Tim Tebow's dad wants to convert Catholics in the Philippines?

[4Squarebaby]

some believe they are not Christian. Others. Evangelic, Mormon, JW, INC, SDA…believe that they will bring them to the fullness of truth to borrow some terminology.

 

[Filii_Dei]

For the same reason the Catholic Church feels it necessary to convert Evangelical and and Protestant Christians, even though we/they are also devout Christians.

Prove it. The Catholic Church has made quantum leaps in reaching out to the Protestants as separated brethren in Christ. Theological and ecclesiastical issues notwithstanding, the Catholic Church has recognises that Protestants worship the same Christ, and does not actively seek to convert Protestants. In fact, the Church has long maintained an open-door policy, where any of our separated brethren can re-enter the Church at any time they feel ready and welcome, without any solicitation from the Church.

Why does the Catholic Church attempt to convert Russians who are affiliated with the Orthodox Church?

Incorrect tense. That was in the past. Since then, (read the previous pages) the Church has ceased such activities, recognising the insult they cause to our Orthodox brothers. Will Bob Tebow do the same to Catholics too? I am doubtful.

Clearly because even though they are fellow Christians, the Catholic Church would prefer them to be a part of their Church.

Much like Evangelicals wish that other Christians join their denomination.

You’re missing the point of my argument. As much as we all wish for people to join ‘our’ side, does it justify insinuating the others to be ‘non-Christian’? Please re-read my argument that you are responding to. You’re completely missing the point of it. I was not criticizing Protestants as a whole, and did not refer to them at all. Instead, my argument was directed at Bob Tebow’s suggestion that Catholics have not heard the Gospel, which I’m sure you can agree is simply false and facetious.

It’s kind of annoying to see Catholics lament the fact that Evangelicals prosletyze them but then bash non-Catholics on the head with the line of “we are the true Church you are false”.

It’s kind of annoying you’re putting words in my mouth and then using that to accuse me of hypocrisy. Read all my posts again. I have never said that the Catholic Church was the true Church and that non-Catholics are false. Your insinuation that I made such an argument is deeply offensive and frankly ridiculous. That’s an issue for another thread, which I have no interest in getting into now.

Time and time again, my arguments have been consistently discussing the offense that certain over-enthusiastic preachers cause by attempting to ‘convert’ other Christians instead of seeking out true non-Christians to evangelise. I’ve never blamed this on Protestantism in this thread, and to begin with I have not even mentioned them. Therefore, how you surmised that I was bashing the Protestants/Evangelicals is truly beyond me. My criticism has always been about Bob Tebow and those who share his offensive views about Catholics. I do not consider these people to represent mainstream Protestantism (and I hope they don’t), but your accusation that I’m using them to judge all Protestants is disingenuous.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Yes I understand, the thing is LDS, JWs and the INC consider themselves Christian in a more perfect form then either you or me Although. I don’t think the INC goes door to door like the other two groups in their attempt to convert what they see as less then perfect Christians

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Prove it. The Catholic Church has made quantum leaps in reaching out to the Protestants as separated brethren in Christ. Theological and ecclesiastical issues notwithstanding, the Catholic Church has recognises that Protestants worship the same Christ, and does not actively seek to convert Protestants. In fact, the Church has long maintained an open-door policy, where any of our separated brethren can re-enter the Church at any time they feel ready and welcome, without any solicitation from the Church.

Prove it? How many countless threads have there been to call Protestants to convert Catholicism? Or how many countless threads have there been here insulting Protestant intelligence concerning how “vastly superior” the Roman Catholic Church is?

What about Catholic outreach programs like the “Catholics Come Home” - designed not only to attract lapsed Catholics but targeting also Protestant Christians? Don’t act like it doesn’t exist. Whatever the case may be with ecumenicism, there have been consistent attempts by the Catholic Church to expand its ranks by targeting non-Catholics.

Incorrect tense. That was in the past. Since then, (read the previous pages) the Church has ceased such activities, recognising the insult they cause to our Orthodox brothers. Will Bob Tebow do the same to Catholics too? I am doubtful.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/head_of_russian_orthodox_church_criticizes_vatican_for_proselytizing/
interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=7942
How far in the past, exactly?

You’re missing the point of my argument. As much as we all wish for people to join ‘our’ side, does it justify insinuating the others to be ‘non-Christian’? Please re-read my argument that you are responding to. You’re completely missing the point of it. I was not criticizing Protestants as a whole, and did not refer to them at all. Instead, my argument was directed at Bob Tebow’s suggestion that Catholics have not heard the Gospel, which I’m sure you can agree is simply false and facetious.

Catholics believe, essentially, the same thing as Tim Tebow’s father, only that they say it less explicitly (most of the time). Catholic doctrine states that salvation is truly found only within the Catholic Church, and that Christians outside of Communion with Rome are in huge doubt, even though they share many elements of the faith. Hence extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Yes, there are other circumstances, but essentially, this phrase means that those outside the Roman Catholic Church are in severe spiritual danger.

 

[ConstantineTG]

To profess the faith without being catechized and baptized would not equate to being called a Christian. In reciting the creed to say you believe in what you have experienced and been taught ie “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins” means you have been catechized and believe that baptism that you have experienced is regenerative.

Doesn’t the word “profess” say it all? You’re just laying with semantics here.

 

[andrewstx]

I know you believe that, you asked what I believe

And I assume you beleive that Catholics can become Christians only if they accept the Evangelical “getting saved” doctrine, whether they are baptised or no. Becuase baptism had nothing to do with becomeing Christians.

As my 4square cousin says unless you “get saved” and "accept Jesus as your own “personal Saviour” baptism only get’s you wet.

So you really believe that Catholics aren’t Christian unless they become Protestant.

It took a lot of posts to get that out of you.

 

[4Squarebaby]

And I assume you beleive that Catholics can become Christians only if they accept the Evangelical “getting saved” doctrine, whether they are baptised or no. Becuase baptism had nothing to do with becomeing Christians.

As my 4square cousin says unless you “get saved” and "accept Jesus as your own “personal Saviour” baptism only get’s you wet.

So you really believe that Catholics aren’t Christian unless they become Protestant.

It took a lot of posts to get that out of you.

Then you misinterpreted, they don’t become Christian until they truly believe there is a Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I don’t believe they are a Christian because their parent had a priest baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Most Catholics do come to that belief. Many don’t and are only culturally Catholic but not Christian like many are culturally Jews but but are atheist.

 

[andrewstx]

Then you misinterpreted, they don’t become Christian until they truly believe there is a Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I don’t believe they are a Christian because their parent had a priest baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Most Catholics do come to that belief. Many don’t and are only culturally Catholic but not Christian like many are culturally Jews but but are atheist.

Then we do agree substantially, WHEW!

 

[ltwin]

Then you misinterpreted, they don’t become Christian until they truly believe there is a Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I don’t believe they are a Christian because their parent had a priest baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Most Catholics do come to that belief. Many don’t and are only culturally Catholic but not Christian like many are culturally Jews but but are atheist.

Yes, and I would add that many people raised evangelical Protestants are only culturally evangelical Protestant.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

So long.

 

[JustaServant]

Yes, and I would add that many people raised evangelical Protestants are only culturally evangelical Protestant.

YES!! YES!! Someone who gets it!! :clapping:
Evangelicals can be just as cultural or nominal as Catholics. Having a “born again” experience, believing in the Bible, waving your hands in the air during emotional music does not mean they are somehow superior or are more “complete” than Catholics.

 

[KathleenGee]

A lay person can baptize a person in case of an emergency…and our Church is based on the consecrated priesthood.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Yes, and I would add that many people raised evangelical Protestants are only culturally evangelical Protestant.

The difference beig that the elders of an Evangelic Church would not call the cultural Holy Roller a Christian even if he was baptised and attends services religiously. Being called Christian is reserved to those who truly believe and are willing to say they truly believe. It is why the call goes out near the end of many if not most services even if no stranger is among the congregation

 

[KathleenGee]

Our faith only is perfect when we as Catholics recite together the ancient Apostles Creed at daily Mass, and then the Nicene Creed at Sunday Mass – Resurrection Sunday…the greatest feast in the Church that supercedes Easter and Christmas.

The foundation of Catholicism is that we base our faith on Christ, His life and teachings, His Resurrected life and ascension in heaven with the Heavenly Father.

The Creed defines faith as given us by the Apostles. The Creed was in use by 100 AD.

Then in time when Christianity was given freedom to publicly worship under Emperor Constantine, a pagan up to his death when he was then baptized, there came about questions about the divinity of Christ and His humanity. That was settled at the Council of Nicea through St Athanasius who encouraged members of the Church to be educated.

So we as Church can express the only perfect act in our sinful humanity, when together and publicly, we profess our faith in Christ. But we are all on different levels of faith; we cannot judge others around us…to judge by appearances is not good.

Those who persevere to the end in Christ are saved.

So we do not focus so much on words or professions like ‘I am saved’…Instead we profess our faith in the Lord, His life, His church He established and the forgiveness of sins. We are of the Oral Tradition, and focus more on the Word and then doing.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Creed is part of the profession of faith. We did not read in Acts or the Letters or Revelations the Apostles Creed.

But the Creed is a good example of what we call Tradition – that given us by the Apostles…and since it goes back to 100 AD, I tend to settle in with my aging process that which has been around for about 2,000 years.

The elements, parts of the Mass, the spirit and tone is the same as that in 100 AD as well.
Publicly, the Mass as a Church, we gathering…are more reflecting and adoring and listening and discerning with the Holy Spirit when we hear the Word or receive the Eucharist.

 

[CopticChristian]

**Prove it? How many countless threads have there been to call Protestants to convert Catholicism? Or how many countless threads have there been here insulting Protestant intelligence concerning how “vastly superior” the Roman Catholic Church is? **
What about Catholic outreach programs like the “Catholics Come Home” - designed not only to attract lapsed Catholics but targeting also Protestant Christians? Don’t act like it doesn’t exist. Whatever the case may be with ecumenicism, there have been consistent attempts by the Catholic Church to expand its ranks by targeting non-Catholics.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/head_of_russian_orthodox_church_criticizes_vatican_for_proselytizing/
interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=7942
How far in the past, exactly?

Catholics believe, essentially, the same thing as Tim Tebow’s father, only that they say it less explicitly (most of the time). Catholic doctrine states that salvation is truly found only within the Catholic Church, and that Christians outside of Communion with Rome are in huge doubt, even though they share many elements of the faith. Hence extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Yes, there are other circumstances, but essentially, this phrase means that those outside the Roman Catholic Church are in severe spiritual danger.

I understand your sentiment. I believe that we are talking about different products…

The coming home series is not about knocking on doors and spreading literature it is there and it is the prodigal son in action…do you not believe in the prodigal son…he was welcomed home…

I am not sure whose intelligence is being questioned. You and I have seen the countless times that the book by Graham pointing to the fact, not fantasy, that the Bible came from the Catholic Church…how many times does the intelligence get insulted with that one.

I don’t see the problem that you point out with Anglicans…Anglicans historically have a history of departure from the OHCAC…no bones there. The Lutherans owe their existence to a Catholic Monk…no debating that there was a OHCAC to leave and if there was something else to join and restore then Lutherans would not exist…the issue comes from some forms of Baptists…Church of Christ that forgot about the Campbellites and their Protestant roots…and those that profess to be Christian and are distant from denominational thought believing that they bring something new to the table…

Well OK, the Bible is the Word of God…based on what?
Well OK, Jesus died for our sins…now what?
Well OK. Heaven is a reward and unmerited gift but just because you profess a prayer or dedicate your life leaves that the probability of that reward open to discussion.

We are not talking about the same Product. Jesus has been commercialized and marketed by Protestants and you see Coming Home…and an invitation to examine espoused beliefs like Sola etc…

If Jesus is a product He is being marketed primarily by an appeal to the emotions…I drove by several Protestant ecclesial communities today and on the flashing signs attached…you read…“Yes, God even forgives that”…or “Did you know you can know if you will go to Heaven”…the tragedy is what is being marketed is an appeal to something for me…at a base level rather than an introduction to the Creator and who and what we are and the role that Jesus plays in that role of Creation…

Too often the marketing starts with…“Have you lied?..then you are a liar”…etc…or “So many of your troubles can be helped by coming to Jesus”…“Did you know that the Bible is true”…

I hate to say it but although the notion is what difference does it make as long as they come to Christ…the Christ that is marketed by Protestants is not the same product and the tragedy is that Jesus is treated like something to be marketed and like a product by Protestants…in my opinion.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Prove it. The Catholic Church has made quantum leaps in reaching out to the Protestants as separated brethren in Christ. Theological and ecclesiastical issues notwithstanding, the Catholic Church has recognises that Protestants worship the same Christ, and does not actively seek to convert Protestants. In fact, the Church has long maintained an open-door policy, where any of our separated brethren can re-enter the Church at any time they feel ready and welcome, without any solicitation from the Church.

Incorrect tense. That was in the past. Since then, (read the previous pages) the Church has ceased such activities, recognising the insult they cause to our Orthodox brothers. Will Bob Tebow do the same to Catholics too? I am doubtful.

You’re missing the point of my argument. As much as we all wish for people to join ‘our’ side, does it justify insinuating the others to be ‘non-Christian’? Please re-read my argument that you are responding to. You’re completely missing the point of it. I was not criticizing Protestants as a whole, and did not refer to them at all. Instead, my argument was directed at Bob Tebow’s suggestion that Catholics have not heard the Gospel, which I’m sure you can agree is simply false and facetious.

It’s kind of annoying you’re putting words in my mouth and then using that to accuse me of hypocrisy. Read all my posts again. I have never said that the Catholic Church was the true Church and that non-Catholics are false. Your insinuation that I made such an argument is deeply offensive and frankly ridiculous. That’s an issue for another thread, which I have no interest in getting into now.

Time and time again, my arguments have been consistently discussing the offense that certain over-enthusiastic preachers cause by attempting to ‘convert’ other Christians instead of seeking out true non-Christians to evangelise. I’ve never blamed this on Protestantism in this thread, and to begin with I have not even mentioned them. Therefore, how you surmised that I was bashing the Protestants/Evangelicals is truly beyond me. My criticism has always been about Bob Tebow and those who share his offensive views about Catholics. I do not consider these people to represent mainstream Protestantism (and I hope they don’t), but your accusation that I’m using them to judge all Protestants is disingenuous.

Filii Dei—

I’ve read Unitatis Redintegratio on the Vatican website a number of times. It does say that Catholics should try to convert devout Protestants to Catholicism.

And, my goodness, this forum is full to the brim with attempts by Catholics to convert Protestants—sometimes quite aggressively.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Filii Dei—

I’ve read Unitatis Redintegratio on the Vatican website a number of times. It does say that Catholics should try to convert devout Protestants to Catholicism.

And, my goodness, this forum is full to the brim with attempts by Catholics to convert Protestants—sometimes quite aggressively.

I’m fine if we want to convert each other because we believe our Church (or congregation) is the true one. The problem with Tebow’s dad is that he believes a predominantly Catholic country has not predominantly heard of the Gospel.

 

[PRmerger]

I think the real issue is if you believe that non-Catholic missions are Holy Spirit inspired or if they are simply men who have something against Catholicism and doing missions for their own selfish purposes (whatever those could be).

I believe that non-Catholic missions are of the tradition of Apollos, fervent in their faith, but in need of being taken aside (as Priscilla and Aquila did) in order to receive the fullness of Truth.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Who the heck is this Tim Tebow dude!!!

Born Again Christian son of an evangelist who works in the Philippines who openly proclaims his faith more then most. He who won the Heisman Trophy as the best collegiate football player and lead his school to the national championship while wearing John 3:13 on his face causing the NCAA to change their rules so future players can not do the same. However the football experts declared that while he was a great college player there was no way he would be able to play in the NFL.

When he finally got a chance to play in the NFL he lead his team to a string of last minute victories causing some to wonder maybe God did lend a hand to a faithful servant to make a point to others, If national polls are correct maybe about 40% of the US think maybe God did step in, or at least his faith gave Tebow the confidence to step forward and take a leap where other quarterbacks back off fearing possible injury.

Even if the NFL scouts and experts are correct and another classic quarterback emerges to replace him next year he is in a very exclusive club of players who have lead a NFL team to a playoff game victory