Tim Tebow's dad wants to convert Catholics in the Philippines?

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AbideWithMe said:
Kathleen—

It truly is a pleasure to see your deep faith in God and love of His people.

I hear what you’re saying. But, speaking as someone who also understands, to a degree, where some of those Catholic bad-mouthers are coming from, I can sort of see what may be motivating them. Please note well, I don’t agree with them, it’s just that I question that they are deliberately misrepresenting Catholicism.

As a Protestant, I bless the day that I finally got a taste of grace as a teenager; the day I began to understand that it’s an act of sheer grace on God’s part to allow us to know Him, rather than something we must earn. Grace is precious to a Protestant (and of course to a Catholic) and I think some Protestant leaders are over-zealous in protecting the truth that we are all saved by grace.

To them, it genuinely looks as though Catholics are diluting the Good News, the Gospel, because they have a superficial understanding of Catholicism. They misunderstand Catholicism—and I’m going to dare to say that it’s partly because Catholicism is easily misunderstood. Especially, it’s easily misunderstood if one isn’t sympathetic to it while studying it, or has a mistrust of it. And we all, as Catholics and Protestants, do have several hundred years of reason to mistrust each other. A few hundred years ago, we may well have been killing each other, rather than having this conversation. The hurt runs deep and the scars are old and hard on both sides.

So, let’s be patient and let the Holy Spirit do His work of healing. I’m just asking you to not assume deliberate malicious intent where I think it may well be misunderstanding, misplaced zeal, ignorance, and old hurts causing some Protestant leaders to try to guard their flock from what they believe Catholicism teaches.
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Kathleen—

It truly is a pleasure to see your deep faith in God and love of His people.

I hear what you’re saying. But, speaking as someone who also understands, to a degree, where some of those Catholic/Christian bad-mouthers are coming from, I can sort of see what may be motivating them. Please note well, I don’t agree with them, it’s just that I question that they are deliberately misrepresenting Catholic/Christianity.

As a Protestant/Christian, I bless the day that I finally got a taste of grace as a teenager; the day I began to understand that it’s an act of sheer grace on God’s part to allow us to know Him, rather than something we must earn. Grace is precious to a Protestant/Christian (and of course to a Catholic/Christian) and I think some Protestant/Christian leaders are over-zealous in protecting the truth that we are all saved by grace.

To them, it genuinely looks as though Catholic/Christians are diluting the Good News, the Gospel, because they have a superficial understanding of Catholic/Christianity. They misunderstand Catholic/Christianity–and I’m going to dare to say that it’s partly because Catholic/Christianity is easily misunderstood. Especially, it’s easily misunderstood if one isn’t sympathetic to it while studying it, or has a mistrust of it. And we all, as Catholic/Christians and Protestant/Christians, do have several hundred years of reason to mistrust each other. A few hundred years ago, we may well have been killing each other, rather than having this conversation. The hurt runs deep and the scars are old and hard on both sides.

So, let’s be patient and let the Holy Spirit do His work of healing. I’m just asking you to not assume deliberate malicious intent where I think it may well be misunderstanding, misplaced zeal, ignorance, and old hurts causing some Protestant/Christian leaders to try to guard their flock from what they believe Catholic/Christianity teaches.
 
Abidewithme…

Interesting rewriting of my note…my issue is that there are those who have the ability to seek the truth about the Catholic Church through objective and historical sources.

I have found a few times that those who have told me what they thought of Catholics being ritual, etc., are then asked why not study and learn our faith’s history…and the response is that they don’t want to, it is too much…or those little magazines we see pop up every so once in awhile…the last one I saw was in the waiting room at a Catholic hospital…seen them before…not a magazine goes by without a picture or some scandal or some picture of someone praying the rosary in front of a statue…

I hope and pray all the time for Christian unity…there is a great site out…www.calledtocommunion.com…and it has very excellent articles…they take time to read but they really focus on the experience of communion we have as Catholics and hope and pray other Christians will be drawn to it.

We as Catholics know that baptism incorporates all Christians into the mystical body of Christ…and that Protestants are in a certain sense, baptized as Catholics as well…as baptism is a Catholic rite. So we consider Protestants as our separated brethren and pray for unity almost every Sunday…and that is it…no complaints or put downs…just praying for their return.
 
AbideWithMe said:
Hi Kathleen–[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

I think maybe you’ve said something more significant in your first sentence than you may realize: Catholicism can be easily misunderstood on the surface.

For nearly three years I’ve been part of another forum that’s mostly Catholic. I’ve been reading at CAF for one year. I didn’t grow up with anti-Catholic influence–I’ve always considered Catholic friends as Christians; my dad was subscribed to the partly-Catholic magazine “First Things” for much of the 90’s and I usually borrowed the issues from him; and I’ve read from Catholic authors during the whole time (30 years) I’ve been a Christian. And, though I say it myself;), I’m intelligent, usually able to grasp nuances without a problem, and a good reader. But, I will readily acknowledge that I still don’t understand Catholicism.

So, my reason for saying all that has to do with the second thing you wrote here. I strongly encourage you to be less judgmental, unless you have clear proof that you can share, than to say that prejudice against Catholics is “based on deliberate misrepresentation by certain Protestant leaders”. I think it more likely that they sincerely don’t understand the nuances of Catholicism, though they may think they understand it, rather than deliberate misrepresentation on their part. You know that Archbishop Sheen quote, I’m sure.

“Love believes the best…” We Protestants sure don’t get much love around here.
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Hi Kathleen–

I think maybe you’ve said something more significant in your first sentence than you may realize: Catholic/Christianity can be easily misunderstood on the surface.

For nearly three years I’ve been part of another forum that’s mostly Catholic/Christian. I’ve been reading at CAF for one year. I didn’t grow up with anti-Catholic/Christian influence–I’ve always considered Catholic/Christian friends as Christians; my dad was subscribed to the partly-Catholic/Christian magazine “First Things” for much of the 90’s and I usually borrowed the issues from him; and I’ve read from Catholic/Christian authors during the whole time (30 years) I’ve been a Protestant/Christian. And, though I say it myself , I’m intelligent, usually able to grasp nuances without a problem, and a good reader. But, I will readily acknowledge that I still don’t understand Catholic/Christianity.

So, my reason for saying all that has to do with the second thing you wrote here. I strongly encourage you to be less judgmental, unless you have clear proof that you can share, than to say that prejudice against Catholic/Christians is “based on deliberate misrepresentation by certain Protestant/Christian leaders”. I think it more likely that they sincerely don’t understand the nuances of Catholic/Christianity, though they may think they understand it, rather than deliberate misrepresentation on their part. You know that Archbishop Sheen quote, I’m sure.

“Love believes the best…” We Protestant/Christians sure don’t get much love around here.
 
KathleenGee said:
Abidewithme…

Interesting rewriting of my note…my issue is that there are those who have the ability to seek the truth about the Catholic Church through objective and historical sources.

I have found a few times that those who have told me what they thought of Catholics being ritual, etc., are then asked why not study and learn our faith’s history…and the response is that they don’t want to, it is too much…or those little magazines we see pop up every so once in awhile…the last one I saw was in the waiting room at a Catholic hospital…seen them before…not a magazine goes by without a picture or some scandal or some picture of someone praying the rosary in front of a statue…

I hope and pray all the time for Christian unity…there is a great site out…www.calledtocommunion.com…and it has very excellent articles…they take time to read but they really focus on the experience of communion we have as Catholics and hope and pray other Christians will be drawn to it.

We as Catholics know that baptism incorporates all Christians into the mystical body of Christ…and that Protestants are in a certain sense, baptized as Catholics as well…as baptism is a Catholic rite. So we consider Protestants as our separated brethren and pray for unity almost every Sunday…and that is it…no complaints or put downs…just praying for their return.
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Kathleen—

As a quick response before I have to leave for the day…

I think that if someone makes no effort to study and understand Catholicism first hand, from Catholic sources, then they have no business yapping about it. The people who have said to you that “it’s too much” or they don’t want to learn, need to then be aware of their ignorance and strive to reserve judgment and be quiet.

The reason I wrote of the time I’ve spent on trying to understand Catholicism, though, is to point out that there are at least 3 other groups of people who might misunderstand Catholicism.

I’ve got to go, but I hope to explain what I mean tonight.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
Pff… hahah. It reminds me of myself save its lechon instead of crab. XD

That’s still nothing compared to the idiots now making a media spectacle out political bungles.
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Glad you could see the humor in the video I posted. 🙂

Sometimes people get a little testy when we poke fun at our culture.

But I believe if we can’t laugh at ourselves then there’s something wrong with our psyche.
 
PRmerger said:
Glad you could see the humor in the video I posted. 🙂

Sometimes people get a little testy when we poke fun at our culture.

But I believe if we can’t laugh at ourselves then there’s something wrong with our psyche.
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HAHAHAHAH!! Boy you should see me parody this country’s popular media. Believe me, I am never without complaints. :rolleyes:😛

Heck I’m not shy of making fun of activists or even some of our national heroes (Rizal included). 😛

P.S.

On an interesting note, I find it amusing whenever I see missionaries like Tebow and realize that their uber-Americanized flavor of Christianity seems so seriously out of place in modern Pinoy culture.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
On an interesting note, I find it amusing whenever I see missionaries like Tebow and realize that their uber-Americanized flavor of Christianity seems so seriously out of place in modern Pinoy culture.
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Do you know how his message is received regarding the “brothers of the Lord” issue? (That is, the question that’s often presented to Catholics about why the Bible says Jesus had brothers but that the CC says Mary was a perpetual virgin.)

I often wonder how cultures, such as ours which refer to our cousins as Ate and Kuya, receive that. It would seem that Filipinos would easily dismiss this objection to Catholicism because of our understanding of extended family.
 
PRmerger said:
Do you know how his message is received regarding the “brothers of the Lord” issue? (That is, the question that’s often presented to Catholics about why the Bible says Jesus had brothers but that the CC says Mary was a perpetual virgin.)

I often wonder how cultures, such as ours which refer to our cousins as Ate and Kuya, receive that. It would seem that Filipinos would easily dismiss this objection to Catholicism because of our understanding of extended family.
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Good point and it’s not just unique to Filipinos. It can be quite common in other Asian cultures to use familial honorifics for non-family members.

Then again, that’s not even half of the culture clash I’m looking at when I see a Protestant missionary (even a Filipino one) street preaching in this country.

There he is, dressed up in a nice suit, preaching the ‘word of God’ through a megaphone (sometimes he’s even got signs and pickets).

All the while traysikads are passing by him, throngs of ukay-ukay vendors peddle their wares around him, BBQ stands unintentionally send smoke his way, and there I am giving him only so much as a raised brow before buying a stick or two and then going over to browse some bootleg DVDs out of boredom. :rolleyes::p:cool:
 
AbideWithMe said:
Hi Kathleen–[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

I think maybe you’ve said something more significant in your first sentence than you may realize: Catholicism can be easily misunderstood on the surface.

For nearly three years I’ve been part of another forum that’s mostly Catholic. I’ve been reading at CAF for one year. I didn’t grow up with anti-Catholic influence–I’ve always considered Catholic friends as Christians; my dad was subscribed to the partly-Catholic magazine “First Things” for much of the 90’s and I usually borrowed the issues from him; and I’ve read from Catholic authors during the whole time (30 years) I’ve been a Christian. And, though I say it myself;), I’m intelligent, usually able to grasp nuances without a problem, and a good reader. But, I will readily acknowledge that I still don’t understand Catholicism.

So, my reason for saying all that has to do with the second thing you wrote here. I strongly encourage you to be less judgmental, unless you have clear proof that you can share, than to say that prejudice against Catholics is “based on deliberate misrepresentation by certain Protestant leaders”. I think it more likely that they sincerely don’t understand the nuances of Catholicism, though they may think they understand it, rather than deliberate misrepresentation on their part. You know that Archbishop Sheen quote, I’m sure.

“Love believes the best…” We Protestants sure don’t get much love around here.
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Abide,

I would hope that you have some insights into the rewrites and only you know. In a nutshell to say you do not understand is admirable. To say one does not understand suggests a desire to understand. In order to understand anything there are many ways to satisfy that lack of understanding. I suggest that questions about whatever is lacking in understanding is paramount to satisfy that lack of understanding.

First, You accept and believe everything that I accept and believe with slight variation.
Second, What you and other Protestants deny about what I accept is what you don’t understand.

I did not understand “Evangelical Free Church”…so I investigated. I did searches and ultimately I made phone calls and talked to the people at churches in your community. I asked questions. I read and then asked for clarification and now I understand.
And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
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I understand that you have been reading Catholic/Christian literature. Be like the Eunuch and understand that to understand you need someone to guide you. That guide must be Catholic/Christian.🙂
 
Pinay (Filipin–a/fem.)…!! Long time no talky talky.

Lechon is so good…and my in-laws had me eat a roasted ear and…I complied…and it was good…

Lechon is a whole roast pig…like the unfortunate ones Americans know of that are lovingly brought down to their pit in Hawaii decked out in fruits and other garnishments…

My in-laws are secular Filipinos…a couple married by a judge in the Islands…and my paternal grandmother was a Methodist minister in the Philippines…yes. My husband was baptized Catholic by the Catholic relatives. My maternal aunt married a Protestant and she told me the women there take on the faith of their husband. Their family is a devout Protestant family.

My husband told me he was Catholic and wanted a Catholic wedding.

My former pastor…an Irishman from Alki…was overheard saying to a woman…‘Well, I will have a nice funeral for him.’…implying the husband didn’t go to church. There are those who go to church for Baptism, marriage and…then their funeral…
 
Abide…

Who I am addressing are the willful who refuse to open their mind and hearts to atleast the dignity of our faith in Christ…and go about maligning…

I was in a foreign mission…and met some women who told me of some anti-Catholic sect that came through from the USA…speaking against my missionary priests…they told me we worshipped statues…(they knew that was wrong, having no education)…I just shook my head no…and they said the priests had alot of money because drove jeeps…and told them that came from we lay people…and they later became Catholics…but the focus was their dignity that can only come from the Lord.

So what it gets to now…there are people who want to believe such things about Catholicism and are subsequently afraid of it, and there are those who hear such things…but don’t let it get to them…they stay open…
 
KathleenGee said:
Abide…

Who I am addressing are the willful who refuse to open their mind and hearts to atleast the dignity of our faith in Christ…and go about maligning…

I was in a foreign mission…and met some women who told me of some anti-Catholic sect that came through from the USA…speaking against my missionary priests…they told me we worshipped statues…(they knew that was wrong, having no education)…I just shook my head no…and they said the priests had alot of money because drove jeeps…and told them that came from we lay people…and they later became Catholics…but the focus was their dignity that can only come from the Lord.

So what it gets to now…there are people who want to believe such things about Catholicism and are subsequently afraid of it, and there are those who hear such things…but don’t let it get to them…they stay open…
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In light of this OP the Tebow family is presenting what sounds like Christianity, what looks like Christianity and as those that are part of what they profess are baptized Christian profess something that is a far cry from Christianity…and what in fact you are saying is that when people read Catholic they do not realize that Catholic is nothing more than a fullfillment…
1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
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3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
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God promised Abraham land, a name or Shem/Kingdom, and a world wide blessing…and this was accomplished the land, the Kingdom of David and the world wide blessing through Christ/Church… and The word catholic (derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”) comes from the Greek phrase … καθόλου (kath’holou), meaning “on the whole,”

So Christianity is the worldwide blessing that we call Catholic and that is the Catholic/Christian Church through which all nations will be blessed.
 
Coptic Christian,

Deeply appreciate your clarifying work here…yes, Catholicism is the fulfillment of faith in God…Roy Shoeman of ‘Salvation Came from the Jews’, author stated he now experiences himself as a Jew, fulfilled as a Roman Catholic, more so than before.

I also have to keep emphasizing that Roman Catholicism, through the Primacy of Peter, enables us to enter into that great fulfilling life of communion with the Holy Spirit. I note as well as our teachings of Scripture are centered and balanced, connect to the world around us, and help us to live out the Word of God in clarity and peace.

Either I am Catholic or I am nothing.
 
Just found this thread and have not read every post - it’s lengthy! - but maybe, just maybe, some of these “christians” who go over to the Phillipines to save them from Catholicism, are taught a thing a few by their Catholic, Phillipino brothers and sisthers.

I should hope that they are. Just a thought.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
Good point and it’s not just unique to Filipinos. It can be quite common in other Asian cultures to use familial honorifics for non-family members.
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So have you heard of many Filipinos who have been convinced that Mary was not a perpetual virgin because of the “brethren of the Lord” argument that’s been presented by Protestants?
 
PRmerger said:
So have you heard of many Filipinos who have been convinced that Mary was not a perpetual virgin because of the “brethren of the Lord” argument that’s been presented by Protestants?
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Hardly. Those that were usually didn’t even get the allegation from a Protestant source. Try The Da Vinci code phenomenon. :rolleyes:
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
No, you’re missing the point. I challenge you to find any cultural flaws in this country that cannot be attributed to Spain or any foreign influence. You’ll find little or none at all. (This is even assuming we have enough information on our pre-colonial heritage to begin with.)

The current systems we have today were in fact put in place during Spanish rule’s time. Again, it doesn’t matter if “Bobby did it too”. The fact remains that it was Catholic Spain, the nation was supposed to be a good witness to the faith instead, went on and did the opposite.
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Every country has cultural flaws. Do you think First World Nations today are “oh so perfect” cultures? Like I said, every nation was subverted one time or another by another nation/kingdom. That hasn’t stopped many nations to improve.

I think its you who are missing the point. Over 100 years later and its not obvious to us as a nation whats wrong, its not Spain’s fault anymore. The fact that you’re blaming the system and not doing anything about it but complain about it is the problem. The problem today is not what Spain did 100, 200, 400 years ago. The problem today is what we are doing today.
 
PRmerger said:
Do you know how his message is received regarding the “brothers of the Lord” issue? (That is, the question that’s often presented to Catholics about why the Bible says Jesus had brothers but that the CC says Mary was a perpetual virgin.)

I often wonder how cultures, such as ours which refer to our cousins as Ate and Kuya, receive that. It would seem that Filipinos would easily dismiss this objection to Catholicism because of our understanding of extended family.
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But old tradition places the brothers and sisters of Jesus as actual children of Joseph by his first (and at the time deceased) wife. While people have argued for and against the two theories, I’ll just go with the older tradition.
 
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