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Shin
Guest
I think TIA is generally supportive of a more formal and less casual society as one of necessary attributes for making people everywhere generally more moral.
So, slang, language that is less reverent than other language, good manners, greeting people properly, standing and sitting properly, etc. etc… all that get focused on.
For the general casual American spirit not brought up with the manners for any formal occasion whatsoever it’s a bit of a stretch, but good medicine.
After all, if you think about it, consciously speaking about ‘children’ instead of ‘kids’ does make one think more respectfully in one’s mind, which is a positive interior reform.
At least in my case, when I think of the term ‘kids’ I generally do think of rambunctious little ones more than holy and respectful little ones.
Goats instead of sheep!
So, slang, language that is less reverent than other language, good manners, greeting people properly, standing and sitting properly, etc. etc… all that get focused on.
For the general casual American spirit not brought up with the manners for any formal occasion whatsoever it’s a bit of a stretch, but good medicine.
After all, if you think about it, consciously speaking about ‘children’ instead of ‘kids’ does make one think more respectfully in one’s mind, which is a positive interior reform.
At least in my case, when I think of the term ‘kids’ I generally do think of rambunctious little ones more than holy and respectful little ones.
Goats instead of sheep!
L
Lainey63
Guest
“Get away from me kid ya bother me” WC Fields said that in most of his movies from the 30s & 40s (I’m guessing). So much for the accuracy of the 60s & 70s info she wrote about. This was just someone’s opinion but kid was used long before the 60s & 70s even in the movies. I don’t think it has anything to do with the dignity of the human being…it’s just slang. That’s my :twocents::twocents: but I’m sure there are many who agree with her.
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Mattapoisett64
Guest
In reading linked articles to the one cited, I got as far as napkin folding in the Catholic home, 5-year-olds standing when an adult enters the room, and calling your father “Sir,” before I came to realize that the author has w-a-y too much time on his hands. Your mileage may vary.
I remember “kids” being used long before the 60’s also. I wonder if the implication was to blame that word on Vatican II, so much else is.
I remember “kids” being used long before the 60’s also. I wonder if the implication was to blame that word on Vatican II, so much else is.
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malphono
Guest
The short answer is: not much. It sounds like a schoolroom lecture from the 1950s. Been there. Heard them.
I’m fairly well versed in proper American English usage and I am fully aware that the word “kid” in reference to a child has been considered a slang term. There are similar “alternate meanings” for (or mis-uses of) words in most languages.
In saying that I do not mean to imply that “kid” has become proper, but perhaps it can be said that the word has become part of the vernacular idiom.
As an aside, the example can perhaps also be said to make an argument for the use of liturgical languages, where the meaning of words does not change.
Just my :twocents:
I’m fairly well versed in proper American English usage and I am fully aware that the word “kid” in reference to a child has been considered a slang term. There are similar “alternate meanings” for (or mis-uses of) words in most languages.
In saying that I do not mean to imply that “kid” has become proper, but perhaps it can be said that the word has become part of the vernacular idiom.
As an aside, the example can perhaps also be said to make an argument for the use of liturgical languages, where the meaning of words does not change.
Just my :twocents:
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Ailina
Guest
I like the picture of the kids…oops, I mean children, jumping on the couch. Is he trying to link couch jumping (a great and fun rumpus room pastime from my childhood back in the 1960s) with goats jumping? Maybe we should be banning couch jumping. Or jumping in general, since kids (not children) do it. Because, in the good old days, children were seen (sitting quietly) and not heard, right? In conclusion, that is what brought around the downfall of society: jumping children who reminded adults of kids (the goats)!
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nordskoven
Guest
Marian Horvat is a nice girl who sucks a lot of money from disgruntled rad trads, and TIA/Tradition in Action is a splinter group of the banned-in-Brazil TFP/Tradition, Family & Property group that sidetracks priestly vocations for the “higher” vocation of the warrior-monk. Horvat is a Sede Vacantist who signed “We Resist You To The Face.” Horvat is herself no lady and I was told she left her family’s snarling dogs out to see how an expected visitor would react.
Horvat co-authored the TFP book The Nobility and the Traditional Elites that stated the “traditional elites” of America are exemplified by the southern slaveholder in general and General Robert E. Lee is the paragon of genetic perfection. Horvat is what is called “nasty nice.” She’d cut your guts out and feed them to you for sausage. Horvat participated in a roundtable discussion on EWTN moderated by Dr. Alice Von Hildebrand and EWTN pulled it after noticing Horvat pimping Tradition, Family & Property founder Plinio Oliveira de Correa. Plinio promised to rise from the dead after his death several years ago…Still waiting. This rascal put one over on Von Hildebrand. May the Lord enlighten the eyes of our hearts and remind us we are His elect, not the self-appointed elite.
Horvat co-authored the TFP book The Nobility and the Traditional Elites that stated the “traditional elites” of America are exemplified by the southern slaveholder in general and General Robert E. Lee is the paragon of genetic perfection. Horvat is what is called “nasty nice.” She’d cut your guts out and feed them to you for sausage. Horvat participated in a roundtable discussion on EWTN moderated by Dr. Alice Von Hildebrand and EWTN pulled it after noticing Horvat pimping Tradition, Family & Property founder Plinio Oliveira de Correa. Plinio promised to rise from the dead after his death several years ago…Still waiting. This rascal put one over on Von Hildebrand. May the Lord enlighten the eyes of our hearts and remind us we are His elect, not the self-appointed elite.
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nordskoven
Guest
Plinio Correa de Oliveira is the founder of TFP and is cited on Horvat’s TIA/Tradition Action site. I reversed his last names…which reminded me that his minions referred to him in his lifetime and do today as “Professor Plinio.” Where is the Catholic dignity in this? Say his whole Brazilian name, for crying out loud, that’s your modus operandi. Where is the Catholic dignity in reverencing his hat as TFP members do? Where is the Catholic dignity in praying a litany to Professor Plinio’s mom that makes of Plinio a god? Don’t let these jokers get your address or they’ll hound you until they take your tradition, family and property. No money, sharp objects or matches for these insane subversives.
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Shin
Guest
Interesting, I did not know these things about that site, though it has its problems it is also very unique in content, something hard to find – would you care to point me towards some sources for more backed up information?
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Cluny
Guest
I didn’t know that the main person for TIA was a sedevacantist; it doesn’t surprise me. This site refers to “Pope Wojtylla” and “Pope Ratzinger”.
They even accused Pope Benedict for being a modernist because he wore sunglasses. The HORROR of it all!
And as I’ve already said, they are never so happy as when they are rejoicing in the iniquities of others–sometimes real, mostly perceived.
They even accused Pope Benedict for being a modernist because he wore sunglasses. The HORROR of it all!
And as I’ve already said, they are never so happy as when they are rejoicing in the iniquities of others–sometimes real, mostly perceived.
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NeedImprovement
Guest
Thanks for these smiles (and others) - they’re a welcome addition when reading people’s viewpoints
.My dear mother was quite a stickler on correct grammatical use of the english language; especially where it concerned my siblings and myself.
However, to concede a point, there probably are instances where the use of kids, rather than children would appear at least awkward if not inappropriate. The example I have in mind goes much further back than Vatican II though. I find myself unable to do the mental gymnastics required to see the substitution of “kids” for “children” in the following passage as a *good fit *:
[John 1:12-13 ; NAB]
But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God.
(*It could just be me
)
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EasterJoy
Guest
Oh, good grief. If I do not miss my guess, this is the work of a tireless busybody.
Back when I learned the virtues, “formal” was not one of them. Exactly how far back in English usage would be virtuous enough for this writer? Edwardian? Victorian? Elizabethan, perhaps? Shall we have a vote on resurrecting “thy” and “thou”? Beautiful languages like French, Spanish, and German have both formal and informal pronouns, after all. Is it not a shame that those of English are all but lost?
I look forward to the sequels to this piece, in which we will be advised that well-raised children should be taught from the cradle to address their parents as “Mother” and “Father” instead of the more vulgar and puerile “Mom” and “Dad”, not to mention that all good Catholics should eschew the more recent (and therefore more vulgar and less correct) terms TV, phone, PC, RN, SUV…well, I think you get the idea. I think that if anyone ever teaches this woman to text-message, she’ll have a nervous breakdown.
And by the way, the mistaken impression that the first meaning listed is necessarily the “main” meaning is a common error. It is not uncommon for dictionaries to list entries from oldest to most recent, which are easier facts to establish, instead of attempting to decide in the case of each word which among its many usages is the most common. If you really want to be snotty and superior about how other people use the language, it is handy to know these useless little facts.
I pray for the day when people learn when to use “me”, “I”, and “myself” correctly. I am not going to waste time on “kid.” Perhaps I am just not tireless enough.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Of course there are times for formal language and times for informal language…but does that mean we all have to use court-speak all the time?I find myself unable to do the mental gymnastics required to see the substitution of “kids” for “children” in the following passage as a *good fit *:
[John 1:12-13 ; NAB]
But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God.
(*It could just be me
Can you use or hear the word “Mom” without concern about how the Mother of Our Lord might feel about how that term diminishes the dignity of mothers? Or worse: “Mama”? That one is practically goat-speak! When you hear it used, do you have any fear that we will be soon referring to Our Lady as the Mama of God? I kind of doubt it.
How about “Jesus bawled”? Does the fact that “wept” is poetic and “bawled” is not mean that “bawled” isn’t sometimes a useful word? Or is it just too vulgar? Must we say “visceral feeling” instead of “gut feeling”, because the former is so much more elegant and Latin and educated? The word “children” is in no danger of being lost. “Kid” is not the equivalent of referring to one’s wife as “the old lady”.
The language does not need busybodies like this to suck its richness out with a ridiculous crusade to ban any word referring to a human, when the word arguably has a more formal counterpart.
The truth is, it is bad enough that all the “vulgar” words in Scripture are translated as something refined and emasculated, instead of using words that more truly convey the sense of the actual words chosen. That is the kind of age we live in. We don’t need to do that to every word we let come out of our mouths, too.
L
Like
Guest
Sources, please, concerning Plinio Correa de Oliveira.
as for TFP, Catholic Culture rates them as FIDELITY Excellent.
catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=1999&repos=2&subrepos=0&searchid=510792
I have been a member of America Needs Fatima (part of TFP) for the last 4 or 5 years & have never read or seen any of the problems you sited.
Please see their site now for their current campaign at this time, The 2009 Rosary Rally.
americaneedsfatima.org/
Aloha Shin,
TIA (Tradition in Action) is listed as dangerous by Catholic Culture.
catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=3026&repos=2&subrepos=0&searchid=510816
And see above link in regards to TFP.
Hope this helps.
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Spiritu
Guest
I got about one paragraph in before I fell about laughing, and then I got to this:
*Not to mention the immoral women’s fashions that give even teenage girls the appearance of women of the street, not children of God. *
My instinctive reaction was to think, “Oh, you mean hookers?”
Anyone care to guess what colour she’d turn?
And this picture reminds me of a joke:
A priest is walking down the street when he sees a little girl dressed all in pink. She’s standing at the door of one of the houses, leaping up to try and catch the door-knocker, but she’s too tiny to reach it. He walks up to her with a friendly smile, and raps the knocker for her. The little girl looks up at him, grinning widely, and says,
“Thank you, Father. Now run like hell!”
It takes an awful lot to make me look subversive - this article succeeds.
*Not to mention the immoral women’s fashions that give even teenage girls the appearance of women of the street, not children of God. *
My instinctive reaction was to think, “Oh, you mean hookers?”
Anyone care to guess what colour she’d turn?
And this picture reminds me of a joke:
A priest is walking down the street when he sees a little girl dressed all in pink. She’s standing at the door of one of the houses, leaping up to try and catch the door-knocker, but she’s too tiny to reach it. He walks up to her with a friendly smile, and raps the knocker for her. The little girl looks up at him, grinning widely, and says,
“Thank you, Father. Now run like hell!”
It takes an awful lot to make me look subversive - this article succeeds.
C
Cluny
Guest
A priest is walking down the street when he sees a little girl dressed all in pink. She’s standing at the door of one of the houses, leaping up to try and catch the door-knocker, but she’s too tiny to reach it. He walks up to her with a friendly smile, and raps the knocker for her. The little girl looks up at him, grinning widely, and says,
“Thank you, Father. Now run like hell!”
ROTFLMAOPIMP
“Thank you, Father. Now run like hell!”
ROTFLMAOPIMP
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Red_Meg
Guest
Another helpful tip from the website-- Don’t take off your shoes in public. (I’m surprised by the choice of words-- surely contractions like don’t are more casual and hence less correct than writing out the verb phrase in full.)
Ooooookay…
Margaret
(emphasis added.)
Ooooookay…
Margaret
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EasterJoy
Guest
Exactly! I wish I had the good sense to have just laughed her off, too!If she thinks she is going to pass off such prissiness as some kind of “Traditional” virtue, I don’t think she’ll get far with the Catholics. I think she must have us confused with the old-school WASPs.
I should not be too hard on her. She only wants to save civilization, and Heaven knows it could use some help from mortals. Even so, this is over the top. Poor thing…I hope she doesn’t wind up on medication. (Ooops, forgot! She will have a supply of smelling salts on her at all times, wrapped up in her ladylike monogrammed silk handkerchiefs, of course…
)Oh, now that was snarky, too. I’d better leave her alone, now. She means well, I’m sure.
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Layman
Guest
Reminds me of a cartoon I saw, once.
A guy is sitting in front of his PC, staring intently at the screen and says to someone else in the room with him: “Sorry, I can’t talk now, someone on the internet is wrong!”.
A guy is sitting in front of his PC, staring intently at the screen and says to someone else in the room with him: “Sorry, I can’t talk now, someone on the internet is wrong!”.
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Cluny
Guest
10 points, Layman!
Oh, the horror!
As a matter of fact, it is the custom at the Chapel of the Burning Bush at St. Catherine’s Monastery on Mt. Sinai for all to remove their shoes.
Oh, the horror!
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