling for the murder of children, aren’t they? Well… not quite, I don’t think:
    • The ‘person’ being identified here is the nation of Babylon, not a human, as such.
    • So, it’s the “little ones of Babylon” – that is, the citizens of their ‘mother’, Babylon – who are being referenced, isn’t it?
  • Still, isn’t the psalmist going a little too far? I’m not sure: in the book of Nahum, we see a prophecy of the fate of Assyria (this was prior to the fall of that country). There, we see the following prophecy:
Yet even [Thebes] became an exile, and went into captivity;
Even her little ones were dashed to pieces at the corner of every street;
For her nobles they cast lots, and all her great ones were put into chains.

You, too, will drink of this; you will be overcome
  • Note that the prophet isn’t saying merely that Assyria will face this horror; he’s pointing to the experience of the overthrow of Thebes in the past.
  • So, whether this is merely allegory or actual description, it seems to be (in the context of the place and time) a description of the fate of those who are overthrown.
So, how to understand these two verses in this Psalm? The psalmist is alluding to what has occurred to the Jews, and wishing that his oppressors feel the same pain in the future. It’s a cry of anguish by someone in pain.
 
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The previous verse shows the reasoning

Psalms 137:8-9
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

Nowadays, if somebody dash an infant’s head against the rocks, the criminal court will examine the witnesses (just as God’s Law commands it too: there should be two witnesses), examine the crime scene, and the crime court will decide what to do with him. It will be a sure thing he will not get away with it.

The principle of Justice is still used until today.

Letting people get away with what they do, is not the same as being merciful. Only if the family (the parents) of that infant, if they so choose (freewill) to forgive, then the perpetrator can getaway with it.

An eye for an eye principle, is still use today. If one owe $1M, can he pay with only $900,000?

Spiritually, the same principle. If one do something bad to other people, he (paternalistic line) can expect the Lord will repay to his family the way he did it to others family.

And God’s Law takes place regardless we understand it or we are ignorant of it, whether we acknowledge it or ignore it.

For those who come to Jesus for salvation, God will not repay to him according to his sins. God will give him grace to repent. But if he refuse (he has been given freewill), it is up to Him what to do.
 
As Joyful Tune has been doing with her ‘rapist seed screed’ on another thread, Problem with the Catholic Church’s teaching on abortion’.
 
I am having trouble understanding Psalm 137 : 9 “Happy is the one who will seize and dash your infants against the rock!”
What exactly is this referring to?
This is an imprecatory Psalm wherein the exiled peoples of Judah are crying out to God for justice against the Edomites who attacked the survivors of the Babylonian invasion and destruction of Israel. They are essentially crying out that the suffering the Edomites inflicted on Israel will in turn be inflicted on the Edomites. And it was. Eventually the main cities of Edom were razed to the ground for rebellion against Babylon.
 
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As Joyful Tune has been doing with her ‘rapist seed screed’ on another thread, Problem with the Catholic Church’s teaching on abortion’.
@stpurl,

I respect your passion to save the unborn. I am just as pro-life as you. I disagree to say abortion in rape cases is murder.

I believe that God’s Law & God’s Justice be upheld to utmost respect, and not to be ignored, in the name of false “moral”, because God who is Mercyful, He is The God who is Just too.

The core of Moral Theology is The Law of God.

If “Thou shall not commit adultery” or “Thou shall not kill” is ignored, or belittled by an interpretation of “what moral is”, then, this interpretation is just as much a slippery slope because it indirectly permitting adultery or murder, or rape. So, up to this point, where & how the foundation to stand on? Theology that deviate to the left or to the right, is relativism.

Psalms 137:9 does not ignore “Thou shall not kill”. Instead, it “repays you according to what you have done to us.” (verse 8).

meaning, to punish a person according to the offence, is not immoral. Capital punishment for murder is not immoral. Abortion in rape case is not immoral.

Exodus 22
22 You shall not oppress any widow or orphan. 23 If you harm them, and they cry out to Me, I will hear them; 24 and My anger will blaze, and I will kill you with the sword, and your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless


I am for persuading gently women not to abort. Helping them if they would and able to accept. I am against condemning raped victims who choose abotion as murderers. The latter is moral theology gone too far. It is wrong, and it is against God’s Justice in the bible (or justice principle in general). Whatever Unjust is Immoral too, because it angers God.
 
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JoyfulTune:
I respect your passion to save the unborn. I am just as pro-life as you.
No you’re not.
Is it a contest?
🤔
 
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