Thurs (8-19) mass readings

[distracted]

August 19, 2010
Thursday of the Twentieth Week in Ordinary Time

Thurs (8-19) mass readings / commentary (God will prove Himself to the nations as holy / People reject God’s invitation to his banquet & He gets very angry / the one with no “wedding garment” is thrown into outer darkness / [Purgatory?] / No OSAS)

Reading 1

Ez 36:23-28

***Thus says the LORD:
I will prove the holiness of my great name,
profaned among the nations, ***
in whose midst you have profaned it.
Thus the nations shall know that I am the LORD, says the Lord GOD,
when in their sight I prove my holiness through you.
For I will take you away from among the nations,
gather you from all the foreign lands,
and bring you back to your own land.
I will sprinkle clean water upon you
to cleanse you from all your impurities,
and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you,
taking from your bodies your stony hearts
and giving you natural hearts.
I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes,
careful to observe my decrees.
You shall live in the land I gave your ancestors;
you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Ps. 51:12-13, 14-15, 18-19Responsorial Psalm. (Ezekiel 36:25)

I will pour clean water on you and wash away all your sins.
A clean heart create for me, O God,
and a steadfast spirit renew within me.
Cast me not out from your presence,
and your Holy Spirit take not from me.
R. I will pour clean water on you and wash away all your sins.
Give me back the joy of your salvation,
and a willing spirit sustain in me.
I will teach transgressors your ways,
and sinners shall return to you.
R. I will pour clean water on you and wash away all your sins.
For you are not pleased with sacrifices;
should I offer a burnt offering, you would not accept it.
My sacrifice, O God, is a contrite spirit;
a heart contrite and humbled, O God, you will not spurn.
R. I will pour clean water on you and wash away all your sins.

Mt 22:1-14Gospel

Jesus again in reply spoke to the chief priests and the elders of the people in parables saying, “The Kingdom of Heaven may be likened to a king
who gave a wedding feast for his son.
He dispatched his servants to summon the invited guests to the feast,
but they refused to come.
A second time he sent other servants, saying,
‘Tell those invited: “Behold, I have prepared my banquet,
my calves and fattened cattle are killed,
and everything is ready; come to the feast.”’
Some ignored the invitation and went away,
one to his farm, another to his business.
The rest laid hold of his servants,
mistreated them, and killed them.
The king was enraged and sent his troops,
destroyed those murderers, and burned their city.
Then the king said to his servants, ‘The feast is ready,
but those who were invited were not worthy to come.
Go out, therefore, into the main roads
and invite to the feast whomever you find.’
The servants went out into the streets
and gathered all they found, bad and good alike,
and the hall was filled with guests.
But when the king came in to meet the guests
he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment.
He said to him, ‘My friend, how is it
that you came in here without a wedding garment?’
But he was reduced to silence.
Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Bind his hands and feet,
and cast him into the darkness outside,
where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’
Many are invited, but few are chosen.”

.
.
***God intervenes to show eveyrone His holiness, even though people profane His name. He knows we weak, frail, stupid, inept humans constantly need His intervention… We are so forgetful of Him

The wedding garment… hmm… :coffeeread: I’ve always wondered what that was, exactly, but whatever it is, it is necessary to get into Heaven. I say it is Holiness**. Elsewhere it says that without holiness it is impossible to please God. We must have the cloak of Jesus Christ, who is Absolute Holiness… around us… in order to get into Heaven (or Purgatory-then-Heaven). Of course this person who was bound & thrown out of the “banquet” wasn’t IN Heaven because once you are there you are never thrown out… I guess he could have been at the entrance of Heaven??

i wonder if he was in Purgatory? or was he thrown into Purgatory? I mean, how did he manage to get into the banquet in he 1st place if he didn’t have the right “garment” on? What does “the banquet” exactly signify?

In my opinion, this psg is futher evidence of the doctrine of Purgatory (not that we catechized Catholics need any further proof??). I say this because the King (God) says to the guy, “My friend…” Why does He call him “friend” if he is NOT his friend? Those who are not God’s friends go to Hell… Hmmm… *

 

[GEddie]

I doubt that “the outer darkness” is Purgatory, because there is no suggestion that the “victim” will later be freed from it.

In this kind of a society, the King’s word is absolute. If he binds your limbs, who will release you? If he casts you away, who will reinstate you?

Purgatory would be to be made to change your garments. The culprit in this instance was given no such second chance. You don’t change clothes in outer darkness, and certainly not with your limbs bound!

Notice the human imagery there: bound limbs, and darkness. Definitely NOT a situation we as human beings ever want to see. We should pray every day that when we see Eternity we will be “properly clothed.”

ICXC NIKA.

 

[distracted]

I doubt that “the outer darkness” is Purgatory, because there is no suggestion that the “victim” will later be freed from it.

In this kind of a society, the King’s word is absolute. If he binds your limbs, who will release you? If he casts you away, who will reinstate you?

Purgatory would be to be made to change your garments. The culprit in this instance was given no such second chance. You don’t change clothes in outer darkness, and certainly not with your limbs bound!

Notice the human imagery there: bound limbs, and darkness. Definitely NOT a situation we as human beings ever want to see. We should pray every day that when we see Eternity we will be “properly clothed.”

ICXC NIKA.

interesting points… i never really thought it ws Purgatory… until i posted those readings… but was wondering… cuz the King calls the guy Friend… What do you think of that?

 

[GEddie]

interesting points… i never really thought it ws Purgatory… until i posted those readings… but was wondering… cuz the King calls the guy Friend… What do you think of that?

I hadn’t really thought of that, and would need to be fluent in the idiomatic usage in Aramaic to form a good opinion.

But even in English, the term friend is often used ironically where no friendship relation exists; I’d think something similar existed in the Aramiac used by our LORD.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[distracted]

I hadn’t really thought of that, and would need to be fluent in the idiomatic usage in Aramaic to form a good opinion.

But even in English, the term friend is often used ironically where no friendship relation exists; I’d think something similar existed in the Aramiac used by our LORD.

ICXC NIKA.

its funny cuz sometimes when i used to hear this reading, i would think of that… how that word is often used… well, maybe sarcastically - or as you say Ironically…

Still, i am wondering if Jesus uses irony or sarcasm??

 

[GKCT]

I too wondered about the wedding garment and if he was “friend” why would Jesus throw him out. I am going to solve this little mystery tomorrow after Mass. I don’t think it is purgatory either, but hell. And why wouldn’t Jesus forgive him? Because he was not repentant?

 

[distracted]

I too wondered about the wedding garment and if he was “friend” why would Jesus throw him out. I am going to solve this little mystery tomorrow after Mass. I don’t think it is purgatory either, but hell. And why wouldn’t Jesus forgive him? Because he was not repentant?

i would assume so… but if he wasn’t repentant… why was @ the banquet?

 

[GEddie]

i would assume so… but if he wasn’t repentant… why was @ the banquet?

(my average-sinner’s MX$2)

“The Banquet” is Heaven; the entrance is the Judgement; and the garment is the Divine Life of our LORD. We have to be covered up by HIM; “swallowed up by life” ie 1Co15; and, you don’t get any 2nd chance because you’d be dead already. There’s no changing room at the Judgement.

(/MX$2)

ICXC NIKA

 

[milkbar]

I’m wondering if the person who was tossed out is perhaps symbolic of a non-Catholic Christian, or even a non-practicing Catholic, who rejects a key doctrine of the Church… perhaps Reconciliation?.. and therefore that person expects to be included in the banquet but, by their own choice, by their own inaction, they are without their “wedding garment” (the Church is the bride…) and therefore are unfit to enter…

 

[milkbar]

Indeed, “He was reduced to silence.” …Like Romans 1:20… no excuse. No defense.

 

[distracted]

I’m wondering if the person who was tossed out is perhaps symbolic of a non-Catholic Christian, or even a non-practicing Catholic, who rejects a key doctrine of the Church… perhaps Reconciliation?.. and therefore that person expects to be included in the banquet but, by their own choice, by their own inaction, they are without their “wedding garment” (the Church is the bride…) and therefore are unfit to enter…

sounds good to me…

 

[distracted]

Indeed, “He was reduced to silence.” …Like Romans 1:20… no excuse. No defense.

as a former Baptist…

wht 1st changed your mind about the Church?

 

[GKCT]

So I asked this priest who has a doctorate in theology. What he said was the wedding garment was symbolic of the state of grace. The bindings signified unrepentance and therefore not being forgiven of his sins. He was being punished.

 

[distracted]

So I asked this priest who has a doctorate in theology. What he said was the wedding garment was symbolic of the state of grace. The bindings signified unrepentance and therefore not being forgiven of his sins. He was being punished.

makes sense… and doesn’t contradict my own thoughts on the matter…

 

[GEddie]

its funny cuz sometimes when i used to hear this reading, i would think of that… how that word is often used… well, maybe sarcastically - or as you say Ironically…

Still, i am wondering if Jesus uses irony or sarcasm??

Why wouldn’t HE? As a human being, more specifically as Godhead now owner of a human body, HE would be fully cognizant of the ludicrous elements involved in living human life.

Camels passing through needle’s eye? Planks in human eyes? Straining gnats and swallowing camels?

I’d say HE saw irony more than we do.

ICXC NIKA

 

[distracted]

Why wouldn’t HE? As a human being, more specifically as Godhead now owner of a human body, HE would be fully cognizant of the ludicrous elements involved in living human life.

Camels passing through needle’s eye? Planks in human eyes? Straining gnats and swallowing camels?

I’d say HE saw irony more than we do.

ICXC NIKA

yes but those aren’t ironies… .they are analogies…

 

[milkbar]

as a former Baptist…

wht 1st changed your mind about the Church?

Really, I had few misconceptions. Whereas many people are misinformed about the Church, I was simply uninformed. I didn’t know anything. I was a nearly blank slate. As I learned a few things from friends online, I realized (and sometimes even admitted! hah!) that what little I did know was wrong. Then I started seeing more and more about the Church, asked somebody for a book recommendation aimed at Protestants, read Rome Sweet Home last summer, found nothing I disagreed with in that book or in my research, and signed up for RCIA that August. Now here I am.

 

[distracted]

Really, I had few misconceptions. Whereas many people are misinformed about the Church, I was simply uninformed. I didn’t know anything. I was a nearly blank slate. As I learned a few things from friends online, I realized (and sometimes even admitted! hah!) that what little I did know was wrong. Then I started seeing more and more about the Church, asked somebody for a book recommendation aimed at Protestants, read Rome Sweet Home last summer, found nothing I disagreed with in that book or in my research, and signed up for RCIA that August. Now here I am.

Welcome…

i have a hard time u/standing peple who do know about the Church and yet continuously reject it… to me that’s tantamount to whole-heartedly rejecting Christ… What do you think?

shouldn’t be surprising since Jesus said that not many find that “narrow” road that leads to heaven… guess its too narrow for some…

 

[milkbar]

If you’re a cradle Catholic it might be difficult to imagine why anyone would reject the Church’s teachings, but when someone has had a lifetime of knowing something else is fact, and when someone is in a family full of Protestants, accepting the Truth is not easy. Even the few things I did “know” about the Church–that Catholics “worship Mary,” they don’t believe in “once saved, always saved,” but they DO believe in Transubstantiation (hocus pocus and delirium!)–were enough to make me write off everything else without thinking, without even bothering to look into anything else or let the Church speak for Herself. It took subtle persistence on God’s part for me to realize what it meant that I knew so little, and telling my family was not a walk in the park. I risked my relationship with the family member I love and need more than anyone else except my husband and children. There’s more at work than simple rejection. I’m hopeful that, especially in the case of that family member, my Protestant family who cannot accept the Church will still be with me in heaven. Surely God would not condemn someone who couldn’t accept that 2+2=4 if they weren’t educated properly enough to know the difference between 4 and 5 and the importance thereof, and therefore even when presented with the information they can’t or won’t wrap their heads around it because they’ve known 2+2=5 for their entire lives… if they truly want to please God, misguided though they might be, even in the face of the Truth… you can see why this Mass reading we were discussing was distressing to me.

 

[distracted]

If you’re a cradle Catholic it might be difficult to imagine why anyone would reject the Church’s teachings, but when someone has had a lifetime of knowing something else is fact, and when someone is in a family full of Protestants, accepting the Truth is not easy. Even the few things I did “know” about the Church–that Catholics “worship Mary,” they don’t believe in “once saved, always saved,” but they DO believe in Transubstantiation (hocus pocus and delirium!)–were enough to make me write off everything else without thinking, without even bothering to look into anything else or let the Church speak for Herself. It took subtle persistence on God’s part for me to realize what it meant that I knew so little, and telling my family was not a walk in the park. I risked my relationship with the family member I love and need more than anyone else except my husband and children. There’s more at work than simple rejection. I’m hopeful that, especially in the case of that family member, my Protestant family who cannot accept the Church will still be with me in heaven. Surely God would not condemn someone who couldn’t accept that 2+2=4 if they weren’t educated properly enough to know the difference between 4 and 5 and the importance thereof, and therefore even when presented with the information they can’t or won’t wrap their heads around it because they’ve known 2+2=5 for their entire lives… if they truly want to please God, misguided though they might be, even in the face of the Truth… you can see why this Mass reading we were discussing was distressing to me.

very interesting…

I’ve had these same thoughts… and this kind of thing is why we should never say that some particular person is definitely going to Hell… or conversely we should not say that someone is going to Heaven either… both are WRONG… Billy Graham, when one of his assoicates died, said he was in Heaven… I always wondered whether B Graham had studied much on the Catholic religion… seems very odd that he would not have… although i realize he … well, at least USED to be very busy… I find it hard to believe someone as old as he is and who has served Jesus so long… would not be interested in w hat many claim is the FIRST (only) Church… (and we Catholics KNOW it to be)… but anyhow…

God judges people by what they know … and how they have taken the initiative (or not) to know more about Jesus… If a person just dismisses the Catholic Church without investigation… well, that is a sin… If a person even suspects that the Catholic religon may be the right one and rejects it… s/he is … objectively speaking, rejecting Christ… altho a lot of times they will deny that… but people deny a lot of things to humans that thye cannot deny to God… which is another reason we can’t judge a person… People act a lot in front of humans… only God knows where they are really “at”…

anyway… I think one of the most powerful ways to get these people to change their minds is simply prayer, esp the rosary… the MASS is the highest form of prayer… I think you can have Masses said for those who are… not only ill physically but ill spirituallly… (an orthodox priest would know for sure…)