Time for a New Spiritual (not Religious) Order?

[grannymh]

I don’t know anything about Alaska, only that it’s cold and isolated. Indeed, many similar places on earth that don’t have a religion are peaceful people. Seems most religious people are the ones with the problems…

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“I am the Good Shepherd, and I know mine and mine know me”
John 10: 14

“Come to Me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest.”
Matthew 11: 28-30

“Like a shepherd He feeds His flock; in His arms He gathers the lambs,”
Isaiah 40: 11

In the real Catholic Church we are a member of the Mystical Body of Christ.
Here, we turn to Jesus our Good Shepherd. Here, in the Catholic Church, Jesus our Good Shepherd gives Himself to us in Holy Communion, the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

It is true that Jesus is truly present in the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

O Sacrament most holy.
O Sacrament Divine.
All praise and all thanksgiving be every moment Thine.

 

[Avila123]

The Rev. Dr. Matthew Fox is definitely in need of prayers and so are his followers who wish to change Catholicism. However, it seems to me, in the above article, post 1, he is following Genesis 1: 28 usccb.org/bible/genesis/1
28.
“God blessed them and God said to them: Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it.* Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that crawl on the earth.”

Regarding the provided quote and link in post 1, I am interested in how one picks out the theme of destroying Christianity. What is he saying? What is the foundation for a new religion?

I simply googled the author to find out more and ignored those that were very anti to see what I could find out, rather than going by one statement or quote. There seemed to be no purpose in reproducing a list of his beliefs which were not supported by evidence (especially from the Bible) as that would detract from the original post.

Sorry for the delay in getting back, it has been rather busy lately.

 

[grannymh]

I simply googled the author to find out more and ignored those that were very anti to see what I could find out, rather than going by one statement or quote. There seemed to be no purpose in reproducing a list of his beliefs which were not supported by evidence (especially from the Bible) as that would detract from the original post.

Sorry for the delay in getting back, it has been rather busy lately.

Apparently I am needed to clarify some possible confusion. My apology for that.

I was referring to Rev. Dr. Mathew Fox who is not the author of the thread’s meditation. Here is a link to his website. matthewfox.org/
This website now has a different format. I now suggest you Google Mathew Fox and you have to add the word priest. In the past, Wikipedia has had some good information about the life of Matthew Fox Priest.

It is easy to have some confusion because Father Rohr has followed some of the early teachings of Rev. Mathew Fox who has left the Catholic Religion.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

[simpleas;14761018]This popped up on my timeline on Facebook, the author makes some true and interesting points, but I’d like some views on it. It’s quite a long read, so here is the starter and if it interests you please continue and let me know your thoughts.
Thanks.

The new spiritual order the author speaks of is not divinely revealed. It introduces a NEW man made wind of doctrine that pleads for a humane unity under creation. It is secular in part that calls different cultural’s and understanding to be united in the author’s understanding of “spiritual” which is not a divine revelation.

The greatest divine spiritual revelation ever professed in human history, which pertains to a spiritual unity your author is reaching for, is revealed here; “Love Your Enemy” by Jesus Christ.

If your author can begin the path as our Catholic bishop’'s and priest’s to be can example of Loving your enemy. Your author begins the path of a perfected spiritual life.

If one can live a life of loving his/her enemy, what more spiritual order does one need to reach for?

Peace be with you

 

[simpleas]

The new spiritual order the author speaks of is not divinely revealed. It introduces a NEW man made wind of doctrine that pleads for a humane unity under creation. It is secular in part that calls different cultural’s and understanding to be united in the author’s understanding of “spiritual” which is not a divine revelation.

The greatest divine spiritual revelation ever professed in human history, which pertains to a spiritual unity your author is reaching for, is revealed here; “Love Your Enemy” by Jesus Christ.

If your author can begin the path as our Catholic bishop’'s and priest’s to be can example of Loving your enemy. Your author begins the path of a perfected spiritual life.

If one can live a life of loving his/her enemy, what more spiritual order does one need to reach for?

Peace be with you

I think the author was speaking about including loving ALL of creation not just the human creation.

Some people may believe loving their enemy is all they need to do (which isn’t the easiest thing for many humans) others believe this, but include the earth and animals, which are part of creation.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I think the author was speaking about including loving ALL of creation not just the human creation.

Some people may believe loving their enemy is all they need to do (which isn’t the easiest thing for many humans) others believe this, but include the earth and animals, which are part of creation.

Yes, that is the thought I followed when I presented "It introduces a NEW man made wind of doctrine that pleads for a humane unity under creation".

I believe St. Francis had a moral discipline towards “All of creation” besides loving his enemies. When he would consider aspects of nature and creation as brother’s and sisters.

There is nothing new under the sun.

 

[simpleas]

Yes, that is the thought I followed when I presented "It introduces a NEW man made wind of doctrine that pleads for a humane unity under creation".

I believe St. Francis had a moral discipline towards “All of creation” besides loving his enemies. When he would consider aspects of nature and creation as brother’s and sisters.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Yes, St Francis is a great role model and saint.

I didn’t read it the same as you, nor do I think humanity should be ‘under creation’ but rather a long side it, protecting it.

 

[grannymh]

Yes, St Francis is a great role model and saint.

I didn’t read it the same as you, nor do I think humanity should be ‘under creation’ but rather a long side it, protecting it.

I believe that is the modern interpretation of Genesis 1: 26. The word dominion includes humanity’s responsibility for protecting creation including the creatures.

 

[edwest2]

Each human being consists of two parts: the physical and the spiritual. A melting pot Order would need some kind of order and who will provide that? This sounds like watering everything down until it all looks the same. The Earth Mother is a pagan belief. Creation is simply what God made.

"Pope Benedict XVI goes on to say:

"We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]

So those who want to do whatever they want to do will suddenly stop?

“Well, I came upon a child of God
He was walking along the road
And I asked him, Tell me, where are you going
This he told me
Said, I’m going down to Yasgur’s Farm
Gonna join in a rock and roll band
Got to get back to the land and set my soul free
We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
Well, then can I roam beside you?
I have come to lose the smog,
And I feel myself a cog in somethin’ turning
And maybe it’s the time of year
Yes and maybe it’s the time of man
And I don’t know who I am
But life is for learning
We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
By the time we got to Woodstock
We were half a million strong
And everywhere was a song and a celebration
And I dreamed I saw the bomber death planes
Riding shotgun in the sky,
Turning into butterflies
Above our nation
We are stardust, we are golden
We are caught in the devils bargain
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden”

Songwriters: Joni Mitchell

Woodstock lyrics © Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC, Crazy Crow Music / Siquomb Music Publishing

From the album Déjà Vu by Crosby, Stills & Nash

Released: 1970

Ed

 

[simpleas]

I believe that is the modern interpretation of Genesis 1: 26. The word dominion includes humanity’s responsibility for protecting creation including the creatures.

The word dominion means control. People have interpreted what God may have meant by that through the years, even now. They also use it as an excuse to use animals and creation for their own benefits (myself included, though I am very aware of what I eat, use and wear, but am far from a vegan)

I can not imagine God ever being pleased with how we now use creation/animals, but many people do not see this as an important issue.

 

[simpleas]

Each human being consists of two parts: the physical and the spiritual. A melting pot Order would need some kind of order and who will provide that? This sounds like watering everything down until it all looks the same. The Earth Mother is a pagan belief. Creation is simply what God made.

"Pope Benedict XVI goes on to say:

"We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]

So those who want to do whatever they want to do will suddenly stop?

“Well, I came upon a child of God
He was walking along the road
And I asked him, Tell me, where are you going
This he told me
Said, I’m going down to Yasgur’s Farm
Gonna join in a rock and roll band
Got to get back to the land and set my soul free
We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
Well, then can I roam beside you?
I have come to lose the smog,
And I feel myself a cog in somethin’ turning
And maybe it’s the time of year
Yes and maybe it’s the time of man
And I don’t know who I am
But life is for learning
We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden
By the time we got to Woodstock
We were half a million strong
And everywhere was a song and a celebration
And I dreamed I saw the bomber death planes
Riding shotgun in the sky,
Turning into butterflies
Above our nation
We are stardust, we are golden
We are caught in the devils bargain
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden”

Songwriters: Joni Mitchell

Woodstock lyrics © Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC, Crazy Crow Music / Siquomb Music Publishing

From the album Déjà Vu by Crosby, Stills & Nash

Released: 1970

Ed

Good lyrics, not my taste in music though.

How is this a ‘watering down, until everything looks the same?’

Therefore I propose a new order called “The Order of the Sacred Earth.” Its members may come from any and all life-styles, married, single, celibate, gay, straight and from any and all occupations so long as their work mirrored the values of honoring and supporting the Earth and her creatures. Blue collar and white collar workers would be welcomed. People of all religious traditions and none would be welcome.

Some of those life styles mentioned above would not be welcome in our church because of sin. This ‘order of the scared earth’ is inclusive of all people who want to work toward the goals of honoring and protecting the earth and animals, not like a religion as we practise, but more of a spiritual movement, which seems much more freeing.

 

[edwest2]

This has all been said before. False freedoms have been preached before. The earth is not sacred. It is a part of Creation and man should tend it and care about it, but it ignores the center of it all, God. People from all walks of life participate in keeping our day to day lives going, regardless of who they are. Some may not want to participate or are just lazy. That is just the reality.

I have studied “alternative lifestyles,” environmentalists and those who protect wildlife. However, money can easily override any desire to protect anything.

Ed

 

[simpleas]

This has all been said before. False freedoms have been preached before. The earth is not sacred. It is a part of Creation and man should tend it and care about it, but it ignores the center of it all, God. People from all walks of life participate in keeping our day to day lives going, regardless of who they are. Some may not want to participate or are just lazy. That is just the reality.

I have studied “alternative lifestyles,” environmentalists and those who protect wildlife. However, money can easily override any desire to protect anything.

Ed

The earth is not sacred.

I’m not sure about that, since Catholicism includes the whole of creation giving God praise and thanks, God blesses all creation and makes it holy.

Thanks.

 

[grannymh]

It is definitely time for a New Spiritual Order. However, technically, one cannot have anything Spiritual without a Religious element. This is self evident from the legends of the ancient peoples.

 

[simpleas]

It is definitely time for a New Spiritual Order. However, technically, one cannot have anything Spiritual without a Religious element. This is self evident from the legends of the ancient peoples.

Thinking on this, at one time there was no religion, maybe…?

So a person can, and very much is spiritual if they believe in a spiritual creator. They can communicate with their creator in various ways, and religion may not be part of that communication.

 

[seanman611]

Spong’s made a career out of taking the extreme theological liberalism of roughly (early)1800s to 1960ish and trying to repackage it as some new idea. The ideas he puts a new spin on were pretty much utterly destroyed by the 1980s by most mainstream theologians/philosophers/historians.

 

[grannymh]

Thinking on this, at one time there was no religion, maybe…?

So a person can, and very much is spiritual if they believe in a spiritual creator. They can communicate with their creator in various ways, and religion may not be part of that communication.

Some form of religion is usually a response to the supernatural. Maybe the Shaman is an example.

I have met two persons who said they were spiritual, but not religious. From knowing their good works, my guess is that their spirituality was based on higher principles without the necessity of a belief in a real God.

When I think about “spiritual” I connect it to the supernatural which is ultimately God. This is because “spiritual” is so very different from our material world.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Each human person is worthy of profound respect. Genesis 1: 27.

 

[simpleas]

The write up on the website is by the author Matthew Fox :

This lesson from history is one reason I insist that an Order today ought to be spiritual and not religious, that it should owe no allegiance to any particular religious hierarchy or headquarters but should pick up the sign of our times which is the reality that human consciousness is outpacing religious institutions and that the very essence of religion, spirituality, is what needs to be preserved at its best and carried on. And this is what the Order of the Sacred Earth would be about surely. And this would happen on a post-denominational plane, in a time of deep ecumenism and interfaith and interspirituality. This sense of interfaith would also lie at the heart of the new Order. What unites the members is not their particular religious affiliation or identity (or lack thereof), but their common vow to protect Mother Earth and her creatures, humans included. One’s allegiance will be to that reality and that shared value and that criterion that will become the litmus test for being a participating member of said community or Order. Agnostics and atheists I could see as part of the movement.

I’m wondering in what way is religion needed in peoples lives. A lot of people no longer attend churches, free thinking for the individual seems to have become stronger over the years.
Declaring oneself as a believer in a higher power, which can be God for some, or the universe for others, but not declaring that one is subject to the hierarchy, which Fox seems to be talking about.

 

[grannymh]

The write up on the website is by the author Matthew Fox :

I’m wondering in what way is religion needed in peoples lives. A lot of people no longer attend churches, free thinking for the individual seems to have become stronger over the years.
Declaring oneself as a believer in a higher power, which can be God for some, or the universe for others, but not declaring that one is subject to the hierarchy, which Fox seems to be talking about.

I am old enough to know about the early Rev. Matthew Fox. I am not sure when he left the Catholic Priesthood. A brief look at the quoted stuff from him scares …out of me.

 

[grannymh]

The write up on the website is by the author Matthew Fox :

I’m wondering in what way is religion needed in peoples lives. A lot of people no longer attend churches, free thinking for the individual seems to have become stronger over the years.
Declaring oneself as a believer in a higher power, which can be God for some, or the universe for others, but not declaring that one is subject to the hierarchy, which Fox seems to be talking about.

I live in a geographic area where attending every Cubs baseball game is a religion. Therefore, I must ask what kind of religion and what is the goal of the religion which you are wondering about. Besides another World Series win?

You did give the example that "A lot of people no longer attend churches…