Time for married priests

[phil19034]

Consider the ideal type, the mature deacon. To enroll him in seminary for 4 years means pulling him out of diaconate ministry for 4 years, before he would return to service as a priest, when he might serve for not that many years. (I know deacons have some preparation already, but he would be commuting to seminary, able to devote much less time than the usual seminarian, so I suggested 4 years).

We have a deacon shortage now, too.

Just so you know… when a widowed deacon becomes a priest, he usually only attends one year in the Seminary. His time in the seminary for the diaconate and his actual ministry are typically considered the majority of his formation.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Please don’t take the entrance of evil into the clergy, as in secular society,

As a platform for the end of celibacy.

Paedophilia is incurable. Homosexuality is not reversible.

Not only is Cardinal Pell in court this coming week,
so is another notorious Priest in Victoria. Not Risdale. Yes, another one.
One perhaps a scapegoat, the other truly guilty and notoriously so.

I love that my Priests are celibate. That secular entire male / female dynamic is gone from interactions. Speaking as someone who recently returned to the Church, that is such a blessing.

It also retains the bar at a standard worthy of a representative of God on earth.

I see the Church as going through a purging. Evil is now being routed. A truly Holy Church again flows on to the congregation.

You can never make the case that marriage would have prevented this. Its just evil. As is Germany, as was Philadelphia, as is the ongoing evil being uncovered in my Diocese.
brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/54

If someone wanted to make a case for married clergy, this argument is not the way to go.

Do we advocate heterosexual marriage for homosexuals or for paedophiles as a fix?

 

[PaulfromIowa]

OP, you assert that ordaining heterosexual married men would prevent homosexual men from molesting children? How would that work?

 

[OraLabora]

The best marital advice I ever got when my marriage was in trouble, was not from a psychologist, but from a celibate Benedictine monk/priest. Thanks to him the marriage turned the corner and we’re still together.

I do agree that we should look at married priests, perhaps not as parish pastors, but as vicars, perhaps. The priests in my area are run fairly ragged trying to keep up. They’d dearly love the help.

But to think that married priests would solve the sexual abuse crisis is naive. Most pedophiles outside of the Catholic clergy (sports coaches, teachers, “funny uncles”, Protestant clergy, etc.), are married men. A deviant doesn’t cease to be a deviant just because he is married.

I’m not against married priests, in fact I’m rather in favour. But if we have married priests, it should be for the right reasons.

 

[joeybaggz]

I will start by saying that I’m not completely opposed to the idea of married priests in the Latin Church. I’ve always thought that allowing married men who meet very specific criteria (i.e. at least ten years as deacon, graduate degree in theology or canon law, permission and full support of wife, etc…) could possibly be ordained and serve in some kind of “auxiliary” capacity to assist pastors, though such men would be ineligible to serve as pastors themselves. These priests, while retaining their own employment, could be available to offer at least one Mass for each Sunday and holy day, and to hear confessions for one or two hours each week. They could of course also assist with other sacraments with permission of their pastor, and perhaps also serve as part-time chaplains at hospitals, schools and other organizations. I’m not holding my breath or saying that this should definitely happen, but I’m not opposed to it.
.

Like another poster, I like this idea. Married men who serve as permanent deacons, once their children are grown and on their own, might serve very well as “circuit riders” for the local bishop; filling in where needed. That such men would be ineligible to serve as pastors is also a good idea. In such a case, as with the rule for married deacons, if a wife predeceases the husband, he is not free to remarry. And any married priest in this consideration who subsequently divorces his wife, would be defrocked. Like Fuerza said, I’m not holding my breath, but maybe the Holy Spirit might agree??? Maybe??

Shalom

 

[pianistclare]

Celibacy does not cause sexual disorders. Marriage does not cure sexual disorders.

Married priests are not the solution.

AMEN, a thousand time AMEN.

Watch the VIRTUS videos about who are the perpetrators of a majority of the abuses.
Abuses occur when there is no transparency. Abuses occur when people believe that their child is safe just by virtue of the office of the persons involved.
Abuses occur when people don’t watch or fail to report.
Abuses occur all over the place because evil will find a way.
Married priests will do very little to change those stats. Pervs are pervs. They are everywhere. We are doing a better job than ever before in prevention because children are also now aware if what is not acceptable and that they will be believed if they tell.
Sexual abuse is mostly about POWER, not necessarily perverse sex.

Take a hard look at some of the problems in churches with married pastors. Divided congregations, jealousy, corruption, all the problems their children are subjected to by being the pastor’s kid.

This is not a solution,
It is a disaster in the making.

 

[Warandpeace]

Allowing married priests might be solution to priests having girlfriends, or difficulties with sexual sin the range of normal. Surprisingly, I hear very little about priests struggling with celibacy because of an attraction to women. Not that it doesn’t happen …?

Anyway, allowing priests to get married might stop some of the stigmas of being a priest, gossip, etc. However, the divorce rate is rather high. Could be a source of scandal?

 

[pianistclare]

There are married men who abuse children.

Take the VIRTUS training and you will hear more stats that are mind boggling.
It’s not a “gay” problem. Most pedophiles consider themselves straight.

And yes, “marriage is not a fire extinguisher for sexually disordered men.”
(quotation credit: Xantippe)

 

[GEddie]

Allowing married priests might be solution to priests having girlfriends, or difficulties with sexual sin the range of normal. Surprisingly, I hear very little about priests struggling with celibacy because of an attraction to women. Not that it doesn’t happen …?

Anyway, allowing priests to get married might stop some of the stigmas of being a priest, gossip, etc. However, the divorce rate is rather high. Could be a source of scandal?

The change would be to bring married men into formation; not to allow priests to “get married.”

Ordination is a canonical bar to marriage.

And that is where the trouble lies. Once celibacy was removed, I’d expect many young men to leave or postpone formation in order to “find a wife,” because they could now become married priests, but not marry after ordination. Many of them would never return to formation.

So for one or more generations, the alleged “priest shortage” would get worse, not better.

ICXC NIKA

 

[commenter]

Allowing married priests might be solution to priests having girlfriends, or difficulties with sexual sin the range of normal. Surprisingly, I hear very little about priests struggling with celibacy because of an attraction to women. Not that it doesn’t happen …?

Anyway, allowing priests to get married might stop some of the stigmas of being a priest, gossip, etc. However, the divorce rate is rather high. Could be a source of scandal?

Historically, bending the celibacy rules with adult women was an occasional problem. One thing that may reduce it is the fact that boys rarely enter the seminary in 9th grade nowadays. They generally have finished college. They had the opportunity to sift through the possible marriage option before seminary. If they had any inkling that they could not make it through celibacy, they likely don’t set out on that road.

This is very different from the boys I grew up with, who entered sem very young, and never adequately explored other options, as they were discouraged from dating. Some of them worked out well in priesthood, but many finished their “growing up” after ordination.

 

[commenter]

The change would be to bring married men into formation; not to allow priests to “get married.”

Ordination is a canonical bar to marriage.

And that is where the trouble lies. Once celibacy was removed, I’d expect many young men to leave or postpone formation in order to “find a wife,” because they could now become married priests, but not marry after ordination. Many of them would never return to formation.

So for one or more generations, the alleged “priest shortage” would get worse, not better.

ICXC NIKA

Does anyone know if this is true for Eastern Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox?

By the way, it may be much harder to “find a wife” than it used to be, especially if the man is very religious. In any event, I can’t imagine any diocese ordaining a man who is married less than 10 years, probably a lot more.

 

[phil19034]

Does anyone know if this is true for Eastern Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox?

By the way, it may be much harder to “find a wife” than it used to be, especially if the man is very religious. In any event, I can’t imagine any diocese ordaining a man who is married less than 10 years, probably a lot more.

Yes. Eastern Catholic and Easter Orthodox priests are not allowed to get married.

They must be married before becoming a Deacon.

This is also why widowed Deacons cannot remarry (unless they have little children).

The only way to become a married priest is to be married BEFORE you get ordained.

Ordained men cannot marry.

God Bless!

 

[jeannetherese]

For years I’ve defended clergical celibacy.

I spent a good many years celibate myself and I know that there are times it’s difficult, but it’s not at all impossible for a healthy adult male to be celibate. At least it wasn’t so horrible, etc., for me.

But reading on the recent Munich boys choir, and the ongoing, ongoing, ongoing----neverending ongoing—story about priestly sexual abuse----well, I’m starting to wonder if married priests aren’t such a bad idea.
.

Your argument seems to be suggesting that women need to have sex with men so that men will not rape children. Is this your position vis-a-vis sex and marriage, or am I misreading the argument?
Would this logic apply to all sexually mature men, (married, single( or only to unmarried priests?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

In my time, as a boy I heard jokes about “Chester the Molester” and such, and felt able to protect myself from sexually predatory males. The whole concern was protecting females; the predation upon males was a joke topic, and certainly any robust boy could push away the flamers and pansies.

Unfortunately, this attitude probably caused a lot of the boys who were victimized to hide it from others or even bury it in their psyche and deny to themselves it ever happened, rather than have other males look down on them because they weren’t “man enough” to “push away” the skilled predator who may have groomed them for a long time before moving in to take advantage.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Anyway, allowing priests to get married might stop some of the stigmas of being a priest, gossip, etc. However, the divorce rate is rather high. Could be a source of scandal?

I can see some advantages to having married priests, such as removing some of the burdens of loneliness and celibacy that single priests sometimes feel, and perhaps encouraging more men to join the priesthood since they won’t have to give up the benefits of marriage.

However, if you have married priests, in addition to the priest’s wife and family taking some of his time away from his parishioners, you are going to end up having some divorced priests, and some priests whose children become an issue by behaving badly, and money issues with supporting a family along with just the priest, and concerns about priests who have 12 children to support as opposed to just 1, and basically every issue that crops up in regular marriages, including those of Protestant ministers. The difference being that in many Protestant sects, the congregation has some say in whether to keep the minister or get a different one, whereas Catholics are supposed to rely on the bishop to assign them priests and usually don’t get much say.

There is also the issue someone mentioned about clergy wanting to remarry if their wife should die. We went through this some decades ago with the first deacon to serve at my childhood parish. The deacon had a wife who was ill with a variety of physical and mental diseases, also a couple of school age kids. His wife finally died and the deacon soon became attached to a lady in the parish. From what I heard, he was denied the dispensation to remarry, so he quit being a deacon in order to get married. I can see priests doing the same. And let’s not even bring up the situation where a priest’s wife might walk out on him and get a divorce and then the priest meets someone and wishes to remarry.

I am sure all of these issues could be addressed by a patient Church and congregation, but I’m just saying that if you are going to have married priests you need to be prepared to face all these situations. Looking at the expectations many Catholics seem to have of their priests already, I’m not sure if these Catholics are ready to deal with a priest who may not be blessed with a smooth, saintly married and family life.

 

[Operations66]

I don’t want a married priest, sorry. He will be dedicated first to his earthly family instead of to
God. You cannot serve two masters.

Priests are targeted by Satan. He sends demons and evil thoughts against them to tempt them to fall into horrendous sexual sin. They need better spiritual protection. Better screening is good but not enough.

 

[Markie_Boy]

There is strong scriptural support for married clergy in 1 Timothy ch: 3, so strong if read literally could be taken that you can’t be a bishop or deacon if you are not married. Now I don’t take it that way, but just for reference that’s what it is.

Now what does Paul say in 1 Cor 7:2!!!

“But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.”

That pretty much answers things. To avoid sexual temptation - have a spouse!

If we follow scripture there can be, and should be, a married clergy. There is in Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox already. Look at Old Testament priests that offered sacrifice. These priests were almost always married and had children. In fact, they needed to have children to perpetuate the priesthood, as only the sons of Aaron could be priests.

Top it off - the idea of celibate clergy was not made for centuries after the early Church. There are probably tons of married men that were clergy for centuries. The more I look at it, the more of a wrong turn it looks like.

The Church was a thousand years old before it definitively took a stand in favor of celibacy in the twelfth century at the Second Lateran Council held in 1139, when a rule was approved forbidding priests to marry. What followed?? One of the darkest periods of Church history - coincidence?

Will it fix the problem of messed up people, no. Is it a step in the right direction - God’s Word says so.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Ever heard of Eastern Catholics? I know a few married priests.

 

[FJBSJ]

I agree with all the points the OP made. However, we must consider the implications of allowing marriage for priests.

The Catholic Church would be admitting 2000 years of Saints, Ecumenical Councils and so on would have been incorrect.

St. Thomas Aquinas’ help from angels to protect his chastity would be viewed differently. He would still be very virtuous for repelling a harlot but there must be considerations if he would have been allowed to marry.

I believe there is a synthesis of heavy influences of Catholic Priesthood and minor influences of Protestant Ministry that will be acceptable. The only question would be whether the Magisterium would accept this.

 

[FJBSJ]

In my opinion, it is completely OK for the Catholic Church to admit it incorrectly handled some Theology in the past. All men are fallible creatures. The Greatness of the Catholic Church would come in admission of incorrectness (not guilt) and acceptance of a Theology that values all of Humanity in Equality.