Time For A Poll

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Now that the SSPX has made it clear they do not share Bishop Williamsons views on the Holocaust and has relieved him of his duties, Rome has denounced them, and the Jews have accepted the Church’s reply, do you join BXVI in welcoming them back, without reservation ?
 
I_Believe said:
Now that the SSPX has made it clear they do not share Bishop Williamsons views on the Holocaust and has relieved him of his duties, Rome has denounced them, and the Jews have accepted the Church’s reply, do you join BXVI in welcoming them back, without reservation ?
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Only when they fully embrace some of the errors contained in the Syllabus of Pius IX. Until the SSPX accepts and embraces those errors that have been formally condemned by the Church (especially #'s 15, 77 and 79) they are not welcome into the Church of Luv.
 
Yours_Truly said:
Only when they fully embrace some of the errors contained in the Syllabus of Pius IX. Until the SSPX accepts and embraces those errors that have been formally condemned by the Church (especially #'s 15, 77 and 79) they are not welcome into the Church of Luv.
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Humor noted, but do you believe the Society will face the same internal issues as the Transalpine Redemptorists ?
 
I_Believe said:
Now that the SSPX has made it clear they do not share Bishop Williamsons views on the Holocaust and has relieved him of his duties, Rome has denounced them, and the Jews have accepted the Church’s reply, do you join BXVI in welcoming them back, without reservation ?
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I supported them them without reservation from the start.
 
I think those that want to integrate back into the Church will be back by Easter. However, there are a lot of those who are still hostile with Rome over, and I can expect splinter groups to form, but the bulk of SSPX will probably be regularized with minimal issue. OF course the media will jump on it and attack the idea that the Church should welcome back well traditional trinitarian, orthodox catholics back into the Church (gasp!). The Father McBriens of the world are going to pass out in shock! And the media is going to mourn the death of the “Spirit of Vatican II” which you know had resulted into such a deep faith, full of vocations.
 
I_Believe said:
Humor noted, but do you believe the Society will face the same internal issues as the Transalpine Redemptorists ?
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There will probably be some, but I don’t think too much. It will probably depend on how the negotiations play out. I don’t think there will be too much of a rift over an initial agreement with negotiations to follow; but if a blanket acceptance of Vatican II is required, we could see some problems.

I have a lot of trust in the Holy Ghost and do believe all will work out in the end. There is no doubt that the SSPX has been used by God, as was St. Athanaius in his day, to preserve the true faith during the great apostasy of the past 40 years. The crisis is now coming to a gradual close. The devil knows his time is short and will certainly unleash all hell against the negotiations, but in the end God, and our Blessed mother, are stronger that the devil. He is only permited to do what God allows; and I think his time is about up. Maybe a few more years and we will see the real New Springtime aspredicted by many of the saints - and I can’t wait! This crisis has worn me out.
 
I’m in communion with whomever the Holy Father tells me I’m in communion. At any rate, the Holy See itself seems to have some reservations (acceptance of VII, the OF, etc.). My reservations would have to be the same as the Holy See’s.
 
Yours_Truly said:
Only when they fully embrace some of the errors contained in the Syllabus of Pius IX. Until the SSPX accepts and embraces those errors that have been formally condemned by the Church (especially #'s 15, 77 and 79) they are not welcome into the Church of Luv.
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I prefer the judgment and intepretation of great Catholics of the time the Syllabus was issued over recent folk willing to hazard schism.
John Henry Newman:
The Syllabus then has no dogmatic force; it addresses us, not in its separate portions, but as a whole, and is to be received from the Pope by an act of obedience, not of faith, that obedience being shown by having recourse to the original and authoritative documents, (Allocutions and the like,) to which the Syllabus pointedly refers. Moreover, when we turn to those documents, which are authoritative, we find the Syllabus cannot even be called an echo of the Apostolic Voice; for, in matters in which wording is so important, it is not an exact transcript of the words of the Pope, in its account of the errors condemned, just as would be natural in what is an index for reference.
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Wikipedia:
Félix Dupanloup, as bishop of Orléans, published a pamphlet in January 1865 (“La convention du 15 septembre et l’encyclique du 8 décembre” - “The September Convention and the Encyclical of December 8”) in which he interpreted the Syllabus in terms of thesis and antithesis. The Church, he said, condemned general propositions stated in terms of the ideal society, not in terms of what might be prudent or just at a particular time and place. The condemnation of absolute freedom of belief, worship, speech, and the press meant that teaching false ideas could not be an ideal. It did not mean that freedom of worship, speech, and the press were not good things as practiced in particular states. It was false to say that the Catholic Church should be disestablished everywhere; but it was not true to say that it should always be established. More than 600 bishops, including the Pope, thanked Dupanloup for this explanatory pamphlet.
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Yours_Truly said:
Only when they fully embrace some of the errors contained in the Syllabus of Pius IX. Until the SSPX accepts and embraces those errors that have been formally condemned by the Church (especially #'s 15, 77 and 79) they are not welcome into the Church of Luv.
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At the risk of sounding like a sycophant, that was awesome. 👍

And yes, in response to the poll, I support the decision without reservation. Obviously.
 
selylidne said:
I prefer the judgment and intepretation of great Catholics of the time the Syllabus was issued over recent folk willing to hazard schism.
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I’ll call your syllabus argument (re: dogmatic force) and raise you one Vatican II (also no dogmatic force).
 
Ottaviani said:
I thought the church finally got it right at Vatican II?
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Well, it all depends on your own personal interpretation of the term “right” in light of the various philosophies and hermeneutics of further, enlightened scriptural elaboration. All in a historical context, of course.

Or something like that.
 
Oh, I get it.

Wait no I don’t.

as was said once before from a relativist of some historical note: “what is truth?”
 
Extempore said:
I’ll call your syllabus argument (re: dogmatic force) and raise you one Vatican II (also no dogmatic force).
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What is this even supposed to mean? Firstly, “my” Syllabus argument had nothing to do with dogmatic force. It was that some of the points in the Syllabus most beloved of reactionaries are misinterpreted by them, as explained by other contemporary writings of the Pope and others. Secondly, how is Vatican II relevant to interpreting something that happened roughly a century beforehand?
 
selylidne said:
econdly, how is Vatican II relevant to interpreting something that happened roughly a century beforehand?
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By that reasoning, how is the Catholic Church relevant to explain the Christian faith?

Truth is unchanging, error is the denial of truth. Why is this so hard for some people?
 
selylidne said:
Secondly, how is Vatican II relevant to interpreting something that happened roughly a century beforehand?
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Because the Good Pope wanted to prevent this mess we’ve found ourselves in, that’s how.

And the only way out of it is the Gregorian Rite and sermons on Hell and the Rosary.
 
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