Tim Tebow's dad wants to convert Catholics in the Philippines?

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ltwin said:
I don’t answer for Tim Tebow’s dad. And I hesitate to explain my own reasoning since I’ve already recieved an infraction on this thread for “contempt for Catholicism.” So, I’ll avoid question number 1 and answer question number 2 from my perspective (since I don’t read Tim Tebow’s dad’s mind ;)).

There are African protestants already coming to America to evangelize this heathen nation (in which still the majority of people identify as Christian). The missionary impulse within Protestantism goes both ways now as the colonial mindset has been shaken off, its not a simple Western to third world or Western Protestant to third world Catholic. It’s global south Protestant missionaries coming to the evangelical American South to reach the heathen white people. Africans already see the USA and Europe as mission fields.

The church in America (all churches) face serious problems with retaining members, and even those who are growing are growing by small percentages. Many of the members only attend on Christmas, Easter, and life cycle events. Why would foreign missionaries encourage newly converted Christians to return to the churches which are producing cultural Christians and anemic participation in the first place? Much easier to plant churches which carry some vitality and do not suffer from the complacency that overwhelms so much of American Christianity.
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Not all Africa is black. Can you provide a resource for this African desire to evangelize?

Planting churches is a Protestant phenomenon and assumes that all provide the same information and are on equal footing.
 
ltwin said:
Converted from a sinful life to a life that is transformed by the grace of Christ?

I am not posing a false dilemma at all. I am advocating that people be converted by all means possible by Catholics, by Protestants, and by any of segment of Christianity. I certainly don’t advocate sheep stealing. I believe you should bloom where** God planted you** until he tells you to go somewhere else. However, I don’t consider non-practicing Catholics to belong to the Catholic Church, just as I don’t consider non-practicing Pentecostals to belong to the Pentecostal Church. If Pentecostalism has failed to reach them, and they find Christ in the Catholic Church or the Baptist Church or the Methodist Church then I wish only the best for them, and I’m glad that they were able to understand and grasp hold of the faith, even if it wasn’t in the church of their upbringing. I’m just glad that they’ve found Jesus.
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I am always dumbfounded by this Protestant self appointed sherrif status to determine the status of others. I for the life of me cannot understand where this is learned. Who is anyone to say that anyone else is or is not transformed. In my Church no one talks about others transformation, others sinful lives, I just don’t get this Nazi mentality that I see when I read about judging others.

How do you know when God is moving you where and when you are exerting your own free will. You leave the door open to God planted you in a Mormon temple, or Kingdom Hall, or Church of What’s happening now…what measure do you have that God is doing all these things…?
 
ltwin said:
What I am saying is that many people who are “officially” in a church many times have already left that church in all but name.

I can provide them with nothing. The Lord works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform.

I am aware that neither I nor my opinions are Catholic (thanks for the reminder). I respect the opinion though, even though as a non-Catholic I do not share it. I fully respect the fact that Catholics are insulted and offended when it seems like (and may very well be in many cases) Protestants steal sheep. I get it. But conversations like this make painfully aware that whereas the Catholic Church has a birthright and territorial view of who its sheep are, Protestants operate under a whole different set of assumptions.
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What are those assumptions?
 
Sarabande said:
I think the Church does need to do something, especially with young Filipino Catholics in the States. They are being influenced by everything around them just as much as young non-Filipino Catholics. The Filipino culture is still there within our families and community, but it would be sad to see them become just culturally Filipino-Catholic rather than truly strong in their faith and spirituality.
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Only the States? What about the middle and upper classes in this country? My family’s been invaded by New Age fads while American culture seeps through my generation and younger via the Internet. Trust me, I may sound arrogant when I say I’m the closest thing to a Church-following Catholic in this household, but you have no idea how sad I see myself in that perspective.

Then again, the poor are not that far off either. Oh sure, give me images of the poor faithful crowding around the Black Nazarene in religious fervor.

One week later half of them would probably be drinking in dingy carinderias, crowding in sabong arenas, or playing tongits.

And to top it off, we got a nice little thing called the RH Bill stirring a massive storm and finally growing the seeds of anti-religious dissent in this nation. Meanwhile, our laughable excuse for politicians are once again making fools of themselves… as they’ve been doing since the last decade.

It’s bad enough we’ve had Sendong. Our national heroes are doubtlessly rolling in their graves now.
 
ltwin said:
I am aware that neither I nor my opinions are Catholic (thanks for the reminder). I respect the opinion though, even though as a non-Catholic I do not share it. I fully respect the fact that Catholics are insulted and offended when it seems like (and may very well be in many cases) Protestants steal sheep. I get it. But conversations like this make painfully aware that whereas the Catholic Church has a birthright and territorial view of who its sheep are, Protestants operate under a whole different set of assumptions.
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I too am anxious for you to answer that question Itwin.
What are those assumptions?
 
ConstantineTG said:
Sadly it is happening. I am very concerned. I’m Filipino, and most people I know are turning up Evangelical. Evangelicals are very aggressive in the Philippines, especially among college and young professional crowd by integrating the “good times” the kids want to be doing all the time with their preaching.
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I’m not. I don’t know if its only my area but from where I live, there is a strong presence of Catholicism. My school, neighbors, etc…In our batch of 120+, there are only two atheists and a handful of Protestants (5-ish). Catholic charities are active and my school has done a great job in teaching basic apologetics. We have film showings on our faith and faith related talks from different people (most notably Steve Ray and Christopher West). Opposition to the RH bill is strong as well (You could see anti-RH bill stickers on the back of cars).

I do know a lot of Catholics who are liberal, indifferent, etc (my dad’s family being the first example that comes to mind). Regardless, I’m confident with regards to Catholicism in our area. I live in one of the higher sub-divisions over here and from what I’ve seen, I can credit our devoutness to a good Catholic environment - education and community life. I can verify what previous posters have said though. The issue of Iglesia ni Christo and other Protestant sects garnering more converts has been tackled at our school…then again, these people were probably cultural Catholics to start with.

Don’t fret, I don’t see Catholicism fading away in this country in the near future. We are still a very Catholic country as far as I’m concerned. Whenever Christmas comes around, we head over to grandma’s over in Batangas and the processions are huge! 😛
 
AmateurPianist said:
Funny that I did a word search on the article and did not encounter the word “Catholic” once.
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AP, you do know that the Philippines is 80% Catholic, right? So to whom do you think Mr. Tebow is referring when he says that Filipinos have not heard the gospel? What religion are these “65 million [who] have never once heard the Gospel of Jesus”?

It’s like your saying, *“I am coming to spread the Gospel to those on the CAFs, to convert them to Christianity–as they have never heard the Gospel of Jesus” but then when it’s pointed out that you’re maintaining that *Catholics *haven’t heard the gospel you reply, disingenuously, “Well, I never said I was trying to convert Catholics. I just said that I was trying to convert CAFs members.” Umm…Catholics are about 80% of the posters here, so whom would you be trying to convert if not Catholics?

*(NB: the above, of course, is merely a hypotethical.)
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
Only the States? What about the middle and upper classes in this country? My family’s been invaded by New Age fads while American culture seeps through my generation and younger via the Internet. Trust me, I may sound arrogant when I say I’m the closest thing to a Church-following Catholic in this household, but you have no idea how sad I see myself in that perspective.
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It is very sad and I don’t think you sound arrogant about it at all. But as I have mentioned in my previous post, I could not speak for what is happening in the Philippines since I never had the opportunity or means to visit my mother’s homeland. I left it to those who live there, work or visit often to give a better view of what is happening in that country rather than someone like me who would only be going from what I hear or read.

I can only speak for what is happening here in the States and have seen how my cousins and other young Filipino Catholics have been influenced just as much as the young non-Filipino Catholics by the world around them. I mentioned that because it seems that some people believe Filipinos are in this spiritual bubble which can’t be broken and we know that is not the case.
 
AmateurPianist said:
Funny that I did a word search on the article and did not encounter the word “Catholic” once.
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Explain to me what you see as funny. I like things that are funny. Everyone knows that when things are funny we all like a good laugh.

What is the purpose of looking for the word “Catholic”. What is it you were looking to see and explain? What does this lack of finding mean to you?
 
AmateurPianist said:
Funny that I did a word search on the article and did not encounter the word “Catholic” once.
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I have yet to receive an email back from Tebow ministry. I called today and reached an answering machine. Tommorrow I will leave a number for them to call me back.
 
CopticChristian said:
I have yet to receive an email back from Tebow ministry. I called today and reached an answering machine. Tommorrow I will leave a number for them to call me back.
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The same happened to me, I wrote 6 days ago and have not heard a single word from them.
 
Over 65 million have never once heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ? I don’t think so.
 
Sarabande said:
It is very sad and I don’t think you sound arrogant about it at all. But as I have mentioned in my previous post, I could not speak for what is happening in the Philippines since I never had the opportunity or means to visit my mother’s homeland. I left it to those who live there, work or visit often to give a better view of what is happening in that country rather than someone like me who would only be going from what I hear or read.

I can only speak for what is happening here in the States and have seen how my cousins and other young Filipino Catholics have been influenced just as much as the young non-Filipino Catholics by the world around them. I mentioned that because it seems that some people believe Filipinos are in this spiritual bubble which can’t be broken and we know that is not the case.
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I read the article and waded through many posts. I am not sure why the objection to what Mr Tebow is doing. Would we not be doing the same? I see an opportunity for our Church to see where the faith is not being practiced with enough strength to overcome the approach of another religious tradition. Maybe this is a wake up call to not take such countries for granted. Mexico is also a Catholic country as are many South American countries but who’s in there preaching and teaching? Many evangelicals! A former co-worker and her family spent several years teaching in a very poor village through their evangelical church. She said many of the children they taught had been baptized Catholic but were not practicing as the Church was simply not involved in the village life. When Mr Tebow says they do not know Christ, it might just be a lack of contact with the Church rather than him claiming Catholics are not Christians.

We have a transitional deacon who is Filipino and during the Christmas break he returned to his home where in one morning he baptized 142 babies! Tell me that the same thought went into those baptisms as to those in our parish where there are prep classes and the baptism is an important element in the Mass. We should make sure there are opportunities for people to learn the faith rather than complaining that someone is horning in on “our” territory.

BTW I love Tim Tebow and have followed him since he was in college. He is an amazing young man and I wish him the very best in life.

Lisa A
 
The funny thing is that America was the Protestant “promised land.” Protestants eventually accepted birth control because they were afraid of Catholics taking over the country. Now that their teaching errors have come to fruition and America is going down the gutter, they are going out and trying to convert Catholic countries for what, to make them little Americas? It is all laughable. The claims that the majority of Philippinos have never heard the gospel is absurd - we are the ones who protected the gospels at the cost of human life to preserve them through the ages.

Also ironic because the huge segment of the “rapture believing” Protestants don’t even think the Gospels apply to the gentiles. Why doesn’t Mr. Tebow try and teach them the Gospel?

It is also laughable that they are not focusing on the areas of the Philippines that are Muslim! They could go be martyrs for their cause but instead they choose to focus on the harmless peace-loving Catholics. Wow, those brave missionaries!

The second generations of Hispanics and Philippinos in the US are leaving the Church in large numbers…it isn’t hard to figure out why. If they become Protestant they can use birth control, have a small family, and buy all the unnecessary things that our society tell us we need to have, and they can still feel good about it and tell people they are saved.

Not that cafeteria Catholics are any better, I’m sure they’ll be judged harder for having the full truth and rejecting it…
 
LisaA said:
We have a transitional deacon who is Filipino and during the Christmas break he returned to his home where in one morning he baptized 142 babies! Tell me that the same thought went into those baptisms as to those in our parish where there are prep classes and the baptism is an important element in the Mass. We should make sure there are opportunities for people to learn the faith rather than complaining that someone is horning in on “our” territory.

Lisa A
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One of them could have been my niece if this was a year ago, her family is what is locally called “born again” by the way. Part of the 5%. It was a cultural thing to go and then have the party for her
 
Tebow is slowly getting on my nerves. I’ve recently received a number of e-mails with attachments, comments, images, and requests to do something from various sources. Finally, I recognized that it was useless trying to ignore the requests so I posted my take on the subject on my blog. If you’d like to read my position on the Tebow inundation, please go to Tebow Mania…or Idolatry in Process.

Please let me know what you think.

Peace and joy!

Harold
 
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